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Author Topic: Interesting debate about street Photography  (Read 1491 times)

RSL

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2020, 11:33:51 am »

Well, as usual your "arguments" boil down simply to insults, Ivo. I'm not sure whether your problem is with the English language or with a thinking problem. As I pointed out once before, I was in politics for eight years, so insults don't bother me, but you're not getting your point across. It's pretty obvious it's not getting across to others either.
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Rob C

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2020, 01:01:52 pm »

And the rest is projection?

Is your initial dry comment ’AIDS’ including all what this picture shows?

Don’t misunderstand, nothing wrong, even unavoidable to project, but there is a huge gap between what an image is and how it is understood. And then: opinions about the maker, it troubles the perception even more.
Wagners music is pulled down, not because of the music, but because someone nasty liked it so much....


Ivo, it may clear the waters if you tell us what you see in that photo that I or anyone else is missing.

It's not going to be good enough simply to write a different scenario to anyone else: you really need to latch onto something that is a convincing reading of the image, and then tell it in words.

Even if the picture had been published without a credit, the reaction (mine) would have been no different. It would remain a place I don't want to go.

I have nothing against Wagner or any other musical genius: I don't go for that side of the scale at all, preferring simple stuff that makes my feet tap and gives me a little exercise even when at home. I don't think of music as a mental adventure, as something that's going to better me in any way; just like it to keep me happy company, even when it's blue and the message is heartbreakingly familiar. I don't seek further education, I'm afraid.

Rob

petermfiore

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2020, 01:24:20 pm »

Not really, Peter. Tatsuo’s style is very recognizable. Men can elaborate about how he works, but stating that ‘who put this together doesn’t have a clue’ as some think, is nonsense.
Check out his website.
https://www.tatsuosuzuki.com

I understand That this is Tatsuo's style of Photography. I just don't like the brand. Good for some others. By the way Ivo, I never said his work is nonsense. Just not my kind of street. Is that ok with you?

Peter

RSL

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2020, 03:39:40 pm »

...mingled with cameraclub knowledge . .

I can't pass this one by, Ivo. I'm not into "camera club" stuff, but you ought to be careful with your insults. I've seen "camera club" photography a good deal better than anything I've seen you do.
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SharonVL

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2020, 10:14:35 am »

Why is it not ok to stick a camera  in someone’s face but it is ok to take a photo of them from a distance without their permission? And then publish that photo?

Mr. Suzuki’s style is not something I would emulate, but his results are not unflattering. I would rather have him take my photo than someone who from a distance took an ugly shot of me with my mouth open talking or eating. Or maybe caught me in an awkward moment or stance. His photos show an attitude towards people that is not unkind.

I do not like the way Fuji handled this. They should not have let the cancel culture people win, imo.

Sharon




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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2020, 10:33:25 am »

... I do not like the way Fuji handled this. They should not have let the cancel culture people win, imo.

+1

Rob C

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2020, 05:33:30 pm »

Why is it not ok to stick a camera  in someone’s face but it is ok to take a photo of them from a distance without their permission? And then publish that photo?

Mr. Suzuki’s style is not something I would emulate, but his results are not unflattering. I would rather have him take my photo than someone who from a distance took an ugly shot of me with my mouth open talking or eating. Or maybe caught me in an awkward moment or stance. His photos show an attitude towards people that is not unkind.

I do not like the way Fuji handled this. They should not have let the cancel culture people win, imo.

Sharon

I don't believe that it is. Paparazzi are a collective pest. Catching someone, intentionally, in an unflattering mode (unless a paid model gig), whether close up or from afar, ammounts to the same thing, Sharon. In fact, working with a long lens usually makes models look a helluva lot better. IMO. Catching anyone without their permission is a problem all its own.

Fuji is acting no differently than did one of my own best clients - perhaps the very best - by reacting to the dangers of political correctness and how those loud voices can damage reputations. That was back in the mid-eighties. And before that, in the early seventies when I first began to produce calendars for them, they were already well aware of the problems that pictures of women could potentially create for their clients: their calendars were shot so that they could provide pages which were topless or nude, portraits, and fully clothed. That meant that the calendar had to have independently interchangeable pages, which was solved by having a second wiro-bound date section hanging from the backing board where the upper photo section ended. The recipient could flip the illustrations up top to suit the guessed perspective of whoever was going to come visit him in his office. It all created extra cost, but hey, I was working!

I wrote that paparazzi are a pest; that doesn't even begin to say what I think of PC obsessives. They brought premature retirement.

All that said, I think he does what he does extremely well. And make me thirst for the city.

Rob
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 05:38:36 pm by Rob C »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2020, 05:41:08 pm »

... Paparazzi are a collective pest...

Not at all.

Paparazzi, like any other profession, serve to satisfy a collective need (for gossip) on one side, and on the other side the need of budding celebrities to become real ones, and have-beens to maintain their status.

Budding celebrities would give one kidney for paparazzi to chase them. Only when they get there, to the top, with the help of paparazzi, they start whining about "privacy." Give me a break.

Rob C

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2020, 06:30:45 am »

Not at all.

Paparazzi, like any other profession, serve to satisfy a collective need (for gossip) on one side, and on the other side the need of budding celebrities to become real ones, and have-beens to maintain their status.

Budding celebrities would give one kidney for paparazzi to chase them. Only when they get there, to the top, with the help of paparazzi, they start whining about "privacy." Give me a break.

When I was young, I saw the Dolce Vita syndrome through different eyes. My mother lived there (Rome) for a while, and after she left, I went there again to spend some days with a relative. I was asked along to a birthday party one night and after the meal was over, some of us breezed down to the Via Veneto for a giggle, and as I had the ubiquitous camera and little grey Braun flash with me, we decided to play a game of faux paps, with myself annoying one of the prettier girls from the party as she walked down through the pavement tables, waving a dismissive hand at me and calling out no photos! no photos! Caught up in the excitement, I also shot some total strangers sitting at tables, and as you suggest, those girls were delighted - if possibly surprised - to be snapped. But that was another era.

And yep, my knowing anything about paps came from the Italian magazines that I used to get sent sometimes, which were full of Rome film gossip and snaps. Cinecitta was the European equivalent of Hollywood for several years. (I linked here to photographer Chiara Samugheo some while ago - she had hundreds of star covers and features from Rome.) Then, I saw the DV film and understood the origin of the word. I stoppd having access to Silver Screen, Photoplay etc. when we left India, so I'd forgotten all about columnists Walter Winchell, Hedda Hopper and Louella Parsons. Instead, I found lots of books by photographers Peter Basch, Peter Gowland and Don Ornitz (Fawcett Publications?) where they featured stars and starlets from around the world movie industry. I realised, years later, that the movie stills those guys shot as PR for stars were so superior to the anodyne, interchangeable Photoshopped plastic replica people of today's publications.

But the magazines. They moved from entertainment to gutter crawling, catering to the unfathomed depths of readership minds. I really don't care to know if some tart is or is not wearing knickers as she gets out of the hired limo.

If "stars" need them, great, but they and their hunters have their closed niche in society too, and as long as they work it out amongst their own ranks, cool. But street's another ballgame where people play at paps but don't have the outlets to make the sales nor the opportunities to snap the celebs they would seek. Instead, they annoy the casual passer by.

So yeah, there's the break for which you asked

;-)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 06:36:38 am by Rob C »
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Ivo_B

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2020, 12:53:34 pm »

I understand That this is Tatsuo's style of Photography. I just don't like the brand. Good for some others. By the way Ivo, I never said his work is nonsense. Just not my kind of street. Is that ok with you?

Peter

Yes it is, Peter. It was not you who turned the discussion into the old same debate about clueless people doing street. It was Russ.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 01:05:09 pm by Ivo_B »
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Ivo_B

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2020, 01:04:09 pm »


Ivo, it may clear the waters if you tell us what you see in that photo that I or anyone else is missing.


Rob

Rob, let’s start back with my question.
Your answer was short: AIDS. And then you expressed your opinion on the photographer. And that explains my point. Also in Tatsuo’s case, suddenly, it is not anymore about the pictures, but about the photographer.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2020, 01:12:28 pm »

Why is it not ok to stick a camera  in someone’s face but it is ok to take a photo of them from a distance without their permission? And then publish that photo?

Mr. Suzuki’s style is not something I would emulate, but his results are not unflattering. I would rather have him take my photo than someone who from a distance took an ugly shot of me with my mouth open talking or eating. Or maybe caught me in an awkward moment or stance. His photos show an attitude towards people that is not unkind.

I do not like the way Fuji handled this. They should not have let the cancel culture people win, imo.

Sharon

I can not agree more.
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Rob C

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2020, 03:50:05 pm »

Rob, let’s start back with my question.
Your answer was short: AIDS. And then you expressed your opinion on the photographer. And that explains my point. Also in Tatsuo’s case, suddenly, it is not anymore about the pictures, but about the photographer.

Photographer, style and produced images are inseperable when there is no external client with his own desires. You describe the image you have described the photographer. At least, for any photographer who has a body of work substantial enough to have allowed him to develop into himself rather than remain an embryo.

Ivo_B

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2020, 04:17:57 pm »

Photographer, style and produced images are inseperable when there is no external client with his own desires. You describe the image you have described the photographer. At least, for any photographer who has a body of work substantial enough to have allowed him to develop into himself rather than remain an embryo.

Yes, that is true.

But does this justify a declassification of the work as such? That’s what happened with the Tatsuo video clip.
Suddenly it is not about the work he makes with Fuji gear, but about how he works.
Fujifilm as a brand prefers not to be associated with the photographers style of working, regardless the result.


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Rob C

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2020, 04:32:21 pm »

Unfortunately. That’s why America remains the only truly free country for photographers... and in general.

Like carrying guns, then. The hell with the collateral damage.

Your foot, your bullet.

:-)

Rob C

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2020, 04:41:13 pm »

Yes, that is true.

But does this justify a declassification of the work as such? That’s what happened with the Tatsuo video clip.
Suddenly it is not about the work he makes with Fuji gear, but about how he works.
Fujifilm as a brand prefers not to be associated with the photographers style of working, regardless the result.

Don't you believe Fuji has the right to make up its own mind about what does or does not harm its image? It's their image, remember, their call.

Rob C

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2020, 04:46:40 pm »

Rob, let’s start back with my question.
Your answer was short: AIDS. And then you expressed your opinion on the photographer. And that explains my point. Also in Tatsuo’s case, suddenly, it is not anymore about the pictures, but about the photographer.

You have still not told me what there is about the Goldin picture that I missed.

SharonVL

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2020, 05:41:11 pm »

Don't you believe Fuji has the right to make up its own mind about what does or does not harm its image? It's their image, remember, their call.

According to people who shot with Suzuki, he isn't really that aggressive. What I wonder is if Fuji wanted the excitement for their video and then caved when the criticism rolled in. This is what I object to. If you produce the video, then why fire the photographer over it? Why not fire whoever produced the video? They used Suzuki as a scapegoat. I think the story is more than what is on the surface but to fire Suzuki was really wrong. Again, just my opinion. They could have taken down the video without firing Suzuki.

Sharon
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FranciscoDisilvestro

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2020, 07:18:25 pm »

I do not like the way Fuji handled this. They should not have let the cancel culture people win, imo.


Corporations in general are very risk-averse when it comes to their reputation. They are not there to fight for your causes.

Ivo_B

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Re: Interesting debate about street Photography
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2020, 05:13:11 am »

Don't you believe Fuji has the right to make up its own mind about what does or does not harm its image? It's their image, remember, their call.

Fuji has that right, for sure.
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