Phase One Digital Backs for Hasselblad H4X or H5X

[The View]

I'm in the market for an MF camera and am very well examining my options.

One option I am currently researching is to pair a Hasselblad H4X or H5X with a Phase One back.

The only thing is that there seem to be almost no P1 backs for Hasselblad on the used back market. They all say "for Phase One" or, in some cases "For Mamiya"

Can a P1 back for P1 be altered to fit Hasselblad or is this a pointlessly expensive thing to do for used back? I am looking at full frame backs only, P65+ or IQ160.

[Joe Towner]

It is what it is, there is no swapping the mount on a completed back.  The best advise is to keep looking & let the dealers in your country know you're looking.

[Endeavour]

I dont think you can change the mount, so you're going to have to find a back with an H mount. They do come up.

You'll be happy once you do find one though - H cameras are so much better in the hand (in my opinion) than an XF/DF body

[Doug Peterson]

For older backs we have a variety of H-mount units on our digital back outlet.

With more recent backs we often/usually have refurbished or demo units in H mount on our main refurbished digital backs page.

If someone is asking my advice I tell them that Hasselblad isn't investing in the H platform, so I don't think you should either. But if someone is asking for my advice it is simple: try each platform for at least a short bit to see which one you like. Especially when it comes to look and feel  – "ergonomics" is a fancy way of saying "feels good (or not) to me" – there is simply no substitute for having one in hand and playing around to see what you like and what you don't. If you're in or traveling to NYC, LA, or DC, we can arrange for you to try one out anytime you'd like, no costs. If you're elsewhere in the USA we can arrange to ship one to you as a rental, with the cost of rental counted toward purchase.

[BFD]

I'm in the market for an MF camera and am very well examining my options.

One option I am currently researching is to pair a Hasselblad H4X or H5X with a Phase One back.

The only thing is that there seem to be almost no P1 backs for Hasselblad on the used back market. They all say "for Phase One" or, in some cases "For Mamiya"

Can a P1 back for P1 be altered to fit Hasselblad or is this a pointlessly expensive thing to do for used back? I am looking at full frame backs only, P65+ or IQ160.

You should be able to find something as most pros almost all used H bodies with P1 backs up through the IQ3 line. With the IQ4, Phase One stopped making backs to fit other platforms. IQ3 backs seem a plenty right now on the used market. One thing that you can check on a used Phase One back is is if it has a value added warranty (which most do), the value added warranty usually has 1 free mount swap included with it. So you could find a used IQ3 with a Mamiya mount and if it still has its mount swap, Phase will swap it for an H mount at no charge. Value added warranties are transferrable with the back so you don't need to be the original owner. Checking is as easy as opening a case with Phase One and asking them and they usually reply very quickly if you are eligible for the free mount swap.

[The View]

You should be able to find something as most pros almost all used H bodies with P1 backs up through the IQ3 line. With the IQ4, Phase One stopped making backs to fit other platforms. IQ3 backs seem a plenty right now on the used market. One thing that you can check on a used Phase One back is is if it has a value added warranty (which most do), the value added warranty usually has 1 free mount swap included with it. So you could find a used IQ3 with a Mamiya mount and if it still has its mount swap, Phase will swap it for an H mount at no charge. Value added warranties are transferrable with the back so you don't need to be the original owner. Checking is as easy as opening a case with Phase One and asking them and they usually reply very quickly if you are eligible for the free mount swap.

The IQ 160 looks nice. 148 000 actuations is a bit high, but I guess it will work (a friend of mine has a P65+ with 700 000+ actuations).

But there doesn't seem to be any kind of warranty.

If only I could find a well priced H5X or H6X.

[The View]

You should be able to find something as most pros almost all used H bodies with P1 backs up through the IQ3 line. With the IQ4, Phase One stopped making backs to fit other platforms. IQ3 backs seem a plenty right now on the used market. One thing that you can check on a used Phase One back is is if it has a value added warranty (which most do), the value added warranty usually has 1 free mount swap included with it. So you could find a used IQ3 with a Mamiya mount and if it still has its mount swap, Phase will swap it for an H mount at no charge. Value added warranties are transferrable with the back so you don't need to be the original owner. Checking is as easy as opening a case with Phase One and asking them and they usually reply very quickly if you are eligible for the free mount swap.

Thank you for the tip with the value-added warranty.

I'm taking this slow as I'm currently in a big marketing phase and have little time to test out gear, but I decided I had to actually hold in my hands what I'm buying and not just reason and buy. So this will take longer than planned, but will  definitely lead to the better results.

Anybody I asked recommended I should forget about Hasselblad backs, especially the outdated H4D and H5d backs with their dinosaur FW800 connection. There also seems to be a feeling of passionate dislike and even hate towards the Focus software. That software alone, I think, made many professionals not consider a Hasselblad back.

[BobShaw]

Anybody I asked recommended I should forget about Hasselblad backs, especially the outdated H4D and H5d backs with their dinosaur FW800 connection. There also seems to be a feeling of passionate dislike and even hate towards the Focus software. That software alone, I think, made many professionals not consider a Hasselblad back.

Well my first Medium Format was Mamiya AFD and then a Phase back on an H1. I loved the improvement in the camera and lenses but hated the back. It also ate batteries and needed its own. I then went to the H3D and regard the integrated back as a much better solution. If you buy an H4D or H5D you won't be disappointed. Firewire is no problem if you use a Mac. If you use a PC then you have other problems. I quite like Phocus. Its ability to pull up shadows and do camera colour calibration after the event are pretty useful. Having said that, the X1D is a newer, smaller, lighter, better camera for less money, so I sold my H4D and now enjoy that. You can use the HC lenses until you bite the bullet and upgrade to XCD.

[Conner999]

+1 to Bob's comments above. The single battery, being in the grip also lasts a long time in the cold as your hand keeps it warm. 

Lots of CPO or used retail kits avail at nice prices, and you can use all HC/D lenses  and the Hassy HTS on an X1D/II or Fuji GFX series. Gives you a lower-cost migration path to a 2nd or different body.

We use a GFX alongside our H5D as a 2nd/backup body and using it with our HC/D lenses (with leaf or focal plane shutter at the flick of a button) is simplicity itself. The adapter controls aperture and passes all EXIF info to C1.

The single unit also has the added benefit that if something starts acting wonky, you don't have two manufacturers pointing at each other as the source of the issue.

[epines]

Agreed about the Hasselblad system and Phocus. I've used an H5D-50 for years (CCD). The files are gorgeous, the camera is reliable and ergonomic, the lenses are great. I think the 37x49mm sensor is just about ideal. The back even has a simple battery adapter for use on tech cameras. Firewire tethering is easy and solid with a Thunderbold-to-Firewire adapter. Phocus produces lovely, natural color and is reliable for tethering. It's a good system.

[rogerxnz]

That is not my experience, in effect. Although you probably cannot change the mount on a particular back, PhaseOne operates a swap system subject to availability. So, about three years ago, I swapped an IQ180 back in M mount for one in Hasselblad V mount for a fee that I cannot recall but probably around £2,000.

The interesting thing is that the M mount back had about 30,000 uses but the V one had less than 2,000. So, I was very happy!
Roger

It is what it is, there is no swapping the mount on a completed back.  The best advise is to keep looking & let the dealers in your country know you're looking.

[Joe Towner]

That is not my experience, in effect. Although you probably cannot change the mount on a particular back, PhaseOne operates a swap system subject to availability. So, about three years ago, I swapped an IQ180 back in M mount for one in Hasselblad V mount for a fee that I cannot recall but probably around £2,000.

The interesting thing is that the M mount back had about 30,000 uses but the V one had less than 2,000. So, I was very happy!
Roger

You are mis-reading the topic. There is no way to take a M back and hack it to a H back. You did a swap with a dealer, which may be better explained as a trading in your M back on the purchase of a used V mount back.  It's not like the really old backs that used adapter plates - like the Sinar's.

-Joe

[rogerxnz]

No, Joe, if you read my second sentence, I am agreeing with you, that you cannot change the mount on a particular back. My back swap was arranged with PhaseOne and was not a swap arranged within a dealer's stock. From memory, the back had been repossessed by a UK finance company and I don't recall a dealer being involved.

So, the OP should check with PhaseOne whether, if he buys a back with a mount he does not want, PhaseOne will swap the back for one with the mount he does want.
Roger

You are mis-reading the topic. There is no way to take a M back and hack it to a H back. You did a swap with a dealer, which may be better explained as a trading in your M back on the purchase of a used V mount back.  It's not like the really old backs that used adapter plates - like the Sinar's.

-Joe

[Steve Hendrix]

No, Joe, if you read my second sentence, I am agreeing with you, that you cannot change the mount on a particular back. My back swap was arranged with PhaseOne and was not a swap arranged within a dealer's stock. From memory, the back had been repossessed by a UK finance company and I don't recall a dealer being involved.

So, the OP should check with PhaseOne whether, if he buys a back with a mount he does not want, PhaseOne will swap the back for one with the mount he does want.
Roger

It is challenging to swap platforms with an investment into an older digital back. If there is availability, this can be ordered thorugh a Phase One dealer for $3,000 USD. But given the cost of older backs (like an IQ160, which may go for $6k - $7k - ish), a $3,000 mount swap doesn't make sense. Alternatively, you could swap with an end user or dealer, but still would be tough to do so affordably on an older back like that. And then you have the added cost of the camera.

You have not stated why you are pursuing a Hasselblad H_X Camera vs a Phase One XF Camera? Before the XF, we had many hybrid users; those who would mix and match a Phase One digital back with a Hasselblad H camera. But with the launch of the Phase One XF, and with the newer Schneider lenses, the number of those who wanted an H camera with a Phase One back declined dramatically.

I still feel I may have an ergonomic preference for the H camera (the way it feels), but in most every other way, I prefer the XF. The fact that it has a substantial amount of technical integration with the Phase One backs is another important factor. Want to do something as simple as remotely control the settings of the camera? Don't put the Phase One back on an H camera then.


Steve Hendrix/CI

[G_Allen]

You have not stated why you are pursuing a Hasselblad H_X Camera vs a Phase One XF Camera?

I find the shutter lag using the leaf shutter with the XF/Schneider lenses unacceptable. Very slow compared to the H series. This is why I decided to stick with the H5x/P1 backs, but I'm at the end of the line with the IQ3100.

[Steve Hendrix]

I find the shutter lag using the leaf shutter with the XF/Schneider lenses unacceptable. Very slow compared to the H series. This is why I decided to stick with the H5x/P1 backs, but I'm at the end of the line with the IQ3100.

Well there you go. Everyone has subjective preferences and reasons. Mr. Viewfinder may have different preferences.

Cameras are complex devices, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. In Greg's case, for critical response for timing, thise split seconds can matter. For others, an integrated battery grip matters, for others, automated focus stacking matters, a built-in Profoto trigger matters, remote control of shutter speed/aperture matters, etc.

The point is that a camera is not a single feature. A camera is a multitude of features and the variance is in the user that requires the set of features a particular camera offers.


Steve Hendrix/CI

[Joe Towner]

No, Joe, if you read my second sentence, I am agreeing with you, that you cannot change the mount on a particular back. My back swap was arranged with PhaseOne and was not a swap arranged within a dealer's stock. From memory, the back had been repossessed by a UK finance company and I don't recall a dealer being involved.

So, the OP should check with PhaseOne whether, if he buys a back with a mount he does not want, PhaseOne will swap the back for one with the mount he does want.
Roger

Roger, PhaseOne sells to dealers, not direct to consumers.  In the USA there are dealers like Steve and Doug who are much better able to assist folks. They keep in contact with their customers & know who may be looking for that extra assistance to upgrade their gear. PhaseOne will refer The View to a dealer who can help, as I can't imagine they'd have 60mp CCD backs sitting around for anything other than testing/QA purposes. Hence my original reply to this thread.

Buying the wrong back to have it as a trade in is a horrible idea. With CCD backs, it is guaranteed to cost thousands of dollars more than buying the right mount to start with.

-Joe

[Stngoldberg]

I have an H5X which I use with an H mount IQ1-100 back; also enjoy using the back with my Arca rm3di.
IMHO, the images from these two bodies (along with the incredible HC lenses and Rodie and Schneider lenses on the tech camera) are magical.
My dealer advised me that there isn’t a path for an upgrade to an IQ3-100 nor an IQ4-150, but I am thrilled with what I have and thrilled with the images
Stanley