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mearussi

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BC's linen canvas
« on: November 30, 2019, 01:26:24 pm »

Has anyone used this yet and if so is there anything interesting, unusual or different about its look?
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deanwork

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2019, 02:12:38 pm »

Yes itís the most refined canvas Iíve ever used. The texture surface is very unique, smooth and organic looking, not linear patterns like cotton canvas.

Iíve only used the white gessoed version. The other one, the brown natural color looks great for specialized things of low contrast , maybe black and white. Iím going to order some. Down side is all good Belgian linen, including this,  is very expensive, but this coating is much better than Jacquards that is barely photo quality. Some people may want to make small prints on it and stretch those.

John



Has anyone used this yet and if so is there anything interesting, unusual or different about its look?
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mearussi

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2019, 06:32:26 pm »

Yes itís the most refined canvas Iíve ever used. The texture surface is very unique, smooth and organic looking, not linear patterns like cotton canvas.

Iíve only used the white gessoed version. The other one, the brown natural color looks great for specialized things of low contrast , maybe black and white. Iím going to order some. Down side is all good Belgian linen, including this,  is very expensive, but this coating is much better than Jacquards that is barely photo quality. Some people may want to make small prints on it and stretch those.

John
Thank you. I don't care for the too perfect machined look of regular canvas and prefer the more "organic" natural woven look.

I assume then that the colors, saturation and dmax are as good as regular canvas?
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dgberg

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2019, 07:27:56 pm »

I am ordering a roll too.
If the prints and mounts look good it will be a nice premium product to offer.
Not going to be cheap.

deanwork

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2019, 08:26:40 pm »

Yea great coating for color and bw. It looks to be the best product BC has come up with.

Seriously beautiful and seriously expensive. But all fine linen canvas is expensive.

For me itís for special projects.






Thank you. I don't care for the too perfect machined look of regular canvas and prefer the more "organic" natural woven look.

I assume then that the colors, saturation and dmax are as good as regular canvas?
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mearussi

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2019, 11:16:08 pm »

Yea great coating for color and bw. It looks to be the best product BC has come up with.

Seriously beautiful and seriously expensive. But all fine linen canvas is expensive.

For me itís for special projects.
High praise since their Lyve canvas is so good. And that's exactly what I'm wanting it for, special projects.
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ssgphoto

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2019, 09:52:22 am »

We have printed a few exhibitions on it, and it's a very unique surface. The weave is much finer than any cotton or cotton -poly canvas so it can be more suitable to higher resolution photography projects. It prints really well, closer to the matte papers in how it looks. I like it a lot. One important factor is handling has been difficult on the P20000. The ink takes longer to cure / dry than anything we are used to so several larger prints have gotten smudged despite careful handling, so that is a factor in the already expensive media cost. I have also printed on the natural linen, which is a beautiful color but since its such a natural material and so far from white, it's only useful for certain works. It's similar to printing on brown kraft paper. 
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mcbroomf

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 01:23:59 pm »

I am a very casual user/printer but have printed a couple of prints (Epson P8000) and plan to do some larger prints once I've decided on mounting.  My observations ....

Takes at least 48 hours to dry.  I was rough handling a small test print soon after it came off the printer and added surface smudging/dulling until ~2 days passed (may have been a little more)

I tried wet mounting an 18 x 24 on Dibond with Miracle Muck and got nearly an inch of shrinkage lengthwise on a 24" long print (ie along the length of the roll).  No shrinkage on the 18" width across the roll.  I was mounting with a roller and coated the back of the print as well as the Dibond to ensure I didn't leave any dry patches, so the print had a chance to shrink before I laid it over the Dibond.

I agree that it produces lovely prints although I only have a little experience with canvas.

Mike
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dgberg

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 01:42:27 pm »

Good to know Mike.
I have a roll coming to experiment with. Does BC have a profile?
Did you top coat it with anything before your mounting efforts?
Maybe a topcoat before mounting will reduce the shrinkage or at least stabilize it a little more.

mcbroomf

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2019, 02:26:30 pm »

Good to know Mike.
I have a roll coming to experiment with. Does BC have a profile?
Did you top coat it with anything before your mounting efforts?
Maybe a topcoat before mounting will reduce the shrinkage or at least stabilize it a little more.

Dan, I did coat the small test print (that's what it was for).  I was rubbing the ink lightly before I did it when I found it smudging slightly so I held off until it was dry and it took a coule of days.  I didn't like the change though.  I think it was matt Glamour 2, a thin/diluted coat.  I've thrown out that print now but as I recall it lost the very fine surface texture that I liked so much so I decided to just mount the bigger print with no coating.  In fact I thought it would expand when wet then shrink on drying, but as I said, I still have very little experience with conventional canvas let alone this.  I just bought a thin kerf blade for my table saw and plan to trim the dibond to size.

BC made a profile for my Epson P8000.  If it's of use to you and not on their website yet let me know and I'll mail it to you.  I think the P8000 and P6000 share profiles.  Not sure about other models and I know you converted your P8000 to dye.

Mike
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dgberg

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 02:31:38 pm »

I still have a 9900 for matte canvas. That much shrinkage concerns me. Will do some tests when mine arrives.

mcbroomf

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2019, 03:01:18 pm »

Looks like they do have a profile for it ...

BC_BelgianLinen_9900_mk_Canvas.icm
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dgberg

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2019, 03:12:32 pm »

Great, thanks for digging.

mearussi

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 08:59:15 pm »

I am a very casual user/printer but have printed a couple of prints (Epson P8000) and plan to do some larger prints once I've decided on mounting.  My observations ....

Takes at least 48 hours to dry.  I was rough handling a small test print soon after it came off the printer and added surface smudging/dulling until ~2 days passed (may have been a little more)

I tried wet mounting an 18 x 24 on Dibond with Miracle Muck and got nearly an inch of shrinkage lengthwise on a 24" long print (ie along the length of the roll).  No shrinkage on the 18" width across the roll.  I was mounting with a roller and coated the back of the print as well as the Dibond to ensure I didn't leave any dry patches, so the print had a chance to shrink before I laid it over the Dibond.

I agree that it produces lovely prints although I only have a little experience with canvas.

Mike
Any natural cellulose fiber will shrink if too much water is applied to it. I had that happen with  100% cotton canvas when I applied with a roller too much Eco Print Shield. But for flat mounting on Dibond, acrylic or any hard surface I use the Scotch mounting adhesive roll: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/46514-REG/Scotch_56816_Mounting_Adhesive_Roll.html

I align it carefully, apply pressure with a small rubber hand roller then finish it with a cold laminator. I started doing this about six years ago and nothing's detached itself yet.
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mcbroomf

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2019, 04:30:14 pm »

Any natural cellulose fiber will shrink if too much water is applied to it. I had that happen with  100% cotton canvas when I applied with a roller too much Eco Print Shield. But for flat mounting on Dibond, acrylic or any hard surface I use the Scotch mounting adhesive roll: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/46514-REG/Scotch_56816_Mounting_Adhesive_Roll.html

I align it carefully, apply pressure with a small rubber hand roller then finish it with a cold laminator. I started doing this about six years ago and nothing's detached itself yet.

Thanks for that.  I don't have a laminator but I do have a vacuum press that would probably work,  Right now it's not holding vacuum and I need to fix it.  Next year probably.  If I get it fixed I'll try a wet mount 1st with the glue on the dibond only.  If that doesn't work I'll get a 24" roll of the adhesive.
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dgberg

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2019, 09:15:16 am »

Received my linen roll Saturday and have just printed my first print.

First impressions.
The texture is more subtle than I thought it would be.
Really nice before printing. After printing the texture is really soft.
I have not put any protective finish on the print as it is still drying. Most of the colors are accurate except for the brown dog, too much ink.
Maybe lowering the color density would help?
From the looks of the print now it looks like a protective topcoat will take away even more of the texture.

Epson 9900 with BC Linen Profile and Exhibition Canvas Matte paper setting.
Canvas setting in printer.

I am still hoping I can get this worked out. My best customer is a dog photographer and think some of his clients will love the linen.
If you don't know it already people spend crazy money on their pets so it should not be that hard of a sell.

deanwork

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2019, 12:49:47 pm »

Hi Stephen,

Yes, this linen canvas is very slow to cure and can scratch easily until hardened.

Are you spraying your canvas prints with Timeless varnish?

I was wondering - how is your P 20k holding up?  Is the clogging better or worse than the 11880?

Also are you using tungsten lights in your studio or or those daylight led spots?

John








We have printed a few exhibitions on it, and it's a very unique surface. The weave is much finer than any cotton or cotton -poly canvas so it can be more suitable to higher resolution photography projects. It prints really well, closer to the matte papers in how it looks. I like it a lot. One important factor is handling has been difficult on the P20000. The ink takes longer to cure / dry than anything we are used to so several larger prints have gotten smudged despite careful handling, so that is a factor in the already expensive media cost. I have also printed on the natural linen, which is a beautiful color but since its such a natural material and so far from white, it's only useful for certain works. It's similar to printing on brown kraft paper.
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dgberg

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2019, 02:37:34 pm »

My lo-tech print dryer. 2 1500 watt heater fans. Linen print dry to the touch in less than 30 minutes.
All of $38 @

ssgphoto

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Re: BC's linen canvas
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2019, 11:21:10 pm »

Hi John,
I did not spray these with Timeless varnish. The clients embellished them or let them as is. I have sprayed timeless on other BC canvas with good results. The matte comes out durable and barely perceptible.  But spraying is definitely a big messy production.

Right now we have day light LEDs which are not bad. GTI came in and measured them and the color temperature is pretty accurate but of course the CRI isn't great - but not terrible. Its best general solution I could figure out.  We just ordered a large GTI Luminaire to go over the main print table, and currently evaluate with a PDV booth next to the computer.

Overall I have had the P20K for almost three years and run a tremendous amount through it, more than I ever produced with the 11880. However I have had several significant service calls including replacing the capping assembly, a print head and even a broken plastic tab on the lid which required a ridiculous amount of time and disassembly to replace. The firmware has a lot of quirks that Epson does not seem interested in ironing out, but despite the issues it's been great production machine, making great prints super fast. I had lots more clogged nozzles on the 11880  but never any service calls. I do miss the manual paper release lever. The P20 K does clean easily and quickly when it clogs and frankly needs a lot of jets to be blocked to make any difference. Loading sheets can be a joke and really finicky but workable. However the 3 year warranty period will soon be up and there is no third party or any way to extend the service contact. Looks like I will be selling the P20k ( anyone interested?) and buying another as I can't really risk extended down time.
Stephen

Quote
Hi Stephen,

Yes, this linen canvas is very slow to cure and can scratch easily until hardened.

Are you spraying your canvas prints with Timeless varnish?

I was wondering - how is your P 20k holding up?  Is the clogging better or worse than the 11880?

Also are you using tungsten lights in your studio or or those daylight led spots?

John
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