Looking for a new printer

[dennmorr]

           I have been printing for 13 years on an Epson 7600 and 9600. Almost all of my work is on canvas. It looks like my 7600 has given up the ghost. I assume the 9600 does not have long way to go.  I believe that I only need a 24 inch printer. I haven't followed the new products in years so I would be grateful for any suggestions this forum  may have.
Dennis Morris

[Rand47]

           I have been printing for 13 years on an Epson 7600 and 9600. Almost all of my work is on canvas. It looks like my 7600 has given up the ghost. I assume the 9600 does not have long way to go.  I believe that I only need a 24 inch printer. I haven't followed the new products in years so I would be grateful for any suggestions this forum  may have.
Dennis Morris

Dennis,

Take a look at the “just about to be released for shipping” Epson SC P 7570 24” printer:

https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P7570-24%22-Wide-Format-Inkjet-Printer/p/SCP7570SE

Rand

[I.T. Supplies]

The P6000/P7000 are still available too and provide great quality.  The P7570 is their newest version with 12 colors, ability to clean the carriage and what not, as well as other added features not available in previous models.  I'd say it's really based on the type of printing to decide if you want to go with the newest/greatest model or stick with the current version out.

Some may want the best, but you will acquire the most color detail when using a profile that can access "all" colors.  Otherwise, the P6000 will do just fine and uses less colors for the same type of printing.

Feel free to contact us with any questions about these models.  We are "hoping" to get inventory next week on the newest series, but have the current version available as well.

IT Supplies

[Stephen Ray]

Some may want the best, but you will acquire the most color detail when using a profile that can access "all" colors.

Care to explain what this means and how one goes about this?

[I.T. Supplies]

Since most manufacturer profiles are not made to achieve all the colors the paper can receive from the printer, your best option is to do a custom profile so that you're utilizing all the colors from the printer.  The software (like X-rite's i1 Profiler) is able to properly read the patches that can than put the extra colors into the profile so that's it's available to work/use when using that paper on the printer it was done by.

Printer manufacturer do a generic paper profile that is done under their offices and won't "technically" be the same for where others will print.  Not saying that it won't look good (if the user isn't that keen to the details), but the user environment and what not can also take affect of how a print comes out.  If you do the custom profile option, this will match it more accurately and get the most out of the profile that is done per the printer location.

This is usually the way to achieve the best output for any paper (again, if you're very keen to match details/colors from screen); but also need to make sure your screen is calibrated to see what it will show on the media.  If you haven't calibrated the monitor, you may do many adjustments/corrections to get it to print properly (some don't do much and still like it).  There will really never be the perfect print, but you can surely get it very close; even with the best profile.

Hopefully this doesn't make you think you "NEED" a custom profile since it's user preference on output, but to usually achieve all colors the printer can offer, you'll most likely want to do this process.

[deanwork]

You can have a custom icc profile created from any number of services online  ( such as color management expert Andrew Rodney - Digital Dog who posts on this website )  that have the best equipment from X-Rite. So if you use a limited number of papers as most people do, it’s well worth the minimal investment. However, the tolerances are so close on these new Epson and Canon Printers that their generic profiles for most standard media are quite good.

John

Since most manufacturer profiles are not made to achieve all the colors the paper can receive from the printer, your best option is to do a custom profile so that you're utilizing all the colors from the printer.  The software (like X-rite's i1 Profiler) is able to properly read the patches that can than put the extra colors into the profile so that's it's available to work/use when using that paper on the printer it was done by.

Printer manufacturer do a generic paper profile that is done under their offices and won't "technically" be the same for where others will print.  Not saying that it won't look good (if the user isn't that keen to the details), but the user environment and what not can also take affect of how a print comes out.  If you do the custom profile option, this will match it more accurately and get the most out of the profile that is done per the printer location.

This is usually the way to achieve the best output for any paper (again, if you're very keen to match details/colors from screen); but also need to make sure your screen is calibrated to see what it will show on the media.  If you haven't calibrated the monitor, you may do many adjustments/corrections to get it to print properly (some don't do much and still like it).  There will really never be the perfect print, but you can surely get it very close; even with the best profile.

Hopefully this doesn't make you think you "NEED" a custom profile since it's user preference on output, but to usually achieve all colors the printer can offer, you'll most likely want to do this process.

[NAwlins_Contrarian]

I have been printing for 13 years on an Epson 7600 and 9600. Almost all of my work is on canvas. It looks like my 7600 has given up the ghost. I assume the 9600 does not have long way to go.  I believe that I only need a 24 inch printer. I haven't followed the new products in years so I would be grateful for any suggestions this forum  may have.

If you buy a 24-inch photo inkjet printer, then your options are:
* Epson P6000, effectively the current version of your 7600;
* Epson P7000, very similar to the P6000, but with the added green and orange inks for expanded gamut;
* Epson P7570, sort-of the replacement for the P7000, maybe just now becoming available, much faster than the P7000 but considerably more expensive;
* Canon Pro-2000, basically Canon's competitor to the P7000;
* Canon Pro-2100, the new version with some enhancements, mostly with media loading; and
* HP Z9+, basically HP's competitor to the P7000.

They all have their pros and cons.

[dennmorr]

Thanks everyone-fingers crossed!
Dennis

[I.T. Supplies]

We also do custom profiles with the same (latest) hardware.  You have your options to go through and make the profile match your environment more accurately than the canned profile.  Again, I'm not saying the manufacturer profile won't be good at all, but the custom profile process matches it to what the user has (their printer/media and environment), but it's based on the user and their eye to detail.

The P7570 is about 2.5x faster than P7000, has more features.  The price of what's it's selling at makes sense because it comes with more advanced features.  Still waiting for inventory from Epson to come in for the new models.

The Pro-2000 is no longer available and replaced by the Pro-2100.

HP Z6/9 only allow printing via Ethernet and are still fairly slow printing for similar quality.  But again, it's per user.

[digitaldog]

Since most manufacturer profiles are not made to achieve all the colors the paper can receive from the printer, your best option is to do a custom profile so that you're utilizing all the colors from the printer.  \

Care to explain that? Now not all manufactures profiles are created equally, even from the same company (like Epson).
Short of producing a target with 16.7 million patches (which is kind of impossible and the profile itself would be larger than many images), how does one produce a profile that achieve or doesn't achieve all the colors the paper can receive from the printer? 

Printer manufacturer do a generic paper profile that is done under their offices and won't "technically" be the same for where others will print.

"All generalizations are false, including this one".-Mark Twain
I've built a few profiles for Epson (http://pixelgenius.com/epson/), we produced a group of 5000 patches from half a dozen of the same make and model located all over the US, the data was averaged to build these profiles. Worst case scenario, the average dE difference among the same model was 0.5dE 2000. I can only speak of those printers on this site. But I can tell you that the differences in the behavior of these printers was an average that is an invisible difference.

[deanwork]

Mark Twain is usually right on.

Yea, I think that is true of both the Epson and Canon large format printers for about 8-10 years now in that they can do a great job with many paper manufacturers generic profiles..

I have the XRite i1 Pro equipment and do dual direction scan readings by hand, not ISIS, and I’ve been trying to make a better color profile than the generic Canson Platine one I have and I just don’t see any improvement. That’s using 2,040 or so patches. I think their heads are remarkably consistent also which is where a lot of the deviation would occur. I also find the generic Canson profiles for my Epson 7890 excellent also, but the Hahnemuehle ones, not so much for the Canon printer.

John




. I can only speak of those printers on this site. But I can tell you that the differences in the behavior of these printers was an average that is an invisible difference.
[/quote]

[Dan Wells]

Something very worth considering for an individual artist (it's not a big deal for a shop that prints every day) is that a Canon printer can be turned on and off at will. If you print a batch, then turn the Canon off for a month, then come back to it, it'll work just fine (it'll gurgle around and do an automatic head cleaning, but I've never had one fail). They do (eventually) blow through the head, which is a 5 minute job to replace, but costs $500 or so. The heads last long enough that neither I nor a couple of Canon-printing friends have ever had to replace one. One friend did, but the printer was about 7 years old. It's still ideal to let them sit as little as possible - but they don't hurt you like Epsons always have.

Epsons above the p800 don't like being turned off - they're getting better about it, but turning an Epson off for a month has historically meant multiple nozzle checks and head cleanings. If you get a permanent clog that kills the head, changing the head requires a service call and costs $2000 or so (really only worth it if the printer is a 60" or a relatively new 44") - you can almost always get a 24" printer for less than the cost of the repair plus the ink that comes with the new printer (and a 44" isn't that much more than the repair plus the ink).

I've had both (a couple of each) and now choose Canon, because they work better in individual artists' workflows. A lot of people who print for pay, and print every day, choose Epson because they don't have consumable heads. If you print enough to keep the clogs at bay, Epson heads can last forever, while you can print a Canon head into oblivion if you print enough.

In summary:
Epson - clogs if you don't print enough, head lasts forever if it doesn't clog. If you get a clog that kills the head, it kills the machine (unless it's under warranty or a 60").

Canon - works much better than Epson for individual artists, but commercial high-volume printers can blow the head. Blowing the head is a $500 issue (worth changing head on a 24" printer).

HP (never had one) - Head is a $100 item (although there are five of them, so changing all the heads is as expensive as changing Canon's one head). Big advantage if one color goes - just change the head that has that color plus one other. Don't seem to be as popular among photographers. Heads are a "real" consumable item - what I've read about older HPs is that the head lasts a few ink cartridges.

Both Epson and Canon (and I suspect HP, too - but I've never seen either a Z9+ or a print from one) offer excellent print quality and uncomplicated media loading. Epson has a slight media advantage in that the paper path is straight. I get really thick fine art media (Canson Infinity Aquarelle) through my Canon no problem - but you can feed an Epson sheet metal!!!

[budjames]

Something very worth considering for an individual artist (it's not a big deal for a shop that prints every day) is that a Canon printer can be turned on and off at will. If you print a batch, then turn the Canon off for a month, then come back to it, it'll work just fine (it'll gurgle around and do an automatic head cleaning, but I've never had one fail). They do (eventually) blow through the head, which is a 5 minute job to replace, but costs $500 or so. The heads last long enough that neither I nor a couple of Canon-printing friends have ever had to replace one. One friend did, but the printer was about 7 years old. It's still ideal to let them sit as little as possible - but they don't hurt you like Epsons always have.

Epsons above the p800 don't like being turned off - they're getting better about it, but turning an Epson off for a month has historically meant multiple nozzle checks and head cleanings. If you get a permanent clog that kills the head, changing the head requires a service call and costs $2000 or so (really only worth it if the printer is a 60" or a relatively new 44") - you can almost always get a 24" printer for less than the cost of the repair plus the ink that comes with the new printer (and a 44" isn't that much more than the repair plus the ink).

I've had both (a couple of each) and now choose Canon, because they work better in individual artists' workflows. A lot of people who print for pay, and print every day, choose Epson because they don't have consumable heads. If you print enough to keep the clogs at bay, Epson heads can last forever, while you can print a Canon head into oblivion if you print enough.

In summary:
Epson - clogs if you don't print enough, head lasts forever if it doesn't clog. If you get a clog that kills the head, it kills the machine (unless it's under warranty or a 60").

Canon - works much better than Epson for individual artists, but commercial high-volume printers can blow the head. Blowing the head is a $500 issue (worth changing head on a 24" printer).

HP (never had one) - Head is a $100 item (although there are five of them, so changing all the heads is as expensive as changing Canon's one head). Big advantage if one color goes - just change the head that has that color plus one other. Don't seem to be as popular among photographers. Heads are a "real" consumable item - what I've read about older HPs is that the head lasts a few ink cartridges.

Both Epson and Canon (and I suspect HP, too - but I've never seen either a Z9+ or a print from one) offer excellent print quality and uncomplicated media loading. Epson has a slight media advantage in that the paper path is straight. I get really thick fine art media (Canson Infinity Aquarelle) through my Canon no problem - but you can feed an Epson sheet metal!!!

I am a hobbyist and print on my Epson P800. My previous printer was the Epson 3880 and an Epson 3800 before that. My Epson P800 can be off for months at a time. When I turn it on to print, I have never had a head clog or problem with print quality with any of these models. It truly is amazing. Every generation improved the usability and print quality. I'm a big Epson fan.

I am consider the P7570 because I want to print larger than 17". I am concerned about the minimum usage of this printer in order to avoid problems. I have not read any reviews yet on this topic with the P7570 so I've been holding off. I might spring for the new P900 if I'm not comfortable with potential usage issues with the P7570. The P900 features inline photo/matte black ink switching which is a big plus as I won't have to waste a bunch of ink to switch between papers.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[dgberg]

Mark Twain is usually right on.

Yea, I think that is true of both the Epson and Canon large format printers for about 8-10 years now in that they can do a great job with many paper manufacturers generic profiles..

I have the XRite i1 Pro equipment and do dual direction scan readings by hand, not ISIS, and I’ve been trying to make a better color profile than the generic Canson Platine one I have and I just don’t see any improvement. That’s using 2,040 or so patches. I think their heads are remarkably consistent also which is where a lot of the deviation would occur. I also find the generic Canson profiles for my Epson 7890 excellent also, but the Hahnemuehle ones, not so much for the Canon printer.

John




. I can only speak of those printers on this site. But I can tell you that the differences in the behavior of these printers was an average that is an invisible difference.

I agree with John. I also have the i1 PhotoPro2 and have spent countless hours making and comparing profiles. Their really is no discernible difference between the mfg. profile and a custom profile..(IMO with pigment printers and paper)
Especially if you take into account the countless hours involved. The manufacturers profiles are that good.
I think trying to make a better profile for some just falls into the hobby category.
Some just like playing with the process for something to do and yes to sometimes get a better profile.
Where it was absolutely worth every minute of time spent was to make a new profile for my P8000 dye sub printer on Chromaluxe metal.
 Nothing available but to do myself. Could not be more pleased, the colors are spot on.

[digitaldog]

I am a hobbyist and print on my Epson P800. My previous printer was the Epson 3880 and an Epson 3800 before that. My Epson P800 can be off for months at a time. When I turn it on to print, I have never had a head clog or problem with print quality with any of these models. It truly is amazing. Every generation improved the usability and print quality. I'm a big Epson fan.

+1.
This new and somewhat silly urban legend that there's an issue turning off Epson printers needs to go away. It's nonsense. It doesn't jive with decades of my experience with Epson printers which is this: I've been a beta for Epson desktop (and some none desktop) printers for Epson dating back to the 1200. I was an instructor for the Epson Print Academy. I've never heard from anyone at Epson (Product Managers, Tech leads, marketing folks) about this urban legend, we never taught such a recommendation at the Epson Print Academy. I've experienced some awful products (the Epson 2000P falls into that example) but most have been superb and very reliable. Yes, my 4900 clogged if not used nearly every day. I hated it. But the opposite is true for my 3800/3880/P600; rock solid, can be off for many, many months without any issue including clogging. It makes ZERO sense Epson or anyone would design a product like this that can't be turned off. And AFAIK, they didn't.
I'll ask again and hope for an answer or this urban legend stops: WHO specifically at Epson stated their printers must be turned off or they will suffer damage. WHO???

[digitaldog]

Let me further add that there is absolutely nothing in the 3880 owner's manual or P800 user manual stating NOT to turn off the power. There's a power switch there for a reason.
If one examines the 3880 Service Manual, no such statement either however it does state:
The power switch for this printer is installed on the secondary
side of the power circuit; therefore, the power is always supplied unless the AC Cable is unplugged.
I suspect you'll see similar actual data from Epson in other printer manuals and service manuals.

[JRSmit]

Please elaborate on this. I know of at least 2 European paper manufacturers how their profiles are made. I make my own profiles, but also do evaluate manufacturers profiles. But I am keen to learn, so please elaborate.

Since most manufacturer profiles are not made to achieve all the colors the paper can receive from the printer, your best option is to do a custom profile so that you're utilizing all the colors from the printer.  The software (like X-rite's i1 Profiler) is able to properly read the patches that can than put the extra colors into the profile so that's it's available to work/use when using that paper on the printer it was done by.

Printer manufacturer do a generic paper profile that is done under their offices and won't "technically" be the same for where others will print.  Not saying that it won't look good (if the user isn't that keen to the details), but the user environment and what not can also take affect of how a print comes out.  If you do the custom profile option, this will match it more accurately and get the most out of the profile that is done per the printer location.

This is usually the way to achieve the best output for any paper (again, if you're very keen to match details/colors from screen); but also need to make sure your screen is calibrated to see what it will show on the media.  If you haven't calibrated the monitor, you may do many adjustments/corrections to get it to print properly (some don't do much and still like it).  There will really never be the perfect print, but you can surely get it very close; even with the best profile.

Hopefully this doesn't make you think you "NEED" a custom profile since it's user preference on output, but to usually achieve all colors the printer can offer, you'll most likely want to do this process.

[budjames]

I'll ask again and hope for an answer or this urban legend stops: WHO specifically at Epson stated their printers must be turned off or they will suffer damage. WHO???

[/quote]
It was probably the Canon rep.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[kers]

About the HP machines i only can say about the printheads;  That they are made to last 2000ml of ink and have a 18 month garantee.
In reality they can last longer or shorter, but you get a replacement if it fails within 18 months ( or 1000ml) they cost about 80$...

[budjames]

I agree with John. I also have the i1 PhotoPro2 and have spent countless hours making and comparing profiles. Their really is no discernible difference between the mfg. profile and a custom profile..(IMO with pigment printers and paper)
Especially if you take into account the countless hours involved. The manufacturers profiles are that good.
I think trying to make a better profile for some just falls into the hobby category.
Some just like playing with the process for something to do and yes to sometimes get a better profile.
Where it was absolutely worth every minute of time spent was to make a new profile for my P8000 dye sub printer on Chromaluxe metal.
 Nothing available but to do myself. Could not be more pleased, the colors are spot on.

+1
I agree 100%. I use only Epson papers and the results with profiles built-in to my Epson P800 provide awesome results. Very happy!

I am a hobbyist too, so I'm looking forward to upgrading the P900 so that I don't have to do an expensive ink swap to print on matte papers.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.