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Author Topic: Goodbye, farewell and amen  (Read 1734 times)

Robert-Peter Westphal

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Goodbye, farewell and amen
« on: December 01, 2019, 12:51:47 pm »

Hello,

my subscription to this forum will end by 3rd of December, and I will not go on here. It is not due to the financial aspect, but Luminous-landscapes doesn't give me anything I need to improve my photography, nor anything which is of interest for me.
I'm really sorry, I'm member of this site since many years, but now the time has come to quit.

Goodbye to all members and have a great time !

Yours Robert
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2019, 12:54:49 pm »

This forum is free, only the website costs money.
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Rob C

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 11:14:05 am »

Hello,

my subscription to this forum will end by 3rd of December, and I will not go on here. It is not due to the financial aspect, but Luminous-landscapes doesn't give me anything I need to improve my photography, nor anything which is of interest for me.
I'm really sorry, I'm member of this site since many years, but now the time has come to quit.

Goodbye to all members and have a great time !

Yours Robert

Take care, enjoy your photography in the future.

Rob

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2019, 08:44:55 am »

The problem with LuLa at present is the articles on the home page are not of the same quality as in the past.  It may be that the technology is pretty stable these days and new advances in digital imaging and printing no longer warrant the types of product coverage that LuLa had several years ago.  I no longer visit the home page these days.  Earlier this year when I was shopping for a new printer to replace my dead Epson 3880, I found the printer reviews by Mark Segal extremely useful in helping me to make a decision.  As a result of the lack of interest in the main articles, I too have decided not to pay for another year's membership. 

Some of the forums are still useful but others see very little traffic. 
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Les Sparks

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2019, 01:03:49 pm »

The problem I have with the home page articles is that there is nothing like the quality of the shooting with the masters series. There have been a few nice videos of interesting photographers and interesting places. But they lacked the information contained in the shooting with the masters.
The recent articles have been by a few authors 5 by Josh and 7 by Dan Wells. (see the list of 17 articles displayed in the Dec 3 front page.)
I'm planning on sticking around for another year to see how things go but I really hope of a wider section of authors and more emphasis on photography.
Les
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Rob C

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2019, 01:15:30 pm »

The problem with LuLa at present is the articles on the home page are not of the same quality as in the past.  It may be that the technology is pretty stable these days and new advances in digital imaging and printing no longer warrant the types of product coverage that LuLa had several years ago.  I no longer visit the home page these days.  Earlier this year when I was shopping for a new printer to replace my dead Epson 3880, I found the printer reviews by Mark Segal extremely useful in helping me to make a decision.  As a result of the lack of interest in the main articles, I too have decided not to pay for another year's membership. 

Some of the forums are still useful but others see very little traffic.


I don't see the articles in LuLa Mk 2 but I always saw the ones in the original incarnation.

As consequence to the above, I'm in no position to judge the relative value of the new ones. However, I can't, either, say that all that was published towards the end of that former regime was wonderful. Frankly, in my eyes, it was nothing but a simple quest for the latest and, thus (by implied definition), best, with a typically commercial slant that made belief difficult to maintain. It smacked of the shill, if you will, and the Leica visits towards the end were, for me, acutely embarrassing due to their fawning atmosphere. It was as a report of an audience with the Pope might read, if written by the head of the Swiss Guard.

Frankly, as others suggest, the basic problem lies in the lack of new products of great import. With digital snapping tools now pretty much understood and evenly distributed across the marques, forums need to focus on photography rather than its tools, and there just aren't that many interesting photographers around with the time or interest to contribute to the photographic social networks, of which this is a part.

There was the attempt, as there had been with the paper magazines, to float travel adventures as an alternative or additional draw, but as those events have little to do with photographers in general, all they can do is provide a revenue stream, which is not the same thing as providing an interesting site.

It's my belief that there is just not enough critical mass to sustain photographic websites if the attraction is predicated upon a constant supply of new equipment to review; the comments here are usually all from the same group of writers, and they surely can't all be buying new cameras every week - can they? Bringing it to the personal, the last thing I want to do is waste more money buying new stuff that won't make me one degree better as a photographer. Maybe many folks understand that point and share it; enough really is sometimes enough. The interest, the draw, eventually has to come from looking at exciting pictures - from somewhere.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 01:18:46 pm by Rob C »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2019, 02:37:37 pm »


It's my belief that there is just not enough critical mass to sustain photographic websites if the attraction is predicated upon a constant supply of new equipment to review; the comments here are usually all from the same group of writers, and they surely can't all be buying new cameras every week - can they? Bringing it to the personal, the last thing I want to do is waste more money buying new stuff that won't make me one degree better as a photographer. Maybe many folks understand that point and share it; enough really is sometimes enough. The interest, the draw, eventually has to come from looking at exciting pictures - from somewhere.
There are about five sections in the forum that are useful and a good place to both ask technical questions and offer assistance when one can (color management, some software issues, printing and practical experience with new cameras/lenses; not reviews).  Those I continue to find valuable. 

In my mind it's always useful to hear what experiences others have had, particularly when there will be a money investment in equipment or software. 
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Rob C

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 06:05:16 am »

There are about five sections in the forum that are useful and a good place to both ask technical questions and offer assistance when one can (color management, some software issues, printing and practical experience with new cameras/lenses; not reviews).  Those I continue to find valuable. 

In my mind it's always useful to hear what experiences others have had, particularly when there will be a money investment in equipment or software.

That was one of my points: what does new equipment bring you that skill would not? It's the buying of new in the hope of it making us better that's the silly bit, if we already have working equipment.

Don't believe me? None of the greats had af; none required it. Ditto zooms and/or f0.90 lenses.

The tragedy of much photography is that many still believe the wallet makes them better photographers.

That said, if the buying of new is unashamedly the buzz, more power to the elbow - and wallet; and may they both live happily together for ever more in perfect synchrony.

;-)

stamper

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 07:08:47 am »

If someone is stuck in a rut then a new camera or lens might encourage them to get out and find new possibilities?

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2019, 09:15:38 am »

That was one of my points: what does new equipment bring you that skill would not? It's the buying of new in the hope of it making us better that's the silly bit, if we already have working equipment.

Don't believe me? None of the greats had af; none required it. Ditto zooms and/or f0.90 lenses.

The tragedy of much photography is that many still believe the wallet makes them better photographers.

That said, if the buying of new is unashamedly the buzz, more power to the elbow - and wallet; and may they both live happily together for ever more in perfect synchrony.

;-)
Rob,

There was always an evolution in camera design:  glass plates -> sheet film -> 35mm -> view cameras -> Leica -> SLR (including medium format) -> DSLR -> mirrorless   There are probably very few on LuLa who still shoot with film.  If you look at the advances since the introduction of DSLRs it is very difficult to rationalize sticking with a camera that only had a 6mp sensor.  My point is not rushing out to purchase new gear every year but to intelligently figure out what one's needs are and then decide.  These days a good cell phone camera may be all that one needs and perhaps the declining sales of stand alone digital cameras reflects that.  Several months ago I printed a very nice image my wife took with her cell phone in New Zealand at 13x19 inches.  It looks quite good and at a normal viewing distance one probably could not tell that it was shot with a cell phone.  I bought a Nikon Z6 earlier this year as the weight of my old Nikon D800 and associated zoom lens was a tad to unwieldy for travel.  The Z6 has IBIS which gives extremely sharp images when hand held.  I don't need more than the 24mp this camera offers.  It's compact enough for both street and landscape use and likely is the last camera I will purchase.  I may get a prime lens in addition to the 24-70 f4 that came with the camera but that would be it.

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Rob C

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 09:24:25 am »

If someone is stuck in a rut then a new camera or lens might encourage them to get out and find new possibilities?

That can be the case if they get a pretty exotic new lens. However, it's often a shallow encouragement or motivator that doesn't maintain its potency. Familiarity can breed contempt, but certainly not always. I would say that the move to digital had that effect on me, because for the first time that I can remember since retiring, I started to shoot in some volume without a constant eye on the bottom line.

Fortunately, I had already restocked my lens arsenal after the silly move to total reliance on 120 format cameras, because I'd bought back into Nikon long before digital. I think the only thing I had not rebought prior to going digital was the 500 reflex lens, because I saw no future work for it. But, once happy with digi, I did buy one again, and the ability to use a high ISO with it (a fixed f8 probem) did allow me to get things crisp. That said, and nature (mine) being contrary, I ended up shooting much more with everything intentionally OOF just to play with the doughnuts.

But more importantly, and back to your point, after an initial summer of use a few years ago, it has not been enough to drive me back out recently to play with it. I really think that the "encouragement" process, to work, has to begin not with the purchase of a new lens, but with a deep desire for a particular sort of image that the new optic will facilitate.

Rob

P.S.

Actually, I discovered that the most lasting thing that happened on buying digital was that the cut-frame camera (D200), with the standard 1.8/50mm (effective 75mm), became an almost constant fixture. I have an FF D700 and hardly use it, probably because of that effective 75mm and lack of desire for buying and carting around an 85mm. At 10mp, the D200 gave me great A3+ when I was still printing, as did the only slighter more mps (12) of the D700. Frankly, my colour or back/white conversions from Kodachrome 64 pro 35mm slides are just a good as from either digital source at my disposal... so much depends on how you process the digital file and how you want the end product to look.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 10:23:27 am by Rob C »
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ramd41@gmail.com

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 11:38:17 pm »

It was pretty obvious since Josh took this over that the quality of Lula unfortunately, noticeably declined.  Although there is occasionally an article of interest, it is much rarer than it used to be.  Starting with the badly handled transition to Josh to articles of lesser interest - I totally agree with the comment about the Master series, nothing even close to that has appeared - it's just not the go-to site that, for many of us, it used to be.  And, no, I don't think it's about the lack of exciting new equipment.  Lula used to be a learning place, whether it was about equipment or technique.  No longer.  Now, it is about Josh's self-indulgent writing that I find terribly off-putting.
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Rob C

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2019, 04:55:08 am »

It was pretty obvious since Josh took this over that the quality of Lula unfortunately, noticeably declined.  Although there is occasionally an article of interest, it is much rarer than it used to be.  Starting with the badly handled transition to Josh to articles of lesser interest - I totally agree with the comment about the Master series, nothing even close to that has appeared - it's just not the go-to site that, for many of us, it used to be.  And, no, I don't think it's about the lack of exciting new equipment.  Lula used to be a learning place, whether it was about equipment or technique.  No longer.  Now, it is about Josh's self-indulgent writing that I find terribly off-putting.

Well there you go: I never read his writings because I have no access to the pay-for bits of the site. As such, I cannot comment on his musings. But, as with the single member of this site whose posts I have blocked, it makes no negative difference to my life and I can still enjoy the bits of LuLa that interest me.

Pretending that the writing immediately previous to Josh's time was in any way wonderful is surprising: I often found it quite tedious. As with the video "performances", a lot less was often a lot more; I think Chris Sanderson did a wonderful job in getting anything out of the process and making a show for us to see. There is a reason why superstars become superstars and the rest not even eye candy.

As far as I can tell, all the expertise upon which you need to draw to get yourself going in digital photography and printing is still freely available on LuLa, from those very experts who have historically been so generous with both time and patience. What more does anybody require?

If LuLa was ever meant to be a learning-only place, then it would have no long-term membership. Once you know what's what and can fly with your own wings, you would move on to something or somewhere more fulfilling of your newly discovered abilities. How many times a day, week, month, year or even decade do you go back to visit your old school? I have never been back.

However, unlike school, LuLa has provided a meeting place - a forum, would you believe? - where one can correspond with people one likes by choice, not from any sense of obligation to something larger.

Master series. Be wary of developing crushes on any photographic hero; perhaps the worst aspect of the now technically possible access to them that the Internet allows, is that when you see a few interviews with them, they mostly turn out to be little more than endless loops running the same jokes and contrived anecdotes. It's like watching several different takes of the same scene, and wishing the editor would make up his mind and settle for one goddam cut! The graveyards of heroes are littered with the remains of their shattered feet of clay. If you can find two or three with whom you can travel the course of your life, you have done well; many more than that and you have just let your judgement slip right on down and over the cliff.

Interesting articles demand two things: interesting topics and capable, imaginative writers. In this modern photographic world, we have pretty much consumed them all. The supply is not infinite.

If one wants to make LuLa interesting, then become a nett contributor, not just a reader who, in other than fiscal terms, can contribute nothing. It's the chat between members and enjoyment of some occasional photographs that make it all worth the electricity bill.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2019, 05:55:29 am »

If someone is stuck in a rut then a new camera or lens might encourage them to get out and find new possibilities?

+1

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2019, 06:06:33 am »

... what does new equipment bring you that skill would not? It's the buying of new in the hope of it making us better that's the silly bit, if we already have working equipment...

Says the man who finds esthetic pleasure in an expensive bunch of metal and glass that tells time ;)

Who says that the only reason is to make us better photographers? Like with watches, there is esthetics, handling, comfort, convenience, new features (e.g., eye focus), the new spark that comes with a new toy, etc.

I just sold all five of my DSLRs, plus a film Hasselblad, and replaced it with a mirrorless Canon R. New fun, new options, new opportunities.

Rob C

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2019, 06:52:31 am »

1. Says the man who finds esthetic pleasure in an expensive bunch of metal and glass that tells time ;)

2. Who says that the only reason is to make us better photographers? Like with watches, there is esthetics, handling, comfort, convenience, new features (e.g., eye focus), the new spark that comes with a new toy, etc.

3. I just sold all five of my DSLRs, plus a film Hasselblad, and replaced it with a mirrorless Canon R. New fun, new options, new opportunities.


1.  That Rolex Submariner was meant to be for life, and after forty-seven years, was well on its way to being just that, and would have been, and on to my son after me, but for that thieving street rat bitch.

2.  One could have said the same as I have in (1) for a Leica M3 or my Nikon F, and but for the fact that I was a pro and always needed a spare "just in case", as with my 500C that had to have a 500C/M friend for the very same professional reason, I might never have felt obliged to buy an F2. The FM and FM2 came for a single reason: higher flash synch. for the few times I used flash instead of what God offered. None of it was bought on caprice. Toys are for children.

3.  Quite why anyone truly needs five DSLRs is beyond me. Why a mirrorless camera would provide "New fun, new options, new opportunities." is even further beyond me. I see nothing in your work or mine that a reflex camera of quality could not let us do. None of the founding street heroes had "eye focus" in their Leicas; it didn't prevent them making better snaps than most of us here. Frankly, as so little work is normally shot wide open, especially with human subjects, it seems like a load of old cobblers to me, just one more desperate feature to shift slow sales... It would not have made my career one iota better, and depending on such crap may have made it a damned sight shorter!

Rob
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 09:08:19 am by Rob C »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2019, 08:37:06 am »

3.  Quite why anyone truly needs five DSLRs is beyond me...

I was just lazy in selling the older ones. I had Canons 20D, 40D, 60D, 6D, and 5Ds. Or 8, 10, 18, 20, and 50 Mpx. 

As for some other points of yours, it is worth noting that the success of HCB’s street photography was predicated, to a large degree, on availability of the then-state of the art equipment: small, unobtrusive Leica. Using your logic, he should’ve been just as successful with a 4x5 Graflex.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 08:43:43 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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SharonVL

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2019, 09:02:23 am »

i will renew my membership on December 31st. I appreciate the direction Josh has taken. His dad is not replaceable. Those days of Lula are gone. If what Michael did was able to be copied, it would have happened during Lula’s heyday. I enjoy reading about the different photographer’s processes that Josh has presented and I look forward to seeing the direction the site takes.

Josh hasn’t been promoting workshops or gear he gets ad dollars for pushing. I very much appreciate that. He is interested in the art of photography. I am too.

Josh, a special thanks for making the Ctein dye transfer videos available. You are a good steward of your dad’s legacy.

Sharon








Rob C

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2019, 09:05:12 am »

I was just lazy in selling the older ones. I had Canons 20D, 40D, 60D, 6D, and 5Ds. Or 8, 10, 18, 20, and 50 Mpx. 

As for some other points of yours, it is worth noting that the success of HCB’s street photography was predicated, to a large degree, on availability of the then-state of the art equipment: small, unobtrusive Leica. Using your logic, he should’ve been just as successful with a 4x5 Graflex.

That's not my logic at all; it's your interpretation of what it might suit your argument for it to have been.

HC-B used what was around at the time, and though small, far from incredibly "smart" in the sense of today's incessant upgrades leading to nothing very much. The last genuine, great change happened some time ago with the advent of consumer digital. At once it freed the snapper from the financial burden of both films and mistakes. From then onwards, much of the digital progress has been playing catch-up with what was state of the art. And as far as I can gather, no dslr yet has a screen quite as good as a traditional Nikon filmie, and for me, a split-image screen was the best kind. I even bought one for my 500C/M. The march towards ever more high ISO may have its place in news snaps, but for most of us, it doesn't make us better photographers, just able to get images in lower light of nothing much as before.

Anyway, the first street and sports photography was made on wooden cameras...

Tony Ovens

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Re: Goodbye, farewell and amen
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2019, 09:20:42 am »

I feel much the same as Sharon about how LuLa has developed. The interregnum between Michael and Josh was the time when I found the main site less interesting. It did seem as though certain brands and activities were pushed. Although Josh's stuff is sometimes rather "out there" for me I have enjoyed many of the article that have appeared under his direction. I have just resubscribed.
Tony
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