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Author Topic: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one  (Read 551 times)

borzamircea

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X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« on: February 08, 2020, 09:35:55 am »

Hello all,

I wanted to ask for opinions on this matter on the LuLa forums as well. Here is my story: I currently own a Phase one XF with an 80 mm and IQ 140 digital back and a Profoto B10. I am happy with the results I get from the old back in the studio, but the Hasselblad X1D has intrigued me since it's launch.

The ability to still do studio work with the leaf shutter lenses and the smaller size means I could use it for landscapes and travel as well.

The idea of an EVF is so-so, as I did not like it when trying a Nikon Z6 in a store (It's like I was able to see the refresh rate of the screen and it bothered me).

I would like to try the X1D to either complement/replace the system I own. Before the Phase I worked with a Hasselblad H5D40 and an 80 mm.

My questions and concerns are
- get a used X1D or an X1D mark II (are the differences, especially in the EVF worth it)
for the less than the price of the MKII I could gt an X1D and a 90 mm
- in order to use my Profoto lights I would need a nikon compatible profoto air remote
I would hate to sell the phase only to discover that I don’t get along with the X1d for whatever reason (most likely, in my mind now, would be the EVF).

My main concern is getting used to the EVF, and how does it perform in the studio ( using a modelling light to preview what would come out). - I think it does need getting used to.

I am very satisfied with the iq140 results, the A2 prints I get from my Epson p800 are gorgeous, however I am looking, as I said for a lighter companion/replacement if needed.  I wouldn’t want to sell the XF kit before, in order to fund the X1D, as I have invested a lot in it and in maintenance after I bought it (sensor cleaning) and crop focusing screen. I would lose a lot initial investment. I would prefer having them side by side and deciding after a period of time. I started looking into the X1D because it has LS lenses, as opposed to the fujis and the mf sensor in a small package.

I use both LR and C1, as we have other systems in the house.

I will eventually want to try out the X1D, but that will happen most likely in the near future, during a holiday, at the dealer in Budapest, as that is the closest location where I did find a hassy dealer.

Curious to know your experiences when switching to the X1D and the differences between the mk I and II. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Mircea
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md0724

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 03:12:38 pm »

I've been in a similar situation having shot a Credo 60 on an H1 for several years but recently acquired an X1D mk I to evaluate how it may fit for me. 

My impressions so far: I still prefer the look of the files from the Credo 60 and using Capture One over the X1D and Phocus. There is something about the Credo back and C1 that makes the colors and tonality just magical. That said, the X1D can also look really incredible when it's the right light or set of conditions and is so much more convenient to carry around. I mostly shoot landscape and urban scenes so if you are shooting strobe in a studio under controlled conditions perhaps the color and look differences are even closer. 

Some of the pluses for the X1D for me: the lenses are simply off the charts first class. They are naturally sharper than most anything for the H, but beyond that I think even a hair sharper and a more refined presence than a set of Schneider digitars I use on a tech camera which are already fantastically sharp and amazing lenses. All that while being very small, portable and AF. Overall I find the EVF to be more useful than a detriment. Being able to move focus points, zoom in 100%, 'see in the dark' for night photography and preview exposures are huge bonuses over a mirrored MF system. The blackout time is definitely a little annoying at times but I've shot plenty of portraits with it and I personally don't find it to be a deal breaker for composed, editorial style portraits. For fast moving fashion subjects it may be a different story and here is where the mk II may help out. Being able to shoot higher ISO with a CMOS sensor and the fact that the XCD lenses are extremely good wide open opens up a lot more situations to shooting over the Credo 60.

I went with the X1D mk I since the prices are very reasonable used and I didn't think the mk II changes were worth double the price. I honestly can't see much difference with the new EVF, the startup time is meaningless to me (Credo is easily as long or longer), and the other differences were negligible or not important to my workflow. With a used mk I and the new 45P lens you could get a starter system for not that much (in digital MF terms), play around with it and see if it's for you. 

I can't imagine ever selling my Credo as I think the files from it have a unique look and also because I can use it on a tech cam. But having the tiny X1D to throw in a bag when I don't feel like dragging around the H/Credo or I'm not going on a proper shooting trip or client job is a real bonus. It can also serve as a backup body on larger shoots as I can share H lenses with it. I think having the two systems compliment each other well and if I end up really liking the X1D I can slowly get more pieces of the system. Again the XCD lenses are just so incredible, it's tempting to move towards the X system on that basis alone (mainly I've been shooting the XCD 65mm). To think that Hasselblad achieved this lens quality in such a small form factor is a real accomplishment. Eventually when a 100mp X body/back comes out with the latest generation of sensor, I think the system will become even more compelling. I do sorely miss C1 when shooting the X1D, but the lens quality, portability, ease of use with EVF, and almost as good colors/look make it ok for me to deal with the downsides of Phocus.


-miska
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borzamircea

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2020, 05:26:35 am »

Hi Miska,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I started looking at the 45p lens as it started showing up in Europe. Also, a used X!D mk I at mpb.de is roughly 3300 eur. So a 45p and a X1D for starters would be around 4500 eur. Plus a profoto trigger, say on the used market 150-200 eur.

You mentioned that the EVFs in the MK I and II are not that different. Although the back LCD is a nice feature and larger in the mk. II, I don't think that the one on the mk I affects my way of shooting (still better than the one on the IQ140). The blackout time wouldn't be an issue and the startup time is not that much of a problem with my style of shooting.

Thanks!

Mircea


 
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The View

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2020, 03:43:08 pm »

What do you shoot?

What I hear about the X1D that it has a huge viewfinder lag - which makes it impossible to catch the right moment with people - and some mention a shutter lag.

That in addition to the long start-up time and time between shots - which would not be a problem for me as long as the X1D would let me catch the right moment.

The Fuji medium format camera has a ridiculous flash sync time of 1/125 of a second and cannot be used for any flash photography where people are moving. I heard people love it for its sharpness and quality of files, but the sync time is a no-no.

I am in the market for an MF system as well, and I heard a lot of warnings on how bad and buggy Phocus is. I'm really surprised that Hasselblad didn't address all those problems that have been around for years and seems to have (I have no experience with it) a poorly coded app that is so central. And tethering is also problematic, so the voices.

So you have to precisely check on what you are shooting and what tool is the best for this.

Also: I'm not sure if I would like an electronic viewfinder even if there wasn't a lag. A great, big, bright viewfinder image is your key tool for photography. The current fashion of mirrorless cameras is strange to me. I don't want to shoot with a camera like with a smartphone.
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MediumFormat

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2020, 12:45:51 am »

I have both P1 XF IQ3100 and X1D and have tried both in my studio. For fashion and beauty I prefer P1 with C1 over Hassy and Phocus. X1D EVF lag and software crash when tethered is not the best experience.

I mainly use X1D for location shoots and travel.
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borzamircea

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2020, 03:09:37 am »

Thanks all for your insights. I mainly shoot portraits and still life in the studio, but when I travel I usually shoot landscapes. The evf wouldn't be an issue as long as it's bright and has a decent resolution and refresh rate, as most of the stuff I shoot is rather still, and I used to use Lightroom with my old Hasselblad. The VF of the phase one, even if bright, with all the adjustments, still feels uncomfortable. And the focusing is not the greatest (slow, hunting), even if the camera is rather new as a design. The LCD on the back is terrible in the IQ140.

From my perspective, I would much prefer having something I would enjoy using and not feel frustrated when I try to shoot, for one reason or another. I would also like the camera to be more travel friendly, so I can use it in travels as well.

I just did the math a few days ago, and it makes more sense to switch or find a better alternative than try and get a 1q 150,250 or 350 back for the phase one.

Cheers,

Mircea
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Conner999

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2020, 07:20:09 am »

No experience with X1D_, but we use the H5D40 and acquired a GFX50S to go along side it. Our primary reason was the ability to use H series glass. Didn't want to have two bodies and two entirely different lens mounts. Testing an X1D in our region was not an option.

Love the Hassy and Phocus, but a Fuji MAY be an option to consider.  It tethers via C1 and can use the leaf shutter H series lenses. 

Tethering the Fuji with C1 works seamlessly (as does our H5D w/Phocus). It's also nice to have an option on a shoot if Phocus has an issue, we have FW cable problems, etc. Different software, different cables but can use same lenses as Hassy if desired.

The slightly longer VF blackout time of mirrorless does takes a bit of getting used to, but we're thrilled with the GFX.  The ability to preview the ambient exposure in the VF pre-shot and preview the final shot in the VF is great. Less chimping. Picking any focus point when using GF lenses is great.

Using it with H series glass (via the Fuji adapter) with 1/800 sync (or with the focal shutter at 1/4000 max shutter and 1/125 sync) is simplicity itself - hit a button on the adapter and switch between shutters on the fly.

The H adapter works perfectly, passes EXIF info and controls aperture via command dial. It's manual focus only and while no auto-stop-down, with EVF gain, peaking (set to Low) and various magnified views in the VF it's not an issue.
 
TTL (using Godox AD200s) is no issue with either leaf shutter or focal plane shutter.  HSS is also seamless when using the focal shutter and SS >1/125, but we prefer leaf shutters due to less power loss. 

The TTL is very accurate. Take 1-2 shots to get exposure, hit button on Godox Pro trigger to convert to transfer last TTL setting to manual mode and exit TTL and work away, tweaking as you wish manually. It's the same approach Profoto uses with their great AiR TTL system.  Saves time.

Also no problem with our Profoto & Elinchrom lights in manual mode.

The Fuji GF lenses are #$%^& SHARP and their IS system while noisy, is amazing.  You can readily get 1/30s hand-held shots with the 250mm.

The fast focal plane shutter of the Fuji also allows adapting lenses from Mamiya (M645), Contax 645, Pentax and some 35mm glass with better results than using a slower E-shutter.

Anyway - just an option to consider, but either option is stellar.
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pschefz

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2020, 10:00:39 pm »

to anyone used to shooting with Hasselblad H or phase XF the slowness (AF and overall) and lag of the X1D system really should not be an issue at all....the X1D is slow...the X1DII is slow but overall much improved and I would recommend it over the X1D, in the end the price of the camera with 3 lenses should be pretty close...especially when shooting with EVF is an issue...the X1DII's EVF is much better...
this might be personal but I love EVFs...besides the obvious advantages of not having a mirror it provides a clear preview of what the final file looks like...so that alone makes it a no brainer for me....
just because the X1D is slower then nikons, Sonys,....does not mean it is as slow as Hasselblad H or phase XF....both of which have mirrors...which comes with blackout and every shutter has lag, I never thought about shutter lag or black out when I used my fuji gx 680 or Mamiya RZ or 645.....we get spoiled with modern cameras and yes, the Fuji GF system is faster in every way...
about flash sync: 1/125 in studio is no problem since most likely action is frozen with flash duration anyway, outside HSS nowadays works wonder, yes a central shutter is great but there is no shot the X1D can't get that the H might....one just has together used to working with either system....
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BobShaw

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Re: X1D mk I and II and/or Phase one
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 01:25:27 am »


What I hear about the X1D

I heard a lot of warnings on how bad and buggy Phocus is.

I'm not sure if I would like an electronic viewfinder

Do you have any actual experience?

My experience after two years with the camera is that the X1D is an exceptional camera that you can take anywhere. I have not had any issues with Phocus using an 8g/128g MacBook Air. The Evf did take a little while to get used to but visibility in low light is real bonus.
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