Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?  (Read 982 times)

Dinarius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« on: December 02, 2019, 01:46:54 pm »

In LR, is there an equivalent to CaptureOne's Base Characteristics > Linear, or Hasselblad's Reproduction > Low Gain?

Apologies in advance if I'm going blind!  :-\

Thanks.

D.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15800
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2019, 01:52:03 pm »

Can't comment on what CaptureOne does but there is indeed a Linear Curve option in LR:

Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Dinarius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 02:01:12 pm »

Thanks.

But, in C1 and Phocus, it can be applied to the RAW file, so that what you start editing with isn’t the software’s predetermined idea of what the file should look like, but closer to what was captured.

So, no initial brightness/contrast/saturation applied.

In C1 you apply it on import, stripping the file of C1’s “look”. In Phocus you can capture tethered to what they call “low gain”, which is even flatter.

Since they have to put a preview curve into LR when the create it, you would think that having the option to remove it would be easily done.

Is always my starting point in both C1 and Phocus.

D.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15800
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 03:13:25 pm »

But, in C1 and Phocus, it can be applied to the RAW file, so that what you start editing with isn’t the software’s predetermined idea of what the file should look like, but closer to what was captured.
If that's what they say....
You want scene referred, which is closer to what was captured, there's this:
http://www.color.org/scene-referred.xalter
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

DP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 09:10:17 pm »

In LR, is there an equivalent to CaptureOne's Base Characteristics > Linear
linear scientific is more "linear" than linear  ;D
Logged

Dinarius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2019, 01:44:39 am »

linear scientific is more "linear" than linear  ;D

Yes, equivalent to Hasselblad's Low Gain, I think.

Odd that LR doesn't have something like it.

D.
Logged

FranciscoDisilvestro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1511
    • Frank Disilvestro
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2019, 05:07:15 am »

The closest you can get in LR to a linear curve is to:

- Change process to version 2 (PV 2010) in the "Calibration" panel
- Change Point curve to Linear in the "Tone Curve" panel (Medium contrast is the default for version 2)
- Set all adjustments to zero in the "Basic" panel

E. Dinur

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 03:40:44 am »

In P.V. 4/5, LR and ACR make two back-stage adjustments, to exposure and contrast, before your image appears on-screen. The contrast curve can be essentially canceled by creating a -33 default for Contrast. To counteract the exposure adjustment you need to do a little research first. For each combination of camera model and ISO, Adobe has calculated a correction called Baseline Exposure. To discover the BLE you need to convert a proprietary Raw to DNG, where it is listed in the Exif. Thus a BLE of +.32 can be canceled by Exposure = -32. (LR/ACR  custom defaults can be set by camera and ISO.)

Sources:
Michael Frye, Landscape in LR 5
https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/deriving-hidden-ble-compensation
Logged

Dinarius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 03:55:03 am »

Thanks both, but, seriously, one addition to a drop-down menu would sort it.

We don't need Adobe's idea of what our photographs should look like opening in LR. Or, at the very least, there should be choice.

D.
Logged

E. Dinur

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2019, 04:35:19 am »

 Make custom defaults and you will never have think about it again.
Logged

E. Dinur

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 05:02:45 am »

"We don't need Adobe's idea of what our photographs should look like opening in LR. Or, at the very least, there should be choice."

You represent one end of a wide span of users' desires and expectations - from those who want minimal Adobe input and the possibility of a maxim of carefully crafted user-side content to those who want a one-click to finalized, museum-quality fast food, AI processed product. I think Adobe has done an acceptable job of making the app flexible and customizable by defaults and presets. I don't think an endless menu of user design requests would be desirable.
Logged

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2544
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2019, 05:58:51 am »

In LR, is there an equivalent to CaptureOne's Base Characteristics > Linear, or Hasselblad's Reproduction > Low Gain?

Apologies in advance if I'm going blind!  :-\

Thanks.

D.

Maybe you could try to set the profile in top of the basic panel to neutral or flat.
Logged

Dinarius

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2019, 07:58:40 am »

"We don't need Adobe's idea of what our photographs should look like opening in LR. Or, at the very least, there should be choice."

You represent one end of a wide span of users' desires and expectations - from those who want minimal Adobe input and the possibility of a maxim of carefully crafted user-side content to those who want a one-click to finalized, museum-quality fast food, AI processed product. I think Adobe has done an acceptable job of making the app flexible and customizable by defaults and presets. I don't think an endless menu of user design requests would be desirable.

Totally disagree.

This is a simple addition which is available as part of other software applications.

When you take a photograph on your phone, you see a software engineer's (luminance/contrast/saturation curve) impression of what your photograph should look like.

When you open an image in LR, C1 or Phocus, you get a glorified version of same. It should be possible to remove it.

It's the difference between pro and pro/am.

That said, if LR satisfies the needs of pros here, then great.

I'd like to be able to use it for certain things. Lens correction is better than C1, for example.

But, the absence of a linear curve starting point is a deal breaker for me. Any creation by me of a preset can only be an educated guess as to how much I should extract from the image, I would have thought.

D.
Logged

ButchM

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 740
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 08:31:59 am »

Totally disagree.

This is a simple addition which is available as part of other software applications.

If you want a simple fix ... E. Dinur nailed it.

Make custom defaults and you will never have think about it again.


Quote
It's the difference between pro and pro/am.

Poppycock ... the 'difference' between pro and pro/am has absolutely nothing to do with how many (or how few) sliders the photographer in question adjusts in their RAW conversion software. Clients don't give a wit about how much time or effort was invested after capture ... they just want results. It matters not to them how the sausage was made.

The truest definition of a professional photographer is if they live up to their client's expectations by delivering their works on time, of a quality as commissioned and at the price agreed upon beforehand. How the individual photographer achieves that goal is ultimately inconsequential.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15800
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2019, 08:45:30 am »

Thanks both, but, seriously, one addition to a drop-down menu would sort it.

We don't need Adobe's idea of what our photographs should look like opening in LR. Or, at the very least, there should be choice.

D.
I think you need to figure out what you really want. I don’t think you’re clear on what you really want. You said you "want a file that’s closer to what the camera actually captured". That’s called scene referred. And I provided a URL by the ICC on how you can get that in the in the ACR engine so now the question is is that what you really want, scene referred?

http://www.color.org/ICC_white_paper_20_Digital_photography_color_management_basics.pdf
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2544
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Lightroom Classic - flattened Curve?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2019, 11:02:57 am »

...
That said, if LR satisfies the needs of pros here, then great.

I'd like to be able to use it for certain things. Lens correction is better than C1, for example.

But, the absence of a linear curve starting point is a deal breaker for me. Any creation by me of a preset can only be an educated guess as to how much I should extract from the image, I would have thought.

D.

Again , If you start in LR with a RAW profile that is Flat or Neutral you have about the same basic starting point as the linear curve in Phase One.
You find that profile in the Basic menu on top.

I agree that there are many lensprofiles missing in Phase one. One reason i have to stick to LR.
I just printed some examples to compare the RAW engines in Capture One and LR and although they look different on screen in print the differences are less important
I see that C1 has some special features missing in LR that are indeed very interesting, for instance how it deals with skin colour.
Having said that i have enough to learn to fully understand Capture One...



Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up