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Author Topic: Harvey W  (Read 376 times)

Rob C

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Harvey W
« on: February 25, 2020, 03:04:09 pm »

I wondered why he hadn't yet made it to the bright, informed pages of The Coffee Corner?

Rob

RSL

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2020, 03:20:47 pm »

Maybe there's a Coffee Corner I don't know about, Rob.
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faberryman

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2020, 03:39:50 pm »

I wondered why he hadn't yet made it to the bright, informed pages of The Coffee Corner?
Probably because there is no disagreement that he is a scumbag.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 03:54:12 pm »

There was a similar case a few years ago in Toronto.
The accused was Gian Ghomeshi, a TV talk show guy who was charged with several cases of sexual assault and choking.
This dude was bad, the case was strong, and the trial outcome seemed quite straightforward, except two things happened.
He hired a first-class female lawyer and his not so bright victims embellished their accusations with quite a few lies, and a lot of conspiring phone calls and emails. As a result of their lies, he was fully acquitted.

For the non Canadians, below is a wikipedia link describing this case.

So if any lessons can be drawn from this case, it would be that there are some men guilty of such predatory behaviour, but also willing women to be attracted by such men, and some of those women lie more than the accused men.

Quote
In late 2014, Canadian radio host Jian Ghomeshi was arrested and charged with four counts of sexual assault, and one count of overcoming resistance by choking, in relation to three complainants. He was charged with three additional counts related to three more women on January 8, 2015. On October 1, 2015, Ghomeshi pleaded not guilty to one count of choking and four counts of sexual assault. The trial began on February 1, 2016. He was acquitted of all five charges on March 24, 2016.
...
Immediately after the verdict, supporters of the women expressed their disdain for the judge's ruling. They argued he was blaming the victims for not conforming to stereotypes of how women should behave, and that this could dissuade other women from coming forward in the future. Tom Mulcair, then head of the NDP party, tweeted that he believed the alleged survivors and critiqued the Canadian legal system. Other Canadian celebrities and activists voiced similar opinions. Andrew Burke, an associate professor of cultural studies at the University of Winnipeg, wrote "That was a total masterclass in misogynist, arrogant windbaggery just now from Judge Horkins." Outside the courtroom, "dozens" of protesters voiced their support for the women, shouting "Ghomeshi guilty". Ghomeshi's sister also read a short statement expressing relief about the verdict and criticizing the lack of "due process" up to this point.

Toronto lawyer Jonathan Rosenthal, however, stated: "It's a very bad case for the victims' rights movement to be jumping up and screaming about. It's atypical: This is a case where, bottom line, the complainants all lied." The case was also atypical in that the police solicited victims to come forward, and some were very active with media interviews (DeCoutere conducted 19 herself) which were used against them in cross examination. The complainants were also in an environment with supporters saying victims must be believed. This perceived solidarity led to two of the complainants exchanging more than 5,000 messages before the trial. The potential for this to be seen as collusion led to the Crown abandoning an application to make "similar fact" case which tied the three complaints together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Jian_Ghomeshi
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 07:16:55 pm by LesPalenik »
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Rob C

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 06:20:53 pm »

Probably because there is no disagreement that he is a scumbag.

What does any one of us know, personally, about the circumstances of any of this mess?

Rob C

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 06:23:56 pm »

Maybe there's a Coffee Corner I don't know about, Rob.

If there is, and I find it, I shall let you know!

:-)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2020, 05:47:52 am »

... there are some men guilty of such predatory behaviour, but also willing women to be attracted by such men, and some of those women lie more than the accused men...

Indeed.

Especially in Hollywood. Those who slept their way to the top are now ashamed to admit how they got there and prefer to play a victim. Those who tried to sleep their way to the top, but didn't succeed, want their money back. It takes two to tango.

Rob C

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2020, 06:13:57 am »

Indeed.

Especially in Hollywood. Those who slept their way to the top are now ashamed to admit how they got there and prefer to play a victim. Those who tried to sleep their way to the top, but didn't succeed, want their money back. It takes two to tango.

To your possible surprise, I agree with you 100%.

Had we the desire and/or energy, I think many of us in photography could have had a new lay every day and/or night. And the strange thing few today will get: not even always because of possible work advantages. So why? Because as I have repeatedly said, there was a magic abroad during those 60s and 70s; people did things because they just wanted to do certain things, and that was the women as much as the guys. Unless you have reached a certain age, you will not see that we have recently entered into a new age of Puritanism and "celebrated" victimhood: it was not like this thirty or forty years ago, not remotely: feminism was actually enjoying its new freedoms of the pill etc. and making the very most of it all.

My personal take is this: it worked for the pretty people, but the less than attractive still found themselves on the shelf, pills or no pills. That discovery quickly led to fury, the sense of having been cheated by a movement they supported, and the perverted sense of feminism that some espouse today. That fury of the woman scorned did not abate: it has become worse because it's now out there and public on social media, where I suppose everyone you know knows if you are or are not really scoring.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 09:10:01 am by Rob C »
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RSL

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2020, 07:01:42 am »

Well said, Rob.

The same thing was happening in the military during those years. I told the story in my essay "Women in the Armed Forces and Women in Combat" We've been pretending that the girls can become the equivalent of infantry grunts with no associated problems. I was there. I saw the results. Happily I was retired before it got this bad in the Air Force. (a paragraph from my essay):

"Then there was the USS Arcadia, stationed in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm, and dubbed “the love boat” when it was discovered that ten percent of its women had become pregnant and had to be evacuated. And the USS Eisenhower, a nuclear aircraft carrier about to leave for the Adriatic Sea with a crew of 4,919 sailors to patrol the no-fly zone over Bosnia. As the ship was about to sail it was discovered that 24 “sailors” were pregnant. Then, once the ship got on station, 15 more “sailors” became pregnant and had to be evacuated."

PC folks try to pretend there's no difference between boys and the girls, and that sex is never a problem when you mix boys and girls. It's a kind of blindness that exceeds reason.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 08:05:10 am by RSL »
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Rob C

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Re: Harvey W
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 09:28:26 am »

Well said, Rob.

The same thing was happening in the military during those years. I told the story in my essay "Women in the Armed Forces and Women in Combat" We've been pretending that the girls can become the equivalent of infantry grunts with no associated problems. I was there. I saw the results. Happily I was retired before it got this bad in the Air Force. (a paragraph from my essay):

"Then there was the USS Arcadia, stationed in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm, and dubbed “the love boat” when it was discovered that ten percent of its women had become pregnant and had to be evacuated. And the USS Eisenhower, a nuclear aircraft carrier about to leave for the Adriatic Sea with a crew of 4,919 sailors to patrol the no-fly zone over Bosnia. As the ship was about to sail it was discovered that 24 “sailors” were pregnant. Then, once the ship got on station, 15 more “sailors” became pregnant and had to be evacuated."

PC folks try to pretend there's no difference between boys and the girls, and that sex is never a problem when you mix boys and girls. It's a kind of blindness that exceeds reason.

Those make for interesting percentages, Russ.

They lead me to wonder about the fact that I have not yet heard of one of the Harvey ladies claiming to have become pregnant during these forced marches into the land of Eros. The percentages should have made at least one of them that way, and if not, then I can only guess that they came to the business meetings (!) well prepared. Either they did, or Harvey did, but I wonder at his ability to don a condom before the lady knocks on the door and manage not to have it roll right off again before his little friend gets really, really interested in the proceedings. Must be the Hollywood magic or "those blue or grey pills that men take" as I have heard it coyly described by the female advertising voice on WLWL Beach Radio out of Rockingham, N. Carolina. (I won't supply a musical link today because I don't want to upset Slobodan so near lunchtime.)

We really should have demanded a smoking gun, and not just a guess on likelihoods.

Sex equality is a chameleon.
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