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Author Topic: Nikon Z50  (Read 2376 times)

Ray

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Nikon Z50
« on: November 22, 2019, 06:28:27 pm »

Why is no-one discussing the merits of the new Nikon DX format Z50 mirrorless and its very useful walk-about 16-50mm and 50-250mm zoom lenses, all at a very affordable price?

The main thing that's holding me back from ordering one, is the unimpressive pixel count of the sensor. I would have much preferred a 32 mp sensor, like the Canon equivalent, but with the better DR that Nikon sensors usually have, of course.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2019, 07:28:45 pm »

It seems a bit of a lame duck to me.  Especially since it's lacking IBIS.
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2019, 07:44:40 pm »

Another APS-C camera on the market is not news. I don't think the Z50 brings anything new to the table. Nikon checked a box.

rdonson

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2019, 07:59:47 pm »

It will only appeal to the Nikon DX faithful.  Kind of like when Fuji updates one of its APS-C cameras.  Those of us who are Fuji fans get excited.  The rest of the crowd here just yawns. 
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2019, 10:11:28 pm »

IBIS would be nice. I like that Nikon are entering this market with a mirrorless camera. Good for the industry and hopefully for Nikon too. I would be OK with the pixel count. In most cases pixel count has become a security blanket. We think what if we take a really nice photo that people want to print the size of a wall. It’s unlikely to happen actually. Only reason I have a high pixel count camera is a few of my big clients demand it.

And so say I.
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Ray

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2019, 01:19:33 am »

The reason I like a high pixel count is because it provides more cropping options whilst still potentially retaining adequate resolution for A3 or A2 size prints, or whatever.

My use of light weight, compact and versatile 'walkabout' cameras is for shooting unexpected and interesting scenes, wherever I might be. If I come across a Pelican or Black Swan that ideally needs a 350 mm lens, and all I have with me is a 50-250 mm lens, and I can't get closer, then I have to crop significantly.

In general, a sensor with a higher pixel count effectively improves the resolution quality of all lenses used with the camera. It's not just about making huge size prints.
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kers

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2019, 07:29:05 am »

It seems a bit of a lame duck to me.  Especially since it's lacking IBIS.
+1  with IBIS it would be far more interesting and concurring
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2019, 08:20:17 am »

The reason I like a high pixel count is because it provides more cropping options whilst still potentially retaining adequate resolution for A3 or A2 size prints, or whatever.

My use of light weight, compact and versatile 'walkabout' cameras is for shooting unexpected and interesting scenes, wherever I might be. If I come across a Pelican or Black Swan that ideally needs a 350 mm lens, and all I have with me is a 50-250 mm lens, and I can't get closer, then I have to crop significantly.

In general, a sensor with a higher pixel count effectively improves the resolution quality of all lenses used with the camera. It's not just about making huge size prints.
Hi Ray,

I have a Z6 and have had no problem in making crops and getting very high quality prints from them.  I've done some printing on the US equivalents of both A2 and A3 of some landscapes from our Banff trip earlier this year and details are very clear.  Everything was handheld and as others have noted, IBIS is essential to providing the stabilization of the image capture.  Modern software does the up-resolution extremely well so clarity is preserved.  I've been experimenting with Gigapixel AI to see how it compares with the internal LR implementation but have not made a decision yet.  From Nikon's perspective, it's likely that the need for high density pixel DX sensors is quite small and this would also drive the cost of a DX camera up.  Marketing departments drive these decisions.
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kers

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2019, 12:06:16 pm »

Hi Ray,

I have a Z6 and have had no problem in making crops and getting very high quality prints from them.  I've done some printing on the US equivalents of both A2 and A3 of some landscapes from our Banff trip earlier this year and details are very clear.  Everything was handheld and as others have noted, IBIS is essential to providing the stabilization of the image capture.  Modern software does the up-resolution extremely well so clarity is preserved.  I've been experimenting with Gigapixel AI to see how it compares with the internal LR implementation but have not made a decision yet.  From Nikon's perspective, it's likely that the need for high density pixel DX sensors is quite small and this would also drive the cost of a DX camera up.  Marketing departments drive these decisions.

It all depends what you want to achieve... some people buy the GFX 100 for a purpose; Me, i like very good 1.4 lenses because i use wide open a lot in dark situations...so i buy the infamous 40mm sigma art...heavy but i don't care...it is stellar!
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Ray

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2019, 08:08:04 pm »

Hi Ray,

I have a Z6 and have had no problem in making crops and getting very high quality prints from them.  I've done some printing on the US equivalents of both A2 and A3 of some landscapes from our Banff trip earlier this year and details are very clear.  Everything was handheld and as others have noted, IBIS is essential to providing the stabilization of the image capture.  Modern software does the up-resolution extremely well so clarity is preserved.  I've been experimenting with Gigapixel AI to see how it compares with the internal LR implementation but have not made a decision yet.  From Nikon's perspective, it's likely that the need for high density pixel DX sensors is quite small and this would also drive the cost of a DX camera up.  Marketing departments drive these decisions.

Hi Alan,
It would be interesting to see comparisons using the same lens with the Z50 and Z6, cropping the Z6 image to the same FoV as the uncropped Z50 image. The 24mp Z6 would need to be cropped to around 10 mp. I think the 20mp Z50 image would definitely be more detailed in those circumstances.

Of course, the Z6 has its own advantages because it's full-frame. If no cropping is required because you have the right focal length of lens for the circumstances, then the Z6 image should have noticeably better SNR and lower noise.

My current walk-about camera is the Nikon DX5300 with 18-140 mm lens. Its light weight and versatility, combined with reasonable image quality, are its attractive features. The total weight of the camera and lens is around 1 kg.

The Z50 with both kit lenses, the 16-50 and 50-250, weigh slightly less than 1 Kg. With just the 50-250 lens attached, the total weight is a mere 800 gms. That's the main feature that attracts me, a significantly wider zoom capability with no increase in weight. With the 16-50 mm lens attached, the combined weight of camera, battery and lens is just 533 gms.

However, the question of improved image quality remains unanswered, so far. The difference between 20mp and the 24mp of the Nikon D5300 would be insignificant, I imagine. However, if the Z50 has an improved DR of at least half a stop, and hopefully more, then that would be an incentive for me. If the two lenses covering a range from 16 mm to 250 mm are significantly sharper than my current 18-140 zoom, which is rather soft at the edges, then that might clinch the deal for me, depending on the degree of improvements.

If the Z50 had a 32 mp sensor, as the equivalent Canon EOS M6 MkII does, I think I would already have ordered a Z50 with the two kit lenses.

I guess I'll just have to wait until reliable reviews and comparisons become available. DXOMark seems a bit slow with its analyses these days.  :(
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Ray

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2019, 11:42:04 pm »

For example, here's a shot I took recently whilst on one of my regular walks along the Brisbane river, with my Nikon D5300 and 18-140 zoom, at 140 mm, F8, ISO 200, and 1/160th second exposure.

However, I wouldn't bother to make a print of the 100% crop of the Pelican because resolution and noise is not up to my standard. I couldn't get closer to the Pelican and was limited by the focal length of 140 mm and sensor resolution. If I'd had a Z50 with 50-250 zoom, which is an even lighter package, I suspect the crop of the Pelican might have been up to standard.  ;)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2019, 02:37:57 pm »

Hi Alan,
It would be interesting to see comparisons using the same lens with the Z50 and Z6, cropping the Z6 image to the same FoV as the uncropped Z50 image. The 24mp Z6 would need to be cropped to around 10 mp. I think the 20mp Z50 image would definitely be more detailed in those circumstances.
I don't think I've ever cropped that severely but I don't do wild life stuff.  Attached is an image of Moose Meadows in Banff National Park from this past June.  This is cropped to 16mp as I shot it from across the road and with the with the 24-70 zoom at 24mm.  I've enlarged this and printed it using only LR to uprez on 19 inch wide paper and it looks very sharp with nice detail.  Printer is a Canon Pro-1000 at 300dpi.  Normally I try to get into positions where I don't have to crop at all but sometimes one just can't do that.  I've been fooling around with Gigapixel AI but have not printed much with it so I can't say for sure that it's better than using LR.
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Ray

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2019, 08:56:46 pm »

I don't think I've ever cropped that severely but I don't do wild life stuff.  Attached is an image of Moose Meadows in Banff National Park from this past June.  This is cropped to 16mp as I shot it from across the road and with the with the 24-70 zoom at 24mm.  I've enlarged this and printed it using only LR to uprez on 19 inch wide paper and it looks very sharp with nice detail.  Printer is a Canon Pro-1000 at 300dpi.  Normally I try to get into positions where I don't have to crop at all but sometimes one just can't do that.  I've been fooling around with Gigapixel AI but have not printed much with it so I can't say for sure that it's better than using LR.

Nice image, Alan. 16mp is quite good. That was the pixel count of my first Nikon DX model, the D7000.

I'm always cropping to some degree. Gone are the days when I would carry around a cumbersome tripod and a pack of different lenses so I could get the composition exactly right at the time of shooting.

The following shot was taken in an outdoor restaurant near the same Brisbane river, but cropped only moderately.  I used the same lens and camera as the previous image, but at 100 mm, F8, ISO 200 and 1/250th exposure.
It's sharper than the previous image and less noisy because the lighting was better, the shutter speed faster, and I was closer to the bird.

Having looked again at the conversion in Bridge, I see that the previous image of the Pelican was underexposed by more than a stop. I should have used ISO 640 or even 800 for slightly better results, despite the ISO-Invariance tendencies of Nikon cameras.

I can appreciate that the lack of IBIS in the Z50 would be a concern for those who already have lenses designed for the Z7 and Z6. However, the new kit lenses for the Z50 are claimed to have exceptional, state-of-the-art, built-in VR of 4.5 stops, so the lack of IBIS is not a concern for me, especially since we have too many IBIS in Australia.   ;D

The bird in the attached image is an Australian White IBIS.  ;D

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BJL

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Nikon Z50, no IBIS; most Z lenses no ILIS?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2019, 09:38:39 pm »

Do I have it right that the only Z lenses with VR are the two Z-DX lenses? If so, that leaves the Z50 with a big handicap for us “post tripod” photographers. I can believe that this alone makes the Z50 of interest almost exclusively to people who currently own a DX DSLR and lenses to go with it and yet want to adopt a mirrorless camera whose only format specific lenses duplicate what they already have in F mount lenses. Hopefully Nikon will fill gaps like this in the Z system before too long.
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Ray

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Re: Nikon Z50, no IBIS; most Z lenses no ILIS?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 02:26:10 am »

Do I have it right that the only Z lenses with VR are the two Z-DX lenses? If so, that leaves the Z50 with a big handicap for us “post tripod” photographers. I can believe that this alone makes the Z50 of interest almost exclusively to people who currently own a DX DSLR and lenses to go with it and yet want to adopt a mirrorless camera whose only format specific lenses duplicate what they already have in F mount lenses. Hopefully Nikon will fill gaps like this in the Z system before too long.

You're probably right, BJL.

It's the likely increased quality of those Z-DX lenses plus the low combined weight with the Z50 body that would be the main attraction for me. I would expect that the two lenses, ranging from 16mm to 250mm, would be sharper, more contrasty, and have better edge resolution at all focal lengths than my 18-140mm zoom which I use with my DX D5300, but I can't find any detailed reviews and comparisons yet.

The greater extension from 140mm to 250mm, with no increase in weight, is also an attraction, as well as the 4K video capability of the Z50, and the 4.5 stops of VR of the two kit lenses, which I think is much better than the VR of my Nikkor 18-140 lens.

However, I'm not going to rush into this. And I'm not looking forward to reading a two-hundred page manual describing all the benefits and unfamiliar procedures of the mirrorless system.  ;D
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2019, 08:39:37 am »

Nice image, Alan. 16mp is quite good. That was the pixel count of my first Nikon DX model, the D7000.

I'm always cropping to some degree. Gone are the days when I would carry around a cumbersome tripod and a pack of different lenses so I could get the composition exactly right at the time of shooting.
When we are traveling I don't take a tripod.  I really like the IBIS on the Z6.  We had several overcast days in Banff and I had to shoot at a slower speed but every image was sharp.

Quote
I can appreciate that the lack of IBIS in the Z50 would be a concern for those who already have lenses designed for the Z7 and Z6. However, the new kit lenses for the Z50 are claimed to have exceptional, state-of-the-art, built-in VR of 4.5 stops, so the lack of IBIS is not a concern for me, especially since we have too many IBIS in Australia.   ;D
Too funny, an IBIS to capture an IBIS!!
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Ray

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2019, 12:13:14 am »

I was a bit disappointed to read from early reviews of the Z50 that the sensor has an optical low pass filter. My D5300 doesn't. The filter will reduce resolution to some extent. The Z6 sensor also has a low pass filter, but that's understandable because of the lower pixel density of 24mp full frame, which is equivalent to only 10mp in APS-C format.
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Ray

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2019, 09:40:59 pm »

Here's an interesting perspective that considers the Z50 to be superior to both the Z6 and Z7 in many ways. It must be a very biased view.  :D

https://youtu.be/EjSaU-8RVkY
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chez

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2019, 02:25:49 pm »

I was a bit disappointed to read from early reviews of the Z50 that the sensor has an optical low pass filter. My D5300 doesn't. The filter will reduce resolution to some extent. The Z6 sensor also has a low pass filter, but that's understandable because of the lower pixel density of 24mp full frame, which is equivalent to only 10mp in APS-C format.

Of bigger concern is the lack of built in sensor cleaning. Be prepared for a lot of dust bunnies.
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KLaban

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Re: Nikon Z50
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2019, 02:55:16 pm »

Of bigger concern is the lack of built in sensor cleaning. Be prepared for a lot of dust bunnies.

Up until six months ago I'd never had a camera with built in sensor cleaning.
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