Which way is north?

[Redcrown]

I need some referees to shed light on a great martial debate. My wife and I are touring southern Arizona. Much of the time in the maze of streets in Tucson. We both have identical smartphones used for in car Google Maps navigation.

I set mine to the default "true north" orientation so the map is always orientated north, like every map I've ever used for 70+ years. She sets hers for "directional" orientation, so UP is whatever direction you are heading. If you are heading southeast, then southeast is straight up on the display. Something I didn't even know was possible.

It baffles me and I get completely disorientated. I usually know which was is north, but when I don't I glance at the map and if my "icon" is going to the left then I know I'm headed west and north is to my right.

Raging fights are occurring in the car depending on whose phone is being used. I know the fight will never be settled, but I'm looking for moral support.

[faberryman]

I wouldn't dream of getting mixed up in this.

[JoeKitchen]

I always have my GPS set to directional orientation, which points you in the direction you need to go.  I find this makes much more sense and relates to how you would navigate with a compass on a map. 

Although I would always orient a map to be in line with true north, just so I would have a good reference of the geographical layout, when using a compass to determine the correct direction to move, you turn the housing so as to line up the direction you need to go with the direction-of-travel arrow at the front of the compass.  You then spin the whole compass (and yourself) until the north side of the needle lines up with the orientation arrow on the housing.  At this point, the direction-of-travel arrow (and the entirety of the compass) is pointing in the direction you must travel, much like the GPS directions on a phone would when set to directional orientation. 

Or at least this is how I look at it. 

If I where just looking at a map of a location on my phone without using directions, then I would prefer the map to orient to true north.  But using a phone for directions, like I would hand hold a compass, I would prefer the directional orientation, just like I would be doing with a compass. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I need some referees to shed light on a great martial debate...

i hope it won't come to that. Unless you meant "marital"? 

Joking aside, i always use directional approach. That way if the GPS asks me to turn left, the arrow points left, and I turn left. Anything else requires mental acrobatics I would assume on the level of Bear Grylls.

[Robert Roaldi]

Okay, first off you need to know that the fact that you know what a map is and know how to read one means that you are in a very tiny minority of modern humans. Please note that those others cannot relate to what you're talking about. It's no different that if you were speaking a foreign language. You need to grasp this.

I live in Ottawa and some of my in-laws live in Toronto. Not all of them know that Ottawa is east of Toronto. To them, it's just a sign on the highway. How the road gets here is an utter mystery to them. One of them used Google maps once to get directions on how to get here. If you don't know the region, there are only 2-3 highways to choose from. They're big and fat and green on all the maps, impossible to not see them. But none of them own any maps.

I am not exaggerating for a laugh, and please understand that I have nothing against doing that. I do that a lot, but there's no need in this case.

For a couple decades I was involved in TSD car rallies (time-speed-distance), both competing and organizing. Over the years we had to consistently make rally instructions easier or no one would show up. Using a map of any kind was reserved for Intermediate and Expert classes. Using map-based instruction for newbies was not permitted.

I wonder if wanting the GPS to show your current direction as up is something people learn from POV video games.

I've been known to veer off route just to hear the GPS complain. Off-topic, the French voice in my GPS is a lot less obnoxious than the English one.

[RSL]

If you've ever flown an airplane you'll want the top of your map oriented to north. Any other orientation will cause your mind to crash and burn.

[JoeKitchen]

Okay, first off you need to know that the fact that you know what a map is and know how to read one means that you are in a very tiny minority of modern humans. Please note that those others cannot relate to what you're talking about. It's no different that if you were speaking a foreign language. You need to grasp this.

I live in Ottawa and some of my in-laws live in Toronto. Not all of them know that Ottawa is east of Toronto. To them, it's just a sign on the highway. How the road gets here is an utter mystery to them. One of them used Google maps once to get directions on how to get here. If you don't know the region, there are only 2-3 highways to choose from. They're big and fat and green on all the maps, impossible to not see them. But none of them own any maps.

I am not exaggerating for a laugh, and please understand that I have nothing against doing that. I do that a lot, but there's no need in this case.

For a couple decades I was involved in TSD car rallies (time-speed-distance), both competing and organizing. Over the years we had to consistently make rally instructions easier or no one would show up. Using a map of any kind was reserved for Intermediate and Expert classes. Using map-based instruction for newbies was not permitted.

I wonder if wanting the GPS to show your current direction as up is something people learn from POV video games.

I've been known to veer off route just to hear the GPS complain. Off-topic, the French voice in my GPS is a lot less obnoxious than the English one.

Not to discount your observation, but I find that having the phone orient your direction when using it for directions is very similar to hand holding a compass when hiking and using degrees to determine which direction to move in.  After rotating the housing to the degrees you need to move, the compass points in the direction you need to move (assuming you're using it correctly). 

(I know for a fact many people would screw this up too, but I assume if you can read a map, you can also use a compass.) 

I feel like this is pretty much what directions on a phone do.  You are really not using the directions to see an overall view of the area (even though it is partially shown), only to know what direction to move in, just like with a compass. 



On further thought, I guess the real difference here is I am looking at this from the perspective of hiking within forests, which is where most of my experience is when it comes to map reading & compass use.  I even get pissed when I cant find a topological map of an area, but I would bet there are even less people who can read them, so I guess whats the point in making them any more. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

There were times when I had a rental with a big GPS screen. When driving cross country, I would still attach my phone with Google maps above it, with close up (city level) directional orientation. The built-in GPS I would then use north-oriented, with a much broader view (state level). Best of both worlds.

[fdisilvestro]

My preferences (similar to what Slobodan describes as best of both worlds):

Close range, street driving: Directional orientation
Broad view, nautical or aerial: North orientation

[Rob C]

If you've ever flown an airplane you'll want the top of your map oriented to north. Any other orientation will cause your mind to crash and burn.

I have never flown an aircraft, but having a map show N anywhere but up top seems crazy. Funnily enough, exactly this happened to me yesterday evening, not outdoors, but at home watching the Spanish weather forecast: the map of Europe was rotated so that N pointed where NE should rightly be... for some seconds I couldn't recognize the shape of what I was looking at - thought we'd discovered a brand new continent. Awful.

My wife could read maps. Took us through France many a time, and considering their straight ahead roadsigns point off a bit to the side instead of straight upwards, that's no mean feat; the natural inclination to that signage is to branch off to the right. I have no experience of satellite navigational aids in cars.

[John Camp]

I live in Santa Fe. We have a street, Paseo De Peralta, which is shaped like a miles-long letter C, with another road that intersects with both ends of it, so you might think of the two streets together as a large letter D. If you turn onto the Paseo, you may at different times, a few minutes apart, on the same road, be traveling East, North or West. Many of our streets are based on old Indian trails, and on the idea that you never want to lose elevation if you then have to reclimb it to get somewhere. So the streets wander. The only rational way to use phone or GPS maps is for the straight-ahead orientation. The "north is up" would drive you crazy. Anyway, I don't think of it as "north is up." If you lay the phone on the car center console, you're looking at it flat...and the virtual car on the map is then moving in the same direction you are, and right turns are right turns etc.

[bassman51]

I keep my iPhone with Google Maps set with the direction of travel up - mimicking the direction I’m traveling.  On the other hand, I keep the dashboard map oriented with North up - to give me a proper and familiar overview of the area.   

[Rob C]

You guys must do a helluva lot of driving in unfamiliar territory. Are you all pro musicians, or just travelling salesmen?

After a couple of trips, I believed that I could have driven from Barcelona to Calais without a map of any sort. That we did still use one was because we varied the route a few times just in order to experience a little more of France whilst maintaning a general south to north direction (and, most importantly, the ability to do the reverse!).

I really wonder how those who came before us ever managed to leave home; no wonder many never wanted to return. Those dragons there be out there, just off the edges!

;-)

[Paulo Bizarro]

You should see those ancient maps from Arab navigators. South is up.

[Rob C]

You should see those ancient maps from Arab navigators. South is up.

Which explains a helluva lot.

:-)

[fdisilvestro]

The three levels of knowledge about map reading:

1.- Cannot read a map
2.- Can read a map as long as North is pointing upwards
3.- Can read a map regardless of its orientation

[Rob C]

The three levels of knowledge about map reading:

1.- Cannot read a map
2.- Can read a map as long as North is pointing upwards
3.- Can read a map regardless of its orientation

The glitch with item 3 is in the writing: you need a pair of specs that can't fall off when you crick your neck to read the names. Try that in an Audi and you'd have no chance.

Our forefathers spent centuries perfecting the art of cartography; who are we to mess with their sensible, proven conclusions?

:-)

[RSL]

Right, Rob. I took a course in historical cartography at University of Michigan. The professor gave an oral exam. He plopped down a map in front of me and asked me the date of it. It was a T & O map, but it was printed, so it had to be later than 1440. I guessed 1500, explained why, and got an A.

[fdisilvestro]

I would really like to see how you put North-up a map of Antarctica

[Jim Pascoe]

For driving with a sat-nav - I always have the direction I'm travelling at the top.  It just makes sense to me as others have said.  But being a lifelong map lover, I still need to get an overview first of the general situation - and for this I find a map orientated north essential.  So when planning a route I will either use Google maps, a printed road atlas, or one of my good old Ordnance Survey maps to first get an overview.
I imagine for most of the public these days knowing where north lies is largely academic and of no interest to them.  People often put an address into the sat-nav and will blindly follow it without having any real overview of the route or which direction they're heading in.
My brain always used to be wired to think of location in terms of it's North orientation.  I've lived near the coast all my life, but 15 years ago we moved to be just a ten minute walk from the South coast (UK).  Because I've now spent so much time looking out to sea - my brain tends to always think of places relative to the southerly view - and this does sometimes cause confusion to my internal navigation.  Or is it just age.........

Jim