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Author Topic: SOLVED - Slow/inaccurate tracking of mouse movements and clicking in the UI  (Read 622 times)

datro

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I'm a longtime Lightroom user but a new C1 user exploring version 20.0.2 on a Windows 10 workstation (HP Z800, 36GB RAM, NVIDIA RTX 2060 Super discrete graphics).  One of the first things I noticed in the UI is that tracking of mouse movements and clicking seems "sluggish."

For example, while experimenting with Sessions to understand how they work, I created sub-folders under my Session "Capture" folder to make it easier to subdivide images in the Session.  In the Library panel, I single-click on one of those subfolders and I see my images that have been placed there.  Then if I single-click back on the top-level "Capture" folder, C1 asks me if I want to move files from the sub-folder!!  It's as if C1 thinks I did a click-drag rather than just single clicks on different folders.  If I wait for 5 seconds then click the top-level, it works as expected.

Also I'm seeing many cases where I have to click a menu item, folder, or tool TWICE to get C1 to recognize that I have clicked something.  Having built a few Windows GUI apps of my own, my experience tells me that C1 is somehow losing mouse focus or is significantly slow in responding to mouse click interrupts.

Has anyone else seen this?  I've verified that C1 is not doing anything else in the background when I observe this behavior, so it seems like purely a UI performance or design issue.  If this is "normal" for the C1 interface, then I doubt I will invest much more time in it.

Dave
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 03:51:12 pm by datro »
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IanSeward

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Re: Slow/inaccurate tracking of mouse movements and clicking in the UI
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2020, 06:01:49 am »

I'm a longtime Lightroom user but a new C1 user exploring version 20.0.2 on a Windows 10 workstation (HP Z800, 36GB RAM, NVIDIA RTX 2060 Super discrete graphics).  One of the first things I noticed in the UI is that tracking of mouse movements and clicking seems "sluggish."

For example, while experimenting with Sessions to understand how they work, I created sub-folders under my Session "Capture" folder to make it easier to subdivide images in the Session.  In the Library panel, I single-click on one of those subfolders and I see my images that have been placed there.  Then if I single-click back on the top-level "Capture" folder, C1 asks me if I want to move files from the sub-folder!!  It's as if C1 thinks I did a click-drag rather than just single clicks on different folders.  If I wait for 5 seconds then click the top-level, it works as expected.

Also I'm seeing many cases where I have to click a menu item, folder, or tool TWICE to get C1 to recognize that I have clicked something.  Having built a few Windows GUI apps of my own, my experience tells me that C1 is somehow losing mouse focus or is significantly slow in responding to mouse click interrupts.

Has anyone else seen this?  I've verified that C1 is not doing anything else in the background when I observe this behavior, so it seems like purely a UI performance or design issue.  If this is "normal" for the C1 interface, then I doubt I will invest much more time in it.

Dave

If what you were describing was common behavior enthusiasts let alone professionals would not be using C1Pro. :-)  Works instantly on my 6 year old i7 Sandybridge desktop :-)

First port of call with most issues these days is to update your graphics driver.  Choose the Studio version rather than the normal game version, assuming you are not gaming :-)

Important Question. You are adding these sub-folders as session favorites which is the mechanism for telling C1 what folders you want to look at in this session?

I used LR from V1-6 and naturally stated on catalogues because that was what I was used to. I now use sessions as this is how I prefer to work. Sessions are very flexible and I actually prefer to flatten the sessions structure by using the Windows directory commands.  For example I normally transfer images from sd card to computer using Windows File Manager to a suitably named directory.  If you then create a session and replace the Capture field with 2 periods then C1 makes the folder I targeted with the session the capture folder and my images automatically appear in the session.

You also have the option of creating a session album or smart album to separate images virtually?

From personal experience looking at different software is difficult.  You tend to look for controls with names that you recognise and just pull those sliders.  However, just because a slider has the same name doesn't mean that it does the same job.  Take the Black and White sliders in C1.  In LR these set your black and white points. In C1 these sliders are giving you fine control over the whites and blacks over a restricted range taht enables you to fine tune contarst in highlights and shadows using the set White and Black points as essentially hard stops. 

How do you set Black and White points in C1?  Using the Levels control as in virtually every other image editing software. LR doesn't have a Levels control which is why it needs the Black and White sliders. If you are unfamiliar with Levels it would be worth looking up the info as it is a very useful tool, particularly as it can be used in local adjustments. Levels are essentially a simplified curves control.

Local edits are where C1 excels as it uses layers like PS rather than the brush and pin UI of LR and virtually all of the tools can be used locally.  Layers are far better UI than brush and pin but unfortunately the guy who developed LR had an "anything but PS" approach and that is why the crop in LR works the opposite way round to every other image editing program.  This approach makes moving from LR more difficult because it is the one program that doesn't obey the standards.

Local adjustments are all about selecting parts of the image and then adjusting them.  In C1 you have the normal ways of selecting parts of the image brushes, gradients, Luma range etc as well as with colour using the Advanced colour editor (needs to be studied as it is superb) but then you can feather and refine selections like PS.  With the adjustments on layers you can turn layers on/off, vary the opacity (strength) of your adjustments to fine tune and if you set the initial layer opacity to 70% then you can make several adjustments and then fine tune by varying the strength of your adjustments up and down. This speeds up work flow.

Selections can also be copied to other layers and selections can be inverted.  Thus select a sky and make your adjustments, copy that mask to a new layer, invert it and you have a mask for the foreground. You can even copy masks to other images. This is most useful with parametric selections like Luma range which will adjust to each image.

Then there are tools like the Luma curve which is again not in LR that allows you to change image contrast without impacting saturation. Think Luminosity blending mode in PS.

Those are some of the differences between LR and C1 and there are many more.  LR provides more functionality than C1 with things like book, maps, HDR, panos, slide shows etc whereas C1 focuses on image editing.  Personally I find I only have to go to PS or Affinity Photo when I want to do major pixel mangling like object removal or sky replacement.  Given all of the selection tools in C1 simply means that you can do all of your normal editing in C1. Also the UI is completely user configurable.

Given all of that and remembering I have been where you are, unless you are really interested in moving to C1 I would stick with LR.  There is a lot of new things to learn as well as different tools and techniques.  It took me 3 tries before I moved to C1, so save your self a lot of time, LR is excellent software and the market leader you can't really go wrong with it.


Ian
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datro

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Re: Slow/inaccurate tracking of mouse movements and clicking in the UI
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2020, 09:46:04 am »

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.  Very helpful.

Quote
If what you were describing was common behavior enthusiasts let alone professionals would not be using C1Pro. :-)  Works instantly on my 6 year old i7 Sandybridge desktop :-)

Yes, I fully agree.  I plan to take this up with Phase One directly to see what is going on.  There is no way that a modern GUI should behave like it is on my machine.  I don't have this kind of problem with any other software that I use.  I'm not sure what UI framework they are using (QT?) to make the application cross-platform (Windows and macOS) but something is not right.  I suspect the vast majority of C1 users are on macOS, but it sounds like you are Windows like me.  Are you running latest Windows 10 and C1 20.0.2?

Quote
First port of call with most issues these days is to update your graphics driver.  Choose the Studio version rather than the normal game version, assuming you are not gaming :-)

No gaming here...I use the latest Studio driver from NVIDIA.

Quote
Important Question. You are adding these sub-folders as session favorites which is the mechanism for telling C1 what folders you want to look at in this session?

Yes, after some investigation I realized that it is not enough to just create the sub-folders; you also have to mark them as favorites in order to see all the images in smart albums etc.  I will experiment with your "flattened directory structure" approach to see how that works for me.  One thing about Sessions I DO NOT like is that if I'm looking at System Folders in the Library panel and click on a folder somewhere in my machine's directory structure, C1 immediately scans that folder for image files and builds the cache with previews and proxies.  If that directory happened to contain a lot of images, it can add up to a SIGNIFICANT number of new files which I do not want on my machine.  It's just not necessary to do this and is too agressive.  At least there should be a Preferences option to turn this behavior off.

Quote
Given all of that and remembering I have been where you are, unless you are really interested in moving to C1 I would stick with LR.  There is a lot of new things to learn as well as different tools and techniques.  It took me 3 tries before I moved to C1, so save your self a lot of time, LR is excellent software and the market leader you can't really go wrong with it.

The main reason I'm taking a deep look at C1 now is that I will be starting to do tethered shooting for art reproduction and from what I understand C1 is THE best for a tethered workflow.  I know that LR also supports a tethered workflow and I plan to check that as well for comparison.  But first I'm just trying to get educated about C1 and that starts with understanding Sessions vs Catalogs.  Using Sessions makes a LOT of sense for art reproduction, that much is clear.  Once I feel comfortable with file/image organization in C1, then I can move on to digging into the image controls themselves.

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UnfamiliarLight

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Re: Slow/inaccurate tracking of mouse movements and clicking in the UI
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2020, 11:02:34 am »

I plan to take this up with Phase One directly to see what is going on.  There is no way that a modern GUI should behave like it is on my machine.  I don't have this kind of problem with any other software that I use.  I'm not sure what UI framework they are using (QT?) to make the application cross-platform (Windows and macOS) but something is not right.  I suspect the vast majority of C1 users are on macOS, but it sounds like you are Windows like me.  Are you running latest Windows 10 and C1 20.0.2?

I am running windows 10 and the latest C1 on two machines - one notebook and one desktop. I do not experience the problem you describe. Capture one support is way way behind on the support requests. That is being charitable. I am not saying you should not report your problem just pointing out they will be a while before they get back to you. I suggest that you try an uninstall and reinstall - after checking for graphics card updates that Ian S suggested.

Side note: Based on the posts on the Capture One forum there are nearly the same number of posts per-day on the Windows as on the Mac forum. I suspect that the ratio of users between the platforms is not as one sided as you suspect. But I don't really have any special knowledge or anything.

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Doug Peterson

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Re: Slow/inaccurate tracking of mouse movements and clicking in the UI
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2020, 11:48:06 am »

Capture one support is way way behind on the support requests. That is being charitable. I am not saying you should not report your problem just pointing out they will be a while before they get back to you.

Notably, if you buy Capture One from CaptureOne.com then the only support available is online support requests. If you buy Capture One from a value added reseller like us, at the same price, you have that same online support system, but you also have phone/email/text/in-person/carrier-pigeon support from us.

datro

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Re: Slow/inaccurate tracking of mouse movements and clicking in the UI
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2020, 12:21:19 pm »

Side note: Based on the posts on the Capture One forum there are nearly the same number of posts per-day on the Windows as on the Mac forum. I suspect that the ratio of users between the platforms is not as one sided as you suspect. But I don't really have any special knowledge or anything.

Good to know that there are others running on Windows 10 with no problems, thanks.  I guess I should also start looking at the C1 forum for Windows users.

I've attached a screen capture which illustrates what I'm seeing.  The "Selects" folder is currently selected, then I single click on "Capture Folder" and when I do I see the cursor briefly change to the "No can do" indicator.  If I wait for a few seconds and click on the "Selects" folder again it works properly.  This tells me that C1 is either doing something behind the scenes that removes its attention to the mouse click or is otherwise not responsive to the mouse click.  I am flabergasted with this behavior and I can't believe it is normal.



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IanSeward

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Re: Slow/inaccurate tracking of mouse movements and clicking in the UI
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2020, 01:37:34 pm »

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.  Very helpful.

Yes, I fully agree.  I plan to take this up with Phase One directly to see what is going on.  There is no way that a modern GUI should behave like it is on my machine.  I don't have this kind of problem with any other software that I use.  I'm not sure what UI framework they are using (QT?) to make the application cross-platform (Windows and macOS) but something is not right.  I suspect the vast majority of C1 users are on macOS, but it sounds like you are Windows like me.  Are you running latest Windows 10 and C1 20.0.2?

No gaming here...I use the latest Studio driver from NVIDIA.

Yes, after some investigation I realized that it is not enough to just create the sub-folders; you also have to mark them as favorites in order to see all the images in smart albums etc.  I will experiment with your "flattened directory structure" approach to see how that works for me.  One thing about Sessions I DO NOT like is that if I'm looking at System Folders in the Library panel and click on a folder somewhere in my machine's directory structure, C1 immediately scans that folder for image files and builds the cache with previews and proxies.  If that directory happened to contain a lot of images, it can add up to a SIGNIFICANT number of new files which I do not want on my machine.  It's just not necessary to do this and is too agressive.  At least there should be a Preferences option to turn this behavior off.

The main reason I'm taking a deep look at C1 now is that I will be starting to do tethered shooting for art reproduction and from what I understand C1 is THE best for a tethered workflow.  I know that LR also supports a tethered workflow and I plan to check that as well for comparison.  But first I'm just trying to get educated about C1 and that starts with understanding Sessions vs Catalogs.  Using Sessions makes a LOT of sense for art reproduction, that much is clear.  Once I feel comfortable with file/image organization in C1, then I can move on to digging into the image controls themselves.

Yes I am on Windows 10Pro 1909 Build18363.592.

Never occurs to me to look for files in the library panel :-) C1 is not LR and the behavior you are seeing is normally regarded as a plus because you can click on a folder and start editing the images. Naturally C1 needs to remember the adjustments for the files. In LR you can't see any files until you have imported them.

OK, if you are going to shoot tethered C1 is the app.  Even Adobe trainers like Scott Kelby admits he uses C1 for tethered shooting :-)

As you have seen from other replies there is something wrong on your installation an uninstall/reinstall is probably in order. I have never seen the no-go icon :-(

Hope you get it sorted and if you persevere you may, like me, never look back to LR, superb though it is.

Ian
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datro

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OK, I think I know what is going on now.  It's my mouse.  >:(

It's a well-used Microsoft wired optical mouse that I've just replace with another I had laying around here.  It turns out that when I see the "no go" icon, C1 thinks I'm trying to drag on something that is not draggable.  You can test this yourself...If you click and drag on the "Capture Folder" you will see what I've been seeing when I just do a single-click.  Apparently my old mouse is intermittently sending "I am moving" in addition to the "left button click" signals to C1 when I do a single click, and this is fooling C1 into thinking I'm trying to click/drag. 

It's still a bit strange that I've not encountered this problem with any other software on my machine, but this could be that most GUIs would have few cases where they would need to pay attention to mouse dragging after a click down.  In the case of C1, it is paying attention to mouse drag, even when it doesn't need to!  So in reality, C1 is very responsive to mouse activity  :D

Sorry for the fire drill on this and for wasting everyone's time.  At least I've picked up some Sessions pointers from the discussion here and will continue with learning more about C1.

Moral of the story:  Your mouse can go bad; replace it if click behavior in an app starts to get weird.
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UnfamiliarLight

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Moral of the story:  Your mouse can go bad; replace it if click behavior in an app starts to get weird.

Glad you figured it out.

Once again showing that it *is* a good thing to hear that other people with similar setups are working fine - as they say it is a clue. In this case a clue that hardware had worn out.
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