X1D vs. X1DII

[Photolandscape]

This is not intended as anything more than a cursory observation, but a week ago I found a dealer with a X1DII demo and had the opportunity to play with it a bit. I liked the very slightly improved EVF and the larger rear LCD. I didn’t notice an improvement in the autofocus speed of the II or in any other important area. The gray finish is nice. Compared to the over-priced original X1D, the $5750 price tag of the II makes it far more reasonable than before. But having said that, I was not motivated to go for the II. I recently bought a spotless, mint, lightly used X1D for $3000 and couldn’t bring myself to spend another $2750 plus sales tax for an incrementally improved II. Just my opinion.

[BobShaw]

I have had the X1d for about a year and I am very happy with it.
The start up time is slow and it is hard on batteries, but nothing to be overly concerned about.
I just received my dual charger and I am waiting on a new larger capacity battery.
I am pretty confident that once the early adopters get their shiny X1D2s that there will be a firmware upgrade for the X1D to make them pretty similar.

[pschefz]

3000 for a nice X1D is a good price because all in all it is a good camera....
the larger screen, better EVF and better processor might make it worth the extra money but the IQ will be the same...
software updates wont help much, maybe they can shorten startup (which is honestly a joke) but the new processor makes the X1DII faster...not by much....
the X1D was just way overpriced when it came out....3000 is a fair price and 5700 is ok when considering the Hasselblad factor...

[rollsman44]

   Is it worth selling the X1D and buying A LN or very good condition used X1D2 ?    Say for 4800-5000

[Mexecutioner]

Dunno, is it?

[pschefz]

got to shoot with the X1DII  the other day....
still by far the best looking camera on the market....size is perfect, handling great, EVF is better then original, rear LCD wonderful....interface great like before, but i  find buttons  and dials better to make adjustments fast....but that  screen and interface could change my opinion and make me re-arrange my workflow...
first observation: why doesn't everybody make cameras like  this one? give me the same size body  and screen and put a smaller sensor in with the tech we have!
second observation: oh man....AF is still in the dark ages,  blackout is brutal...really, really hard to shoot people with changing expressions or moving through the EVF since there is no telling if you got the moment.....i have shot portrait with 4x5 and it is a different way of shooting, which is ok....this is shooting in the "don't move" way....shooting manual focus  and not looking through the finder (which is how i would often shoot in the film days) seems to be a more natural way.....which brings me to overall speed....2.5fps  is optimistic (as the hasselblad rep said) and there is no blackout because there is no image at all! get it? the EVF is solid black....no image popping up at all....darkness....i never liked shooting continuous with the GFX but at least you get some sense of what you are getting...which isn't much faster either and (as the hasselblad rep said) they made a choice not to show anything to not confuse the operator.....so there is no image at all in continuous....and since the AF C is completely pointless (even more so then on the GFX, which is pretty bad) it really comes down to: lock down camera, manual focus, shoot the continuous sequence without looking through the finder....hope for the best, repeat....
i did bring my sony RX1RII (42mpix, fixed 35mm central shutter, 5fps, half the size and weight) which is long in the tooth in every regard compared to new sonys, nikons,...but it really seemed like from a different planet....not known for its AF, it just  completely blew away the X1DII....i get it the sensor cant handle it, just like in the fuji.....
problem is that i went home to compare the files....again: i used to own the GFX 50, so i do know what the sensor can do, and there are differences.....but in a controlled environment with correct exposure  it really, really gets hard to notice any difference.....unless one has to open up the shadows bay 4 or 5 stops....the fixed 35zeiss is a very sharp lens, so there was no difference there either.....big difference was the large % of shots missed with the hasselblad (soft, blackout issues,...) of course that % can bbe improved  on when adapting the shooting style....
but the thing is: i can slow down with faster cameras, i can shoot more deliberate, i can lock it down and sit eye to eye with the subject (and not look though the finder).....but i can also get all the shots in between, not have to worry about AF, speed.....or that i am giving anything up in terms of IQ....
i keep coming back to the X1DII not just because it is beautiful but because of the central shutter ...but the overall speed and handling makes it unusable for what i would need it for....
also: iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....
which brings me to something i really did not like at all.....hasselblad has been showing iPad tethering and praising it since summer.....it is still not even available...let that sink in....a feature front and center in all marketing isn't even available.....

what i took away from it: i dont understand why sony does not copy the body, screen and interface and just put in a smaller sensor....

[BobShaw]

iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....

I tether to a MacBook Air, the lowest basic one at 8G/128G
This has a lot of advantages over tethering to an iPad to me.
All of the settings you make do transfer over to the main computer, including custom calibrations that you made in Reproduction Mode.
You can use the MB as a server for an iPad, so you give the iPad to the customer and they can rate the images as you shoot them.

[chez]

got to shoot with the X1DII  the other day....
still by far the best looking camera on the market....size is perfect, handling great, EVF is better then original, rear LCD wonderful....interface great like before, but i  find buttons  and dials better to make adjustments fast....but that  screen and interface could change my opinion and make me re-arrange my workflow...
first observation: why doesn't everybody make cameras like  this one? give me the same size body  and screen and put a smaller sensor in with the tech we have!
second observation: oh man....AF is still in the dark ages,  blackout is brutal...really, really hard to shoot people with changing expressions or moving through the EVF since there is no telling if you got the moment.....i have shot portrait with 4x5 and it is a different way of shooting, which is ok....this is shooting in the "don't move" way....shooting manual focus  and not looking through the finder (which is how i would often shoot in the film days) seems to be a more natural way.....which brings me to overall speed....2.5fps  is optimistic (as the hasselblad rep said) and there is no blackout because there is no image at all! get it? the EVF is solid black....no image popping up at all....darkness....i never liked shooting continuous with the GFX but at least you get some sense of what you are getting...which isn't much faster either and (as the hasselblad rep said) they made a choice not to show anything to not confuse the operator.....so there is no image at all in continuous....and since the AF C is completely pointless (even more so then on the GFX, which is pretty bad) it really comes down to: lock down camera, manual focus, shoot the continuous sequence without looking through the finder....hope for the best, repeat....
i did bring my sony RX1RII (42mpix, fixed 35mm central shutter, 5fps, half the size and weight) which is long in the tooth in every regard compared to new sonys, nikons,...but it really seemed like from a different planet....not known for its AF, it just  completely blew away the X1DII....i get it the sensor cant handle it, just like in the fuji.....
problem is that i went home to compare the files....again: i used to own the GFX 50, so i do know what the sensor can do, and there are differences.....but in a controlled environment with correct exposure  it really, really gets hard to notice any difference.....unless one has to open up the shadows bay 4 or 5 stops....the fixed 35zeiss is a very sharp lens, so there was no difference there either.....big difference was the large % of shots missed with the hasselblad (soft, blackout issues,...) of course that % can bbe improved  on when adapting the shooting style....
but the thing is: i can slow down with faster cameras, i can shoot more deliberate, i can lock it down and sit eye to eye with the subject (and not look though the finder).....but i can also get all the shots in between, not have to worry about AF, speed.....or that i am giving anything up in terms of IQ....
i keep coming back to the X1DII not just because it is beautiful but because of the central shutter ...but the overall speed and handling makes it unusable for what i would need it for....
also: iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....
which brings me to something i really did not like at all.....hasselblad has been showing iPad tethering and praising it since summer.....it is still not even available...let that sink in....a feature front and center in all marketing isn't even available.....

what i took away from it: i dont understand why sony does not copy the body, screen and interface and just put in a smaller sensor....

I really wanted to read your views on the X1DII but I got part way through your post and started to get a headache. Maybe reformat with sentences and capital letters to help people understand what you are saying...as it stands, I can't get through your entire post.

[SrMi]

got to shoot with the X1DII  the other day....
still by far the best looking camera on the market....size is perfect, handling great, EVF is better then original, rear LCD wonderful....interface great like before, but i  find buttons  and dials better to make adjustments fast....but that  screen and interface could change my opinion and make me re-arrange my workflow...
first observation: why doesn't everybody make cameras like  this one? give me the same size body  and screen and put a smaller sensor in with the tech we have!
second observation: oh man....AF is still in the dark ages,  blackout is brutal...really, really hard to shoot people with changing expressions or moving through the EVF since there is no telling if you got the moment.....i have shot portrait with 4x5 and it is a different way of shooting, which is ok....this is shooting in the "don't move" way....shooting manual focus  and not looking through the finder (which is how i would often shoot in the film days) seems to be a more natural way.....which brings me to overall speed....2.5fps  is optimistic (as the hasselblad rep said) and there is no blackout because there is no image at all! get it? the EVF is solid black....no image popping up at all....darkness....i never liked shooting continuous with the GFX but at least you get some sense of what you are getting...which isn't much faster either and (as the hasselblad rep said) they made a choice not to show anything to not confuse the operator.....so there is no image at all in continuous....and since the AF C is completely pointless (even more so then on the GFX, which is pretty bad) it really comes down to: lock down camera, manual focus, shoot the continuous sequence without looking through the finder....hope for the best, repeat....
i did bring my sony RX1RII (42mpix, fixed 35mm central shutter, 5fps, half the size and weight) which is long in the tooth in every regard compared to new sonys, nikons,...but it really seemed like from a different planet....not known for its AF, it just  completely blew away the X1DII....i get it the sensor cant handle it, just like in the fuji.....
problem is that i went home to compare the files....again: i used to own the GFX 50, so i do know what the sensor can do, and there are differences.....but in a controlled environment with correct exposure  it really, really gets hard to notice any difference.....unless one has to open up the shadows bay 4 or 5 stops....the fixed 35zeiss is a very sharp lens, so there was no difference there either.....big difference was the large % of shots missed with the hasselblad (soft, blackout issues,...) of course that % can bbe improved  on when adapting the shooting style....
but the thing is: i can slow down with faster cameras, i can shoot more deliberate, i can lock it down and sit eye to eye with the subject (and not look though the finder).....but i can also get all the shots in between, not have to worry about AF, speed.....or that i am giving anything up in terms of IQ....
i keep coming back to the X1DII not just because it is beautiful but because of the central shutter ...but the overall speed and handling makes it unusable for what i would need it for....
also: iPad tethering....amazing....shows what the iPad can do....full size raws pop up faster then on any desktop or laptop i have ever shot with....handling is great.....BUT settings do not transfer over to desktop right now....this is of course not hasselblads fault and will probably be fixed in the future, iPad workflow is something to look forward to .....but once apple opens it up completely everybody including C1 will offer it as well.....
which brings me to something i really did not like at all.....hasselblad has been showing iPad tethering and praising it since summer.....it is still not even available...let that sink in....a feature front and center in all marketing isn't even available.....

what i took away from it: i dont understand why sony does not copy the body, screen and interface and just put in a smaller sensor....

Phocus Mobile 2 is out. Tethering with iPad is available: https://www.hasselblad.com/phocus-mobile/

[pschefz]

Phocus Mobile 2 is out. Tethering with iPad is available: https://www.hasselblad.com/phocus-mobile/

just  got that  email today as well
the problem with iPad tethering still remains, one really has to decide to shoot to iPad or to laptop/desktop, since only files can be transferred from one to the other, not adjustments....as of right now....
I also want to clarify something about my experience and comparing the little sony to the X1DII in terms of speed and tethering: the RX1RII is only USB2 which means that no matter how much faster the camera itself focuses and shoots, if one does shoot tethered with it (which is maybe a little silly) things slow down considerably because of slow file transfer.....the X1DII with iPad transfers are blazing fast, but like said before focus lock, blackout and fps make for a slower overall feeling...

[BobShaw]

the problem with iPad tethering still remains, one really has to decide to shoot to iPad or to laptop/desktop, since only files can be transferred from one to the other, not adjustments....as of right now....

That's one problem. To me the whole exercise is pointless. What happens to all those hundreds of 85MB of so files once you get them there? If you shoot to a hard drive attached to a computer then when you are finished you just plug it into a bigger computer or transfer them to a mega storage device. I use use my iPad for browsing and for giving to customers to keep them away from the computer. It may be OK for hiding in the bushes for a wildlife shot. Does it even convert them to FFF?

[pschefz]

That's one problem. To me the whole exercise is pointless. What happens to all those hundreds of 85MB of so files once you get them there? If you shoot to a hard drive attached to a computer then when you are finished you just plug it into a bigger computer or transfer them to a mega storage device. I use use my iPad for browsing and for giving to customers to keep them away from the computer. It may be OK for hiding in the bushes for a wildlife shot. Does it even convert them to FFF?

yes,  exactly...unless everything lives on the  iPad it does not make sense....
BUT the speed and ease shows what could be....i have never seen full size raw files with adjustments pop up so fast....its literally turning your head to the screen after pushing the trigger....interface is clean and easy, really no reason not to love it...
hasselblad says  something about  apple not allowing it but (like my digitech pointed out) adobe can do it....LR CC on iPad sends adjustments via cloud to desktop and vice versa ....syncs ratings and adjustments in real time over cloud....i guess it cant do it over USB-C?
it actually would not be THAT bad for me, since most shoots tethered mean files pop up, basic adjustments, fix light,...take 2,3,400 frames, move on to the next set up....and in general the adjustments are pretty basic and can be easily replicated on the desktop and might just be 5 or 6 different looks that are applied to 1000 frames...

problem still is the lag and total lack of speed of the camera and focus mechanism

[Vieri Bottazzini]

My view.

As a pro, I write my gear off, and get VAT back. So, selling the old X1D for 3.000 euro and getting the new one for 4.500 + VAT, 4.500 euro which I can write off my taxes, is a no-brainer. I understand that not everyone is in the same situation, but for the many pros out there working with X1D, or for anyone who can write it off (and get VAT back in VAT countries), updating is definitely worth considering.

That said, in regard to the various posts above:

1. Blackout. I can shoot continuous frames with my X1D Mark II with no blackout. I see images constantly in the EVF while shooting continuous.
2. EVF & LCD are both MUCH better than the older versions.
3. The menus are even better organised in the II than they were in the already great I;
4. The camera is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and with the latest FW, some lenses have much faster and more precise AF than when the II was released;

and more. Please see my review of the Mark II here: https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2019/08/a-first-impression-hasselblad-x1d-ii-review.html.

Hope this helps, best regards

Vieri

[pschefz]

My view.

As a pro, I write my gear off, and get VAT back. So, selling the old X1D for 3.000 euro and getting the new one for 4.500 + VAT, 4.500 euro which I can write off my taxes, is a no-brainer. I understand that not everyone is in the same situation, but for the many pros out there working with X1D, or for anyone who can write it off (and get VAT back in VAT countries), updating is definitely worth considering.

That said, in regard to the various posts above:

1. Blackout. I can shoot continuous frames with my X1D Mark II with no blackout. I see images constantly in the EVF while shooting continuous.
2. EVF & LCD are both MUCH better than the older versions.
3. The menus are even better organised in the II than they were in the already great I;
4. The camera is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and with the latest FW, some lenses have much faster and more precise AF than when the II was released;

and more. Please see my review of the Mark II here: https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2019/08/a-first-impression-hasselblad-x1d-ii-review.html.

Hope this helps, best regards

Vieri

i think in terms of money the X1DII makes much more sense then the I

1: i dont know what camera you have...blackout is serious in single frame shooting and there are zero image previews at all, black only in continuous....the hasselblad rep confirmed this, they made the choice to not show anything....i mentioned that the previews flashing in with the GFX 50 did not help much but at least gave me some idea of what was coming in....i guess iPad tethering is so fast (and continuous shooting pretty much has to be locked down anyway because of AF speed) it might just make more sense to judge quick bursts on the iPad.....btw: the hasselblad rep also confirmed that continuous is just a little more then 2fps...
2: no doubt, EVF and screen are gorgeous
3: menus are great, seem to be snappier and less buggy as well
4:start up is much faster but still in the dark ages compared to pretty much anything, AF might be faster but still not comparable to any mirrorless DSLR and GFX is still noticeably faster....my biggest issue was that i literally could not get focus with the 135 portrait lens on the person sitting under the studio lights....the 45 was much better but still lightyears behind a kind of long in tooth RX1RII....

[Vieri Bottazzini]

i think in terms of money the X1DII makes much more sense then the I

1: i dont know what camera you have...blackout is serious in single frame shooting and there are zero image previews at all, black only in continuous....the hasselblad rep confirmed this, they made the choice to not show anything....i mentioned that the previews flashing in with the GFX 50 did not help much but at least gave me some idea of what was coming in....i guess iPad tethering is so fast (and continuous shooting pretty much has to be locked down anyway because of AF speed) it might just make more sense to judge quick bursts on the iPad.....btw: the hasselblad rep also confirmed that continuous is just a little more then 2fps...
2: no doubt, EVF and screen are gorgeous
3: menus are great, seem to be snappier and less buggy as well
4:start up is much faster but still in the dark ages compared to pretty much anything, AF might be faster but still not comparable to any mirrorless DSLR and GFX is still noticeably faster....my biggest issue was that i literally could not get focus with the 135 portrait lens on the person sitting under the studio lights....the 45 was much better but still lightyears behind a kind of long in tooth RX1RII....

Hello,

4. I only photograph landscape, therefore AF speed and startup speed are of no consequence to me. As well, I never said it is lightening fast or ahead of the competition - I said that it is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and that the last FW sped things up even further, especially for some lenses. As always, the best choice for someone and for some kind of photography might not be the best choice for someone else. All camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything, and for landscape photography, IMHO the X1D II system offers the best compromise on the market today.

About your complain, my 135 focuses precisely all the time, while not lightening fast. Studio lights should definitely provide enough contrast for you purposes, perhaps either your camera or lens need to be checked?

Best regards,

Vieri

[pschefz]

Hello,

4. I only photograph landscape, therefore AF speed and startup speed are of no consequence to me. As well, I never said it is lightening fast or ahead of the competition - I said that it is far more responsive at startup / shutdown, and that the last FW sped things up even further, especially for some lenses. As always, the best choice for someone and for some kind of photography might not be the best choice for someone else. All camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything, and for landscape photography, IMHO the X1D II system offers the best compromise on the market today.

About your complain, my 135 focuses precisely all the time, while not lightening fast. Studio lights should definitely provide enough contrast for you purposes, perhaps either your camera or lens need to be checked?

Best regards,

Vieri

like i said before, i think the X1DII is a beautiful camera and definitely provides amazing files...shooting reminds me of the old hasselblad MF days, nothing wrong with that....

i shot the 135 at a hasselblad event, latest firmware....i am sure it would work perfectly well for landscape, it just struck me that THE portrait lens cant lock focus on a person at a hasselblad event...

dpreview just posted their review of the new 30mm, not a great review but they do make good points compared to the A7RIV....

in terms of startup and AF, these are issues one has to be aware of and will notice right away when first picking up the camera, easy to make a decision then to see if it will work for you personal style....

my biggest concern for landscape would be that the sensor ( as much as i like it) just is old and as a package something like the GFX100 would be more future proof....

i have made my own comparisons over the years between GFX 50, X1D and several sonys....and while the fuji and hasselblad files can be slightly better, sometimes visible, sometimes honestly not, there is no doubt they are more robust and have a more pleasant grain at higher iso....

[Vieri Bottazzini]

like i said before, i think the X1DII is a beautiful camera and definitely provides amazing files...shooting reminds me of the old hasselblad MF days, nothing wrong with that....

i shot the 135 at a hasselblad event, latest firmware....i am sure it would work perfectly well for landscape, it just struck me that THE portrait lens cant lock focus on a person at a hasselblad event...

dpreview just posted their review of the new 30mm, not a great review but they do make good points compared to the A7RIV....

in terms of startup and AF, these are issues one has to be aware of and will notice right away when first picking up the camera, easy to make a decision then to see if it will work for you personal style....

my biggest concern for landscape would be that the sensor ( as much as i like it) just is old and as a package something like the GFX100 would be more future proof....

i have made my own comparisons over the years between GFX 50, X1D and several sonys....and while the fuji and hasselblad files can be slightly better, sometimes visible, sometimes honestly not, there is no doubt they are more robust and have a more pleasant grain at higher iso....

As I said before, I only do landscape, and therefore I am not concerned by what might concern other photographers (startup speed, AF speed, etc). Of course, if you do different kind of photography you might choose a different camera.

As I also said before, all camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything. For serious landscape work, when you need to hike and carry your own gear, size and weight matter. The age of the sensor is of no concern to me, its image quality is, and the X1D (I or II) produce extraordinarily beautiful files. I personally would never choose the GFX 100 for landscape, ever. With the weight of the camera alone, I can carry either TWO X1D bodies, or one body and one lens. And, if you really need 100 Mp, there will be a X2D (or whatever it will be called) featuring 100 Mp at some point. Again, your solution to gear choice might very well be different.

Best regards,

Vieri

[BobShaw]

As I said before, I only do landscape, and therefore I am not concerned by what might concern other photographers (startup speed, AF speed, etc). Of course, if you do different kind of photography you might choose a different camera.

As I also said before, all camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything. For serious landscape work, when you need to hike and carry your own gear, size and weight matter. The age of the sensor is of no concern to me, its image quality is, and the X1D (I or II) produce extraordinarily beautiful files. I personally would never choose the GFX 100 for landscape, ever. With the weight of the camera alone, I can carry either TWO X1D bodies, or one body and one lens. And, if you really need 100 Mp, there will be a X2D (or whatever it will be called) featuring 100 Mp at some point. Again, your solution to gear choice might very well be different.

Best regards,

Vieri

I agree with everything that you said. To me the X1D revolutionised landscape photography. All of sudden you can carry your gear into difficult areas without a sherpa. The GFX100 does not interest me. If I really need 100MP then I have a Canon Tilt shift lens and and can stitch a few images together. For the 99.9% of other times having 80MB files is a lot better than 160MB or whatever files. Startup is a minor pain on the X1D and I see no reason why there is not a firmware update for X1D to fix most of the issues. Even in the studio most of my work is Manual Focus. An X1D2 would be nice, but I would happily have two X1D.

[pschefz]

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/2449124160/dpreview-tv-hasselblad-x1d-ii-50c-review
this was pretty much my experience with the camera...

[eronald]

As I said before, I only do landscape, and therefore I am not concerned by what might concern other photographers (startup speed, AF speed, etc). Of course, if you do different kind of photography you might choose a different camera.

As I also said before, all camera choices are always compromises, no camera is perfect for everything and anything. For serious landscape work, when you need to hike and carry your own gear, size and weight matter. The age of the sensor is of no concern to me, its image quality is, and the X1D (I or II) produce extraordinarily beautiful files. I personally would never choose the GFX 100 for landscape, ever. With the weight of the camera alone, I can carry either TWO X1D bodies, or one body and one lens. And, if you really need 100 Mp, there will be a X2D (or whatever it will be called) featuring 100 Mp at some point. Again, your solution to gear choice might very well be different.

Best regards,

Vieri

The Hassy is a nice light landscape camera with good ergonomics which its users appreciate; however quirks which are due to the old sensor used without focal plane shutter preclude fast shooting. I don’t see people complaining.

What is a bit sad about the DPR review is that the reviewers had trouble with portraits. Almost every non-professional photographer wants to do a portrait occasionally with the camera at hand. Vieri can say he NEVER shoots a portrait, because HE is a professional with iron discipline, HE never goes outside his planned project, but for the rest of us there is always a moment when the moment is magical, the camera in our hands says it wants to do a capture, and we give in.

Hasselblad have engineers, and engineers love to solve hard problems. Hassy could solve or at least ameliorate the focus problem in software, eg. by licensing the Panasonic DFD process depth from defocus, which works well on their GH and GF series of cameras.


Edmund