Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.  (Read 658 times)

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2214
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« on: December 04, 2019, 02:17:41 pm »

Making the big leap from pigment to Solvent. Have not ordered one yet but think I have made up my mind. I looked really hard at the HP 315 Latex for its durability on canvas but the gamut just does not match the 9 color Epson. Still a little nervous about the durability of solvent over canvas? Over on Signs 101
I had equal comments on good vs bad for both. The biggest negative for me was the size and the price. The thing is huge. Don't really need 64" but Epson doesn't make a 54" unit. I looked at the Roland RF 54 but was talked out of it as being more of a signage printer.
Reason for the change to solvent is to get rid of the extended drying after printing canvas and the real biggie, no more spraying.
My last batch of 92 large framed canvases took 4 total days of drying. If you have ever tried to find space to dry that many prints after printing and then again after spraying it just shuts everything else down. You still need time to let these dry too so I may just get the optional dryer and that settles that.
Other negatives for me are that the Onyx rip is pc driven. So I have to get a pc laptop to run the darn thing. (Swore I would never get another pc)
The guy that sold me on this printer was photographer Dennis Goodman from Naples, Fl. I was at the Naples Airport and hanging in the general aviation terminal are about 20 large canvas prints, the best I have ever seen. Saturated, sharp and they just had pop I have never seen before.
Called him up this week and he could not speak more highly of his Epson S80600. He is also a one man shop and that meant a lot.
As the saying goes "spending my kids inheritance"  Wait till my 3 kids find out they were each gifted a printer..
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 02:24:19 pm by dgberg »
Logged

mcbroomf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 949
    • Mike Broomfield
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2019, 02:28:47 pm »

Just saw this Dan.  So will you convert your P8000 back to pigment?
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2214
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2019, 02:36:12 pm »

No the P8000 has dye sublimation ink for my metal print business so I need that.
Will keep the 9900 for matte and photo paper printing but sell the HPz3200.
 Actually a great printer but just on the slow side for volume printing.

mearussi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 471
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2019, 09:04:22 pm »

Got a sample from Epson and though it looked good it didn't seem to be up to the level of an aqueous printer in IQ. Hopefully you'll do a direct comparison to your 9900 and let us know what you find.
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2214
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2019, 10:00:47 pm »

I have samples on the way, B&W and color. From the Epson Solvent and HP Latex.
Although I have seen full size solvent prints in Fl. and they looked really good.
Gonna keep that 9900 until it dies on me.
Think my mind is pretty well made up on the printer selection, not so much on the money part.

bteifeld

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2019, 09:26:53 am »

Before you buy this machine, please compel Epson to give you permanence information of the extended gamut inks. Roland's RF-640 8 color machine has extended gamut ink permanence information which indicates that perceivable fading happens after one year.
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2214
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2019, 10:27:26 am »

Good point. The sign guys do not seem to care as they get to reprint.
I do care!

Lessbones

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2019, 11:14:49 am »

You can run it on a mac (or linux) if you use Caldera instead of Onyx, but be prepared to do a LOT more work in color management.  Both Onyx and Caldera have RGB modes (I'm almost positive about this, but like 95%) so you'll be able to make pretty easy profiles, but definitely don't expect any OOB ICC profiles to be particularly good for the medias you choose...  Also, you might want to look into ventilation-- even though companies like to claim that their current solvent offerings don't give off VOCs in high dosages anymore, they can sure still make your whole building smell like a tire factory.
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2214
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2019, 12:20:40 pm »

I can turn my explosive proof fan on and take care of the odor.
Having to use a rip is almost keeping me from buying this thing.
I am an old school Mac guy and the idea of having to get a pc to run this thing is driving me nuts. I dumped my Epson 4880 dye sub printer because it was pc driven.
I have printed out of Lightroom since the first version and use A I Gigapixel and On1 Perfect Resize for mirroring and uprezzing.
Have not discussed with the sales guys yet but am assuming I must export these all to a stick and then go plug it into the pc to take it from there?
I plan on using 2 medias on this machine. A semi gloss and gloss canvas, everything else gets printed on pigment printers.
Many things to get answered before I pull the switch.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 12:26:56 pm by dgberg »
Logged

bteifeld

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2019, 12:31:28 pm »

Ergosoft is what I use as a rip, and its original user population had quite a few fine art/photo folks. Today
it is primarily used in dye sublimation and textile printing. You may want to consider it. The profiling
is done in halftone mode where you have control over almost everything, as well as contone mode
which many would know as the RGB/microsoft printer approach. I don't know if they have a contone
driver for the S80600.

Regrettably, based on your preferences, Ergosoft is PC/Windows-based. You can use hotfolders
as a way to avoid sneakernet approaches provided you can handle SMB shares on your MAC.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 12:34:40 pm by bteifeld »
Logged

Lessbones

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2019, 02:06:55 pm »

I am an old school Mac guy and the idea of having to get a pc to run this thing is driving me nuts. I dumped my Epson 4880 dye sub printer because it was pc driven.

my gut feeling is that this machine is going to seriously try your patience-- running a solvent printer requires a large amount of manual maintenance, and the software you'll be using is going to be 100x more complex than printing from lightroom...  It may be worth it if you're doing vast majority canvas printing, but I would expect a significant learning curve.  Don't expect this thing to be anything like the consumer offerings from Epson-- you're headed for the land of complete self reliance.  Caldera is a very good RIP, so I don't see why you wouldn't consider that instead of Onyx to run on a mac unless Onyx is included in the price of the printer.  Shiraz also seems to have a RIP that works with a mac-based server, but I don't have any experience with it, so I can't really recommend it.

AFAIK Ergosoft doesn't doesn't have RGB workflows.
Logged

Richard.Wills

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 118
    • Photofusion Photography Centre
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 07:04:30 am »

Although I do all my file prep in LR, I wouldn't be without a decent RIP to drive a commercial printer. For the last 8ish years, that's been various versions of EFi - came with my Canon 8300/8400, and is a massive productivity improvement, over using any print driver I've found so far.

A PC can be controlled by remote desktop, so you have the option of running a machine headless, and you may even be able to drive it in something like parallels.

Yes, a rip, and a pc can be a pita to set up, but they are merely tools...
Logged

Panagiotis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2019, 11:07:28 am »

Although I do all my file prep in LR, I wouldn't be without a decent RIP to drive a commercial printer. For the last 8ish years, that's been various versions of EFi - came with my Canon 8300/8400, and is a massive productivity improvement, over using any print driver I've found so far.

A PC can be controlled by remote desktop, so you have the option of running a machine headless, and you may even be able to drive it in something like parallels.

Yes, a rip, and a pc can be a pita to set up, but they are merely tools...

Sounds interesting. I took a look at the efi.com website and I was completely lost about the various software combinations. Then I search for the  prices and it seems to cost a lot. Which components do you use and find invaluable. Does it use the Canon driver or not? If not how it's is screening algorithms compared to Canon's? Does it produce finer detail? Is the BW better? Do you use the color management module? Is it better that building custom profiles with X-rite iProfiler for example? Thanks for any input...
Logged

Lessbones

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2019, 11:26:45 am »

Does it produce finer detail? Is the BW better? Do you use the color management module? Is it better that building custom profiles with X-rite iProfiler for example?

I would say "no" to all of the above, pretty resolutely.  I use EFI daily and I build all of my profiles in i1profiler using the RGB workflow.  This doesn't use the canon driver per se, but it does use the printer's internal separations, and therefore it uses the Canon OEM screening.  If you were to print using the CT mode you would be able to do custom CMYK conversion, but you're still using the printer's internal separations to the 12 inks, and therefore still using the same screening-- the only way you would get different screening is if there were a "HT" (halftone) module, but EFI hasn't made one for these printers.  So essentially you're getting the same thing as using the Canon driver, but with vastly better workflow management.  I've always despised EFI's color profiling software, and even when making contract proofs I generate profiles through i1profiler/basiccolor/argyll then optimize through EFI to hit the proofing condition.

So unless you're printing a ton of smaller prints or running lots of different machines simultaneously, you're really just paying for the nesting ability--
Logged

Panagiotis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2019, 11:46:51 am »

I would say "no" to all of the above, pretty resolutely.  I use EFI daily and I build all of my profiles in i1profiler using the RGB workflow.  This doesn't use the canon driver per se, but it does use the printer's internal separations, and therefore it uses the Canon OEM screening.  If you were to print using the CT mode you would be able to do custom CMYK conversion, but you're still using the printer's internal separations to the 12 inks, and therefore still using the same screening-- the only way you would get different screening is if there were a "HT" (halftone) module, but EFI hasn't made one for these printers.  So essentially you're getting the same thing as using the Canon driver, but with vastly better workflow management.  I've always despised EFI's color profiling software, and even when making contract proofs I generate profiles through i1profiler/basiccolor/argyll then optimize through EFI to hit the proofing condition.

So unless you're printing a ton of smaller prints or running lots of different machines simultaneously, you're really just paying for the nesting ability--

Very clear answer. Thank you!
Logged

Stephen Ray

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 178
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2019, 12:10:09 pm »

my gut feeling is that this machine is going to seriously try your patience-- running a solvent printer requires a large amount of manual maintenance, and the software you'll be using is going to be 100x more complex than printing from lightroom...  It may be worth it if you're doing vast majority canvas printing, but I would expect a significant learning curve.

1) I disagree, regarding this particular machine. Super easy to maintain.

2) IMO, you're exaggerating x100 regarding the RIP software.

3) I definitely agree regarding the learning curve as it's significant, but that's what makes a print-maker a better print-maker.

I, too, am surprised the OP has not been using a RIP with the amount of production seemingly produced from what I see at the website. The machine can offer much more capability and opportunity.
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2214
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2019, 05:46:19 pm »

A couple of pictures showing why I want to get rid of my sprayed canvas and all other associated drying issues.
This batch was 92 canvas on gator in metal frames and the next batch I am told is 135. Not much time to decide.

Richard.Wills

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 118
    • Photofusion Photography Centre
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2019, 06:22:26 pm »

First off, loving the studio - you must have mighty nimble feet.

2nd, have not bothered with EFI's profiling - using the RGB path, and Profiler to generate profiles. Learning curve was no worse than proof master years ago, and documentaion for using the RIP is properly written (unlike several other applications I could happily curse, and use daily). A RIP is a productivity boost, as once set up, you have queues that require no messing around with driver settings, and continuosly saves a log of outputs, saving (me) from keeping a written track of every detail of print outputs. I'm using EFI express designer edition - came with my first Canon, and they gave me an upgrade to Designer with the second one. Nesting is good, being able to add job tickets, and set offset of them, as well as trim lines, is a real boost.

Regarding the print longevity, that is the biggest issue. I've been (lightly) looking at eco solvent and UV curable options, and it seems that the straight CMYK sets are often rated for 7+ years outdoor (could be Texas, or Dubai), but that some of the white / spot options are not rated as long. I've read things in the past from Scott Martin about taming and controlling the quality of output from grand format printers, and there are a couple of production houses here in London, who bridge between graphics and art production, so I'm sure that there are inksets that will reach a level of 30, 40, 50+ years interior display.

If the Epson inksets have sufficient life expectancy, then the productivity boost of moving away from spraying would be huge. Even if you decide to cheat, and get a vendor / consultant in to set up a RIP, and PC... I think that 80600 could seriously reduce production times.

We've recently moved into what were office buildings, and every so often, I look up at the grid supporting the suspended ceiling, and think about how that would make a real good static drying line. Every time I have a big show to put together, my biggest bottle neck is landing zones - end up taping prints around the walls of the corridors and offices.

These look to be wall decor, rather than long term gallery art, 135 pieces could cover a fair part of the purchase, install and set up cost. If I had the space, I'd be likely to jump.
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2214
    • http://bergscanvasgallery.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2019, 06:49:09 pm »

Thanks for your comments Richard.
All hanging in one of our local hospitals.
The images were submitted by our local photography club. The interior design gal then went through the several hundred entries and chose this batch. Every time they build another wing or a satellite care center we get another order. The members are paid for the images but they voted to give all the money back to the club, nice.
My hands are finally starting to heal from the baby cuts from cutting and handling all those metal frame parts.
I have limited space but the z3200 has to go to make room.

Richard.Wills

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 118
    • Photofusion Photography Centre
Re: Moving to an Epson Solvent S80600.
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2019, 07:11:59 pm »

Boxes of black nitryl gloves - $10  /100 sets of second skin - they take the first cut from the frame instead of you.

A build a jig - in my case, a 30x40" scrap of dibond, with Forex taped (bonded) precisely into two adjacent sides - allows you to assemble the frames with less hand interaction. I cheat and get all frame / subframe cut by supplier, but it still has those little razor tooth edges.

Hospital decor is <10yr internal, so that part of the Epson equation is moot, as is most interior decor.

If cash flow allows, I'd rent a storage unit until the spring, and stick the leather sofa in it - lets you keep the z3200 around, should you have any issues  with a new machine :)
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up