Replacement for My Epson 3880 - P800 or P5000?

[pflower]

My 3880 is on its last legs.  However I can't complain since I have had this since it was first introduced (in fact I have 2 - one of which is still working fine - but the other is clearly on its way out) and over the years both have pushed through a huge number of prints.  I can't fault the 3880 - no clogging problems and no other problems to really complain about.

So what to replace it with?  The obvious choice would be the P800.  But I am wondering whether going for a P5000 might not be a better option.  The cost differential is not particularly significant and the use of 200ml cartridges over time will certainly even that out.  That is I assume that the 5000 comes with the roll paper mechanism whereas it is an additional extra on the 800.

So what are the advantages/disadvantages between the 2?  What attracts me  is the ability to use rolls in both and the vacuum feed in the 5000.  I appreciate that the 5000 is significantly larger than both the 3880 and the P800 but I do have space - subject to one caveat.  I load both A3+ and A2 paper in the 3880 through the rear slot.  Neither the 800 or 5000, from what I can tell have a rear slot, instead require front loading.  From what I can tell (from a few videos on YouTube) on the 800 at least you feed from the front but then the sheet is taken upwards by a rear paper guide (in distinction to front feeding on the 3880 where the paper protrudes from the rear significantly).  So how much rear space does one need with both printers to front load A2 paper?  I can probably accommodate whatever is needed but ideally would be restricted to about 24 inches rear clearance.

I use Photo Rag from time to time and that can only be loaded through the rear paper feed on the 3880 if one wants to use the recommended media type of Velvet Fine Art paper.  I assume that the paper tray in the 5000 can't be used for Photo Rag (or can it?) - but what about baryta papers such as Ilford Fibre Silk - could one load A2 in the paper tray and get consistent feed?  I can't get that on the 3880 from the standard feed slot so use the rear slot instead.

Can anyone who has experience with these printers give me some feedback?

Thanks

[BobShaw]

I have the P800 and it came with a roll feed attachment for $1 extra. In Australia the P800 is about 2/3 the price of the P5070.
The P800 seems a good printer, with the usual annoying Epson features. Having to cut the roll paper by hand is a bit pedestrian though.
I use almost exclusively rolls now with Mirage Print. I find it easier than worrying about sheets except for A4 work.

Unlike the 3880, the P800 comes with only partly full cartridges so you are almost straight away into buying more.

[Mick Sang]

So what are the advantages/disadvantages between the 2?  What attracts me  is the ability to use rolls in both and the vacuum feed in the 5000.  I appreciate that the 5000 is significantly larger than both the 3880 and the P800 but I do have space - subject to one caveat.  I load both A3+ and A2 paper in the 3880 through the rear slot.  Neither the 800 or 5000, from what I can tell have a rear slot, instead require front loading.  From what I can tell (from a few videos on YouTube) on the 800 at least you feed from the front but then the sheet is taken upwards by a rear paper guide (in distinction to front feeding on the 3880 where the paper protrudes from the rear significantly).  So how much rear space does one need with both printers to front load A2 paper?  I can probably accommodate whatever is needed but ideally would be restricted to about 24 inches rear clearance

We have both the P800 and the P5000 as well as other epson printers. The P800 is capable of fine colour print quality. But, we use it primarily as an office printer. It is used by many former users of the 3880 and many semi-pro photographers. But, the P5000 is a true professional production machine.

For my money the addition of the orange and green inks alone make it worth the additional cost. You will find those who believe these two inks are only used for prepress proofing and Pantone matching. But, while it is true that these two inks do facilitate that need, they also do much more. The orange and green inks expand the achievable colour gamuts and are used for particularly strong saturated colour which would not be achievable without the participation of these inks. We have done many tests that prove this beyond doubt.

The roll attachment on the P800 is flimsy. The screw attachments often break off.  It is a cheap add-on. The 5000 is designed for rolls and sheets alike. Rolls self load whereas they can be tough to load on the P800.

The P5000 has 1 front loading access, 1 top loading access and one paper drawer for sheets. The auto-load feature assists loading.

The vacuum is a very valuable feature which is not available for the P800. It holds paper flat to the patten whereas curled paper can be trouble in a p800 and quality is diminished.

The P5000, like its SP4900 predecessor, is a fabulous machine. In fact, it is the same machine with new software and HDX inks. Sure, like all Epson printers, some of these printers are more trouble than others. All of our printers have been excellent machines. But, we use them regularly and keep them clean.

In short, the P800 is a good machine for the semi-pro who prints once in awhile. But, the P5000 is a far superior machine.

I hope this helps,

Mick

[langier]

Is is wearing out or the end of the service cycle? The reason I ask is that for 8 years my partner has been running the wheels off her 3880 and when it stops at 5,000 or 8,000 prints, whatever the counter is set, she simply makes an appointment with the nearby Epson repair tech, drives it to him in the morning and brings it home in the afternoon after a few parts, cleaning and resetting the counter. I think it's been serviced twice and it still looks good.

She'll run 300-600 prints at a time, then it sits for 3-5 weeks and then it prints away again. One of the best printers for production I've been around! Even my 2nd hand 9900 takes more work to keep the nozzles clean and keep the paper turning. I've had it about the same length of time and had it serviced several years ago after running a couple a skids of canvas through it. It's 10-11 years old and still going strong.

If you know a good repair person, it may save you a few hundred to service and clean over getting a new one with a new set of profiles, inks, issues.

[Conner999]

IF you're willing to look outside Epson (and rolls), when our problematic 3800 finally pushed my patience too far we replaced it with a Canon Pro 1000 and couldn't be happier.  Vacuum hold-down, smooth sheet operation, replaceable head, no ink-switching, etc.  If all holds up, it will be a permanent shift to Canon for us.

[TeamG]

Neither the 800 or 5000, from what I can tell have a rear slot, instead require front loading.  From what I can tell (from a few videos on YouTube) on the 800 at least you feed from the front but then the sheet is taken upwards by a rear paper guide (in distinction to front feeding on the 3880 where the paper protrudes from the rear significantly).  So how much rear space does one need with both printers to front load A2 paper?  I can probably accommodate whatever is needed but ideally would be restricted to about 24 inches rear clearance.

You can load single sheets down through the rear slot on the P800, it's actually one of the worksrounds when loading via the front tray sometimes becomes a bit problemattic

Have you physically seen the 5000?  I knew it was bigger than the 800 but didn't appreciate just how much biger till I saw it in person.  I've enjoyed my 800 but will probably go to the 7000 in the next six months due to the A1 size in particular

[Alan Goldhammer]

IF you're willing to look outside Epson (and rolls), when our problematic 3800 finally pushed my patience too far we replaced it with a Canon Pro 1000 and couldn't be happier.  Vacuum hold-down, smooth sheet operation, replaceable head, no ink-switching, etc.  If all holds up, it will be a permanent shift to Canon for us.

Canon just released new firmware for the Pro 1000 that increases the paper length one can print on.

[Conner999]

Thanks, I'll check-out the new firmware.

[Mick Sang]

but will probably go to the 7000 in the next six months due to the A1 size in particular

Before you do that, you owe it to yourself to have a close look at the new 7570. We almost purchased a P9000 after looking closely at the Canon Pro 4000. The Canon printers had smaller gamuts and a bronzing issue. The 7000 uses the older head and clogging was a concern; The Epson 10000 has a smaller gamut and the head was too new. But, on Tuesday the new 7570 and 9570 were announced. They appear to be extremely impressive machines. Epson has FINALLY listened to its user base and produced results - apparently. The 9570 will likely be our next machine.

So, if you are planning to purchase a 24" machine in the next 6 months, the 7570 may be a far better choice.

Mick

[Eric Brody]

These new printers sound wonderful, for those on this forum who actually earn money with printing. For those folks the staggering upfront cost is justifiable. I've hated the ink switching since my first Epson, it's more than just the wasted money, it's the wasted ink. For some reason it bothers me disproportionally. If Epson were to produce a 17" printer with these features, even at an inflated price  (eg more than the 5000), I'd probably jump. Canon has tempted me more than once except for the fact that my beloved Quadtone RIP won't work with Canon printers. Actually it's not at all clear that it will work with these new ones either. Time will tell. For now, my trusty 3880 chugs along, making great prints large enough for me and my walls.

[Ferp]

Canon has tempted me more than once except for the fact that my beloved Quadtone RIP won't work with Canon printers. Actually it's not at all clear that it will work with these new ones either. Time will tell. For now, my trusty 3880 chugs along, making great prints large enough for me and my walls.

According to Roy Harrington on the Yahoo QTR forum, it seems unlikely that QTR will ever work on these printers.  He said "Well looking at the specs I don't think there's any way to support the new Pro printers".  What a great shame. 

I'm in precisely the same position as you with a 3880.  Perhaps a P800 might be an option before it is replaced by a smaller version of these new printers, if you want to continue to use QTR.  That would be a tough choice, wouldn't it - QTR vs no black switching?

[Smoothjazz]

I just noticed through October 31st, there is an Epson rebate of $300 for the P800 printer, and $400 dollars for the P5000.
A pretty good deal!

[Smoothjazz]

The rebate brings the price of the P5000 printer down $1,595 for the month of October.

[Eric Brody]

If it's documented that QTR will not work on the new printers, even if they come out with a 17" version, I'm in a similar quandary should my 3880 die. I'll have to choose between the P800, with QTR, and the bleeping ink switching annoyance, or giving up QTR at which point, I'll be looking again at Canon. First world problem to be sure, but challenging nonetheless.

[Ferp]

If it's documented that QTR will not work on the new printers, ....

The only information we have at present is that quote from Roy Harrington in my previous post giving his initial impresions.  In the past he has said that he couldn't support the very large format printers (10000 & 20000?), although it hasn't been clear whether he had access to them in order to make an attempt.  It's not clear what aspect of the specs for these new machines make him think that he couldn't support them either.  Does this mean that no RIP will work with them?  What about ImagePrint or StudioPrint?  Perhaps access to documentation about the internals is needed, and to get that you need to sign a deal with Epson.  The future is rather hazy.

[deanwork]

Studio Print does support the P10k and P 20 k.  The difference in price is $50.00 for the truly amazing QTR and around $2,000.00 for the truly even more amazing Studio Print. The learning curve for getting the same quality out of Studio Print is quite steep but the resolution can be even better and dither even smoother, just very involved and pricey. It’s not necessary for Piezography anymore so I retired mine.

Image Print does not have software for doing grayscale linearizations as is possible with Bowhaus True Black and White for some Canon printers, Qtr for Epson, Studio Print for all of them, and the I1 spectro software incorporated free  in the HP Z printers with their quad approach.

 I asked Roy awhile back why not support the 10k / 20 k since they have the extra light light gray giving it a full quad set, which could be the best qtr Oem prints of all time. But he said it ain’t gonna happen. So the expense of that printer plus Studio Print was more than I could consider. We continue doing Piezo k7 Carbon for warm, and the HpZ with the 6000 patch extended profiling for the neutral prints with no color inks needed. I’m still happy with these solutions. But I do still wonder wonder what a SP linearization could do with the 10k for neutral and toned monochrome.

John

The only information we have at present is that quote from Roy Harrington in my previous post giving his initial impresions.  In the past he has said that he couldn't support the very large format printers (10000 & 20000?), although it hasn't been clear whether he had access to them in order to make an attempt.  It's not clear what aspect of the specs for these new machines make him think that he couldn't support them either.  Does this mean that no RIP will work with them?  What about ImagePrint or StudioPrint?  Perhaps access to documentation about the internals is needed, and to get that you need to sign a deal with Epson.  The future is rather hazy.

[I.T. Supplies]

We were informed that Canon will also be announcing their new series towards the end of October as well, but who knows on the launching date.  Epson's launch date is in December.  I feel that they are sort of copying certain features from Canon like the auto black switch and basket that can be positioned in different ways.

They have updated it for sure, but we will see how it actually works vs them explaining it.  Same body with more black parts too.

It's really based on how big you want to print and with the options available in those sizes to say.  The P800 has been doing very well and P5000 has been updated from its predecessor, but still had clogs if not being used.  Nice part is that Epson integrated the timing feature on this model and larger to help with the clogs.  Doesn't fix the problem, but helps.

Our Epson tech mentioned that no matter what aqueous printer you get, there will be clogs at some point because it's water based ink.  It's actually true; but doesn't mean you'll have certain clogs if printing often and maintain it properly, but can happen during the printers life.

[MfAlab]

The only information we have at present is that quote from Roy Harrington in my previous post giving his initial impresions.  In the past he has said that he couldn't support the very large format printers (10000 & 20000?), although it hasn't been clear whether he had access to them in order to make an attempt.  It's not clear what aspect of the specs for these new machines make him think that he couldn't support them either.  Does this mean that no RIP will work with them?  What about ImagePrint or StudioPrint?  Perhaps access to documentation about the internals is needed, and to get that you need to sign a deal with Epson.  The future is rather hazy.

The print core of QTR is Gutenprint. So, printer's key is in Gutenprint developers' hand. Maybe the new Epson printer use some different low level transfer protocol to stop them access. They can support P10000/P20000, but only three levels of gray. Commercial software is likely no affected, they co-work with Epson to made new drivers for their RIPs. But Epson is adding limit on printer support of "un-original" print way. e.g., Caldera RIP had double pass 2880x2880 dpi super high resolution mode on 7880/9880/11880, but Epson blocked it through firmware update. Caldera super high double resolution print mode is no longer exist after that. New Epson PrecisionCore (after P7000/P9000) is become standard dither algorithm in commercial RIPs widely. RIPs using their own dither algorithm may not get good result as before. It's a bad news for all of us.

[ssgphoto]

One thing that may not be obvious is that the the 3880 /3800 series can print borderless sheets. However, the more robust P5000 rather stupidly does not support this. It can do borderless rolls which is semi useful. It is disappointing that the prosumer version would have this feature and not the more robust printer.  This may not matter to every user, but we primarily use the 17" size machines for portfolios and use larger printers for the everything else. We just added a Canon Pro-1000 as it is the most robust pro printer capable of doing borderless sheets. The rest of my shop is all
Epson so this was not the ideal choice but ultimately necessary. 

[dgberg]

Before you do that, you owe it to yourself to have a close look at the new 7570. We almost purchased a P9000 after looking closely at the Canon Pro 4000. The Canon printers had smaller gamuts and a bronzing issue. The 7000 uses the older head and clogging was a concern; The Epson 10000 has a smaller gamut and the head was too new. But, on Tuesday the new 7570 and 9570 were announced. They appear to be extremely impressive machines. Epson has FINALLY listened to its user base and produced results - apparently. The 9570 will likely be our next machine.

So, if you are planning to purchase a 24" machine in the next 6 months, the 7570 may be a far better choice.

Mick

I appreciate all the advances in the new 75/95 line, but!
I earn money with printing and the new printer for me is just out of line price wise, just not going to happen.
$4700 for the 24" model and you can get the P6000 for $2100 or a P7000 for $2350, that's double.
 I am looking to replace my 44" 9900 soon and I think I am just going to get another P8000.
Already have one converted to dye sublimation. Those extra 2 colors for my work are not needed in my estimation.