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Author Topic: Incursions into Syria  (Read 13943 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #180 on: October 27, 2019, 07:38:14 pm »

Well, it's not just al Baghdadi, it's that Trump eliminated ISIS territory after he became President, [...]

Something he couldn't have done without the help of the Kurds.
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #181 on: October 27, 2019, 07:52:09 pm »

Something he couldn't have done without the help of the Kurds.
That's true, at least in Syria.  We were partners against ISIS.  Of course, ISIS was killing Kurds and invading their territory.  So they needed us as well to provide air and other ground support. But we did not give the Kurds any promises to build a homeland and get involved in fighting our NATO ally Turkey to do it. 

LesPalenik

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #182 on: October 27, 2019, 08:00:49 pm »

That's true, at least in Syria.  We were partners against ISIS.  Of course, ISIS was killing Kurds and invading their territory.  So they needed us as well to provide air and other ground support. But we did not give the Kurds any promises to build a homeland and get involved in fighting our NATO ally Turkey to do it.

Not interfering with the Kurds to build their own state in that area might be beneficial to more than one party. Why to allow it for Kosovans and not for Kurds?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #183 on: October 27, 2019, 09:10:41 pm »

Not interfering with the Kurds to build their own state in that area might be beneficial to more than one party. Why to allow it for Kosovans and not for Kurds?

Americans are tired of nation building.  It's cost us too much in blood and money.  Also, it means going against Turkey,  a NATO ally who we've had a 7 decade close relationship with.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #184 on: October 27, 2019, 09:57:49 pm »

Americans are tired of nation building.

You mean like in Cambodia and Chile.  ;)


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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #185 on: October 27, 2019, 10:10:48 pm »

You mean like in Cambodia and Chile.  ;)



Where ever. It's enough.  We have to be only where it's of interest to the US.  We have to be more focused.  We don;t have the will or resources any longer.   Our deficit this year hit its highest in 7 years at almost a trillion dollars.   Reminds me of what former House Speaker Tip O'Neill said decades ago,  "A billion here.  A billion there.  Pretty soon we're talking about real money."
https://www.apnews.com/caeb6d6c4eff45e4bc5da12db06004bc

Chris Kern

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #186 on: October 27, 2019, 10:35:21 pm »

Reminds me of what former House Speaker Tip O'Neill said decades ago,  "A billion here.  A billion there.  Pretty soon we're talking about real money."

Actually, it was Illinois Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen.

Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #187 on: October 27, 2019, 10:54:35 pm »

Actually, it was Illinois Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen.
Oh.  Well, a politician here or a politician there.......:)

Oh now I remember what Speaker Tip O'Neill was known for.  As a Democrat, he was still able to go over to the White House by himself and meet with Republican President Reagan.  They had a grand old time telling each other jokes.  Not sure, but maybe downing a couple of beers together.  They were able to get things done by working together.  Can you imagine Speaker Pelosi downing a couple with Trump?  We need more politicians today who know how to get past politics and be human. 

LesPalenik

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #188 on: October 28, 2019, 04:02:36 am »

New York Times reports that the Baghdadi's assassination succeeded despite Trump, not thanks to him.

Quote
Trump’s Syria Troop Withdrawal Complicated Plans for al-Baghdadi Raid
President Trump’s abrupt decision to pull forces from northern Syria forced the Pentagon to press ahead with a risky night operation that killed the ISIS leader, military officials said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/27/us/politics/baghdadi-isis-leader-trump.html

https://www.timesofisrael.com/baghdadi-assassination-succeeded-despite-trump-not-thanks-to-him-us-officials/

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jeremyrh

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kers

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #190 on: October 28, 2019, 07:37:31 am »

The Kurds will not have a nation because Iran, Irak, Turkey and Syria will not allow it. But they should be treated better. Better than Trump just did,
Better than Erdogan did; the Kurdish political party got some democratic share of the voters some years ago. Erdogan saw the danger and pulled the terrorist card out of hits hat and made them illegal.
I once thought in the aftermath of the second Irak war the Kurds would start a nation in the North of Irak, but that did not happen; There is a lot of oil there.
Anyway in this war against ISIS they made a large contribution to the victory and are now not considered not useful anymore to anyone, and abandoned;  i wonder how many Kurds lost their life fighting ISIS.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #191 on: October 28, 2019, 09:18:39 am »

The Kurds will not have a nation because Iran, Irak, Turkey and Syria will not allow it. But they should be treated better. Better than Trump just did,
Better than Erdogan did; the Kurdish political party got some democratic share of the voters some years ago. Erdogan saw the danger and pulled the terrorist card out of hits hat and made them illegal.
I once thought in the aftermath of the second Irak war the Kurds would start a nation in the North of Irak, but that did not happen; There is a lot of oil there.
Anyway in this war against ISIS they made a large contribution to the victory and are now not considered not useful anymore to anyone, and abandoned;  i wonder how many Kurds lost their life fighting ISIS.

They may have to make peace with their other countrymen in the countries they live in and become loyal citizens of those countries and gain political power within each of those countries.  Rightfully or not, those are the situations on the ground.  This has been going on since WWI.

They are integrated into Iraq along with Sunnis and Shia.  Maybe they just have to be good citizens of the other countries they live in as well.  In any case, it's not up to America to force our will on Turkey, Syria, Iran and elsewhere so they can have their own country. 

That's something you always complain about America. That we push our weight around.  So because Trump is president, you take the opposite position.  That's hypocritical.  It's phony.  You don't care about the Kurds, only that you object to everything Trump does.   If this was so important to Europeans, where were you for the last 100 years?  Stop volunteering America to nation build.  Shed your own blood.  Spend you own money.  America has lost thousand of troops and trillions of dollars fighting in the Middle East since 9-11. We're done. 

kers

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #192 on: October 28, 2019, 10:10:41 am »

That's something you always complain about America. That we push our weight around.  So because Trump is president, you take the opposite position.  That's hypocritical.  It's phony.  You don't care about the Kurds, only that you object to everything Trump does.   If this was so important to Europeans, where were you for the last 100 years?  Stop volunteering America to nation build.  Shed your own blood.  Spend you own money.  America has lost thousand of troops and trillions of dollars fighting in the Middle East since 9-11. We're done.
I think you got triggered over the word 'Trump'... not my fault...
It was about the poor position of the Kurds and nothing else.
I do care about the Kurds, and it is ' hypocritical' to say the US presence in the Middle East was and is for the sake of the Middle East...or the world or whatever...
and essentially that second Irak war was illegal and a warcrime that has costed hundred of thousands of people their lives, mostly Iraki soldiers and citizen.
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Pieter Kers
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #193 on: October 28, 2019, 11:18:20 pm »

Trump lying again:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/28/doubts-over-trump-dramatic-account-baghdadi-raid

Trump glorifying the raid with lurid, fictional descriptions obtained from silent aerial footage? 

Doesn't that bother the Trump supporters at all?  You guys just validate that as "Trump being Trump"?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #194 on: October 28, 2019, 11:28:10 pm »

Trump glorifying the raid with lurid, fictional descriptions obtained from silent aerial footage? 

Doesn't that bother the Trump supporters at all?  You guys just validate that as "Trump being Trump"?
Of course he went "whimpering, screaming, crying all the way."  That's how you diminish the impact of a guy like that.  Don;t you do the same thing against Trump calling him all sorts of names that are untrue:  Nazi, Hitler, racist, etc.  We want to diminish the aura this guy al Baghdadi had so other jerks won;t follow their group.  The enemy is always diminished that way.  They are caricatured.  It's called war propaganda.  We did it in WWII: Nips, Krauts, Japs, Fascists, etc.  The fact is American forces under the command of Trump as Commander-in Chief got the guy.  How about a little applause?  It won't kill ya.  Aren't you happy he's dead?

kers

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #195 on: October 29, 2019, 05:49:55 am »

Trump glorifying the raid with lurid, fictional descriptions obtained from silent aerial footage? 

Doesn't that bother the Trump supporters at all?  You guys just validate that as "Trump being Trump"?

Of course.........
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Pieter Kers
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jeremyrh

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #196 on: October 29, 2019, 07:50:55 am »

How about a little applause? 

Sure - the dog did a great job. Trump? Did what? - apart from pose for fake pictures?
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LesPalenik

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #197 on: October 29, 2019, 07:57:56 am »

Sure - the dog did a great job. Trump? Did what? - apart from pose for fake pictures?

That about sums it up.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #198 on: October 29, 2019, 02:35:49 pm »

I think we beat this to death.  I'm signing off to get on with life.  Carry on.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Incursions into Syria
« Reply #199 on: December 03, 2019, 08:19:42 pm »

So life goes on.  All the angst about the Kurds and the US pulling out.  Just a lot of anti_Trump stuff.  The Turks got their buffer zone and the Kurds make new deals as they always have in the past.  Let the Russians be involved in Middle East intrigue and death. They'll get tired of it too. 

Kurds In Syria Make A Deal With Russia
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/02/784225309/kurds-in-syria-make-a-deal-with-russia
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