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Dave Gurtcheff

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Need PC help/advice
« on: October 31, 2019, 01:25:48 pm »

Greetings all. I am a retired 82 year old amateur. 8.5 years ago, I had Puget Systems custom build my PC. It has 16 GB RAM, a 500mb hard drive that has the Windows 7 PRO 64 bit operating system and my programs, and it also has a 1TB hard drive for my files. I back up to two identical USB external drives.
I now use hi res cameras (Sony A7RII, and Fuji GFX 50R), I do a lot of HDR work, and also combine files to put different skies in my foregrounds, all of which produce very large files. Opening programs, such as Photoshop CS 6, takes forever. I get frequent crashes when I try to open PS and another graphics enhancement program simultaneously. I am thinking of a new PC with 32GB RAM, a solid state drive for the operating system (Win 10 PRO) and programs, and a 1TB hard drive for my files. Here are my concerns:
1. I built my web site about 8.5 years ago, using Microsoft "Expressions Web" program. It is a "plain vanilla" simple web site that I am able to update myself. It is running now on Windows 7. I have no clue how to transition it over from my present PC to a new PC (with different operating systems), and upload it to my web site provider company. I am possibly brain dead now, but I do not even know where the web files are on my PC. I open the program by clicking on the short cut icon. I modify the web pages on my PC, then upload the "changed files" to my service provider. I then "save" the changed pages, but have no idea where my PC puts them. Really need help here.
2. I now use the non subscription Photoshop CS 6. It is fine for what I do. I assume I will have to abandon CS6 and buy a subscription PS?
3. I have a ton of enhancement programs, both plug ins and stand alones. Most do not have CDs; I paid for them and down loaded them. I will need to down load them and try to install them to Win 10. Some are old, discontinued, and may not work on Win 10. I have the passwords and serial numbers written down (9 pages of them).
4. I actually run two versions of Photoshop. I use CS 6 for most of my work. but have to use an older Photoshop to use some of the plug ins that the maker abandoned and will not run on CS 6. I assume these plug ins are gone forever?
I am providing a link to my web site so you can get an idea of it's simple design.
Thanks very much
Dave Gurtcheff
Beach Haven, NJ USA
www.modernpictorials.com
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MattBurt

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2019, 03:47:37 pm »

I think you are going to have to accept a certain amount of things may not work when migrated to a new machine.
But, if you have the serial number and installation for Photoshop CS6, I think that will continue to work. I ran Photoshop CS5 on Windows 10 for years and it was fine.
Your hardware specs look a little on the under-powered side. Might as well get 64 GB ram if you can afford it or at least make sure you have spare available slots to add an additional 32 if you decide to later. So if you stick with 32 GB in a four slot motherboard, get it as dual 16 GB units instead of four 8 GB that would force you to discard them if you wanted to upgrade RAM later.
You also might as well get 1 TB SSD, preferably a M.2 style one instead of SATA. The larger size gives some breathing room after all the OS and application space is used and prices aren't too much higher. M.2 gives faster performance so you might as well do that too. A four or 8 TB data drive could be another consideration. I have a couple of 8 TB drives (and a 1 TB SSD) in my current PC but I probably keep too much.
A good video card will also speed things up, and you will probably get even more performance gains if you get the new CC subscription.
At the core of it all you want a fast processor. 6 and 8 cores are pretty mainstream but for our purposes, a higher clock speed usually gives more than additional cores, although more cores is still not a bad thing.

As for your web site, I think you may want to update that anyway. There are site builder services you can subscribe to that may be able to pull the content over from the old site to make the transition easy. But if you decide to keep it, at least for the time being, it appears that you can still download Microsoft Expression Web 4 (Free Version) here. I don't know where that would be stored locally either but it is surely there somewhere. It's also possible the application will allow you to import an existing site once you have it installed on the new PC. Services like Squarespace, Smugmug, and Zenfolio make setting a photography web site up pretty easy and they integrate the ability to sell directly too if you like. I have a site I built with Zenfolio (www.mattb.net) that is nothing amazing and in need of an update but good enough for my needs and it looks fairly modern.

In any case, keep your old PC handy until you are sure you are done migrating. For things that do not come across well like your plugins, it's not unlikely that there is some more modern equivalent that you may need to try. So don't get hung up on a single product if some have gone by the wayside.

Good luck!
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2019, 04:14:40 pm »

If you are going to outsource the building of a new PC, Puget Systems is still a good place to go.  I built my current workstation several years ago and only put 16GB of RAM into it.  Everything runs perfectly fine as I do most of my work in Lightroom rather than Photoshop.  However, I would recommend 32GB as a standard these days.  I am going to offer advice contrary to what Matt said about using an M.2 drive for the OS and programs.  I don't like these as they bolt onto the motherboard and if something goes wrong, it's a pain to service.  I always put SATA solid state drives in builds that I do.  Windows 10 does not take up much space at all.  My OS drive is a 500GB Samsung SSD and with the OS and a bunch of programs, only 83GB are being used right now.  Some of that is reserved from the recent update that Windows 10 did last week and will be freed up in month or so.  I would recommend a minimum of 2TB hard drive for images and data, maybe more if you are going to be taking lots of pictures.  Drives can fill up quickly and they are cheap in any event.  You need a video card with 6GB RAM according to Adobe to get optimal performance these days and that's pretty much the standard being offered.

You should be able to get the Photoshop download file from Adobe if you bought it from them and have an account.  I can still get all my old programs there even though I don't need them as I have the subscription version.  The only possible problem is that new cameras won't be supported.  I had to move to subscription version of LR as my Nikon Z6 was not supported and they I found out that I had to upgrade to Windows 10 as the subscription version did not run under Windows 8.1.  I cannot help you with the plugins only to say they are tied to Photoshop and not the OS.  It's likely that they will run OK.  You might want to investigate where Photoshop stores them as you could then copy them and reinstall when you get the new computer.

I cannot help you with the website as I built my own from scratch so I could learn HTML coding.  All my web files are in their own directory and I have been using Dreamweaver for editing and Filezilla for uploading. 
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David Sutton

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2019, 04:40:11 pm »

Hello Dave.
I have taken a different tack.
My system was built in 2011. It works fine except for the graphics card, which I need to upgrade.
I replaced the C drive with a SSD for the operating system (500mb is quite enough). Just transferred the operating system over using AcronisTrueImage, I put in a 125mb SSD for a scratch disk for Photoshop. Left the ram at 16gb. It's enough, but I wouldn't say no to 32gb.
As the files sizes got larger I gradually upgraded the other drives with larger ones with fast spin rates.
Photoshop CS6 works fine, apart from some Topaz plug-ins. Half a gb of ram on the video card is not enough, and I'll do something about that.
I have laptop with Windows 8 and I tried Windows 10 and un-installed it. Both operating systems are inferior to Windows 7 IMHO for photographic work and are a real pain to customise.
Keeping your existing operating system and software, and just upgrading the hardware will save a lot of pain. No having to re-install and no putting up with software not working on Windows 10.
If you right click a shortcut icon and select "Properties", you will see where the target files are located.
David
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2019, 04:43:57 pm »

Don't use SATA, it's an obsolete technology. Get a PCIe SSD. They come in different form factors, like the already discussed M.2, or better yet, U.2, which physically looks like like SAS/SATA, both the connector and the 2.5 inch drives themselves.

I'd get at least 64GB RAM, if possible.

Photoshop CS6 and CS5 should continue to work on Windows 10 without problems. You can also subscribe to the newer versions if you so desire, but your older software should continue to work.
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MattBurt

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2019, 05:03:28 pm »

I guess I didn't realize there were other PCIe drive form factors and thought M.2 was it so I'd revise my recommendation to a drive with a PCIe interface, regardless of form factor.

But the M.2 drive I put in my laptop required a single screw and a SATA drive in my desktop required four so there is also that. But regardless, how often do you change primary hard drives? I'm a PC builder and tinkerer and I don't even do it all that often so the convenience of it is not a primary criteria for purchase decisions.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2019, 05:45:22 pm »

I guess I didn't realize there were other PCIe drive form factors and thought M.2 was it so I'd revise my recommendation to a drive with a PCIe interface, regardless of form factor.

But the M.2 drive I put in my laptop required a single screw and a SATA drive in my desktop required four so there is also that. But regardless, how often do you change primary hard drives? I'm a PC builder and tinkerer and I don't even do it all that often so the convenience of it is not a primary criteria for purchase decisions.
I've read a number of reports of M.2 failures and it's a lot easier to change a SATA drive.   It's irrelevant for me as my current work station MoBo does not support an M.2 drive and is plugging along just fine with what I'm running.  For LR editing it really doesn't matter much; PS may be another matter but I don't use it that much.
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David Sutton

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2019, 06:54:07 pm »

Be aware that some of the software you have may no longer be supported and may not re-install. I've had several cases of that.
At least create a disk and partition back up of your C drive so that if you go with Windows 10 and it drives you mad, you can at least go back to your current arrangement.
David
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2019, 07:59:45 pm »

If building a new system from "bare metal", a system image would be my first requirement. If all else fails, you can fall back to this.
Somebody like EaseUS can provide migration software designed for just this purpose.
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Dave Gurtcheff

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2019, 03:45:09 pm »

Thank you all so much. This is a great community, and for old timers like me is a real blessing. Right now I am waiting for my local PC repair guy to get back to me about an "upgrade" to my PC. Puget Systems used all quality components, but I want to upgrade RAM from 16 to 32. I also want to replace my 500gb drive that has the O.S. and all my programs on it with a 500gb SSD. If this is possible, I could keep my present web site programs and files, I could keep Photoshop CS 6 and all my legacy graphic enhancing programs. I know the Video card and CPU are older technology, but I was thinking the two upgrades would speed up the machine a bit, and prevent hangups and crashes, when I run PS and another graphics enhancing program simultaneously. It would not be super fast, but possibly, for the time being, the best of both worlds. I will let everyone know where I am and what I have decided. Thank you all again.
Very best regards
Dave in NJ
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mcbroomf

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2019, 07:17:16 pm »

Have them replace that 1TB drive with a 1 or 2TB SSD as well.  That will make a significant difference and prices are much lower now.
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Peano

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2019, 08:40:36 pm »

my PC. It has 16 GB RAM, a 500mb hard drive that has the Windows 7 PRO 64 bit operating system
***
Photoshop CS 6, takes forever.

I run Win7 Pro/64 and CS6, with 8GB of RAM. Opening PS takes about 13 seconds, which is considerably less than forever. You've summarized a bunch of problems and headaches. Instead of trying to solve them all in one stroke, I would spend some bucks with a local computer expert. Do a little research and find someone who has a good record of helping with such problems (or maybe your current guy fits the bill). You need hands-on help, not distant opinions from people who can't access your computer.
Quote
I modify the web pages on my PC, then upload the "changed files" to my service provider. I then "save" the changed pages, but have no idea where my PC puts them. Really need help here.
Hooo, boy, you sure do! When you save those files, your computer tells you exactly where it is putting them. Get your local guy to show you. There's just no excuse for not understanding something this basic. I don't think you need a new computer. I think you need a better understanding of the one you have now.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 10:31:25 pm by Peano »
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rasworth

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2019, 10:42:40 am »

Peano,

Nothing wrong with your advice except for the derogatory comments.  How about leaving those off next time.

Richard Southworth
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Peano

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2019, 11:20:18 am »

Peano,

Nothing wrong with your advice except for the derogatory comments.  How about leaving those off next time.

Richard Southworth
I didn't make any derogatory comments.

Dave Gurtcheff

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2019, 03:12:14 pm »

I didn't make any derogatory comments.
No offence taken. The Program resides at: C:\Program Data\Microsoft\Start Menu\Programs
When I make changes on my PC and do a "Save As" to see where it is sending the changes it says: D:\My Webs\new modern pictorials web
When I actually look at that location, there are drop down folders. Each folder is a page on my web site, for example "Seascapes", "Bay Images, "Lighthouse Images" etc...there are 14 such folders as there are 14 image pages on my site. Each of these folders has every single image in it. So when I save a revised web page, to me at least, it is difficult to see where the changed pages are being sent. Again, I am 82, so maybe not as sharp as I once was....I built a darkroom in 1959 and made 16"x20 C prints. I am a retired mechanical engineer with a masters degree, and self taught amateur photographer and print maker.
Thanks again Dave
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JaapD

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Re: Need PC help/advice
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2019, 05:13:36 am »

Is it derogatory or just a bit confronting that some of us, me included, see a ‘save as’ as a basic skill that you should be familiar with? As already mentioned, a new computer won’t solve this. I think that a new pc will get yourself an order of a magnitude more trouble.

My advice? Stay with your current pc, get yourself an SSD drive with SATA interface and duplicate your c: drive to the SSD. Don’t do a PCIe drive as your old pc won’t be able to boot from this. This will solve the largest bottleneck you currently have with your pc.

Regards,
Jaap.
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