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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 4101 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #300 on: October 09, 2019, 07:53:34 am »

Yes, but apart from that he's a great guy :-)

You can find good in just about anybody. Some people are making it real hard to find those bits though.

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Bernard

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #301 on: October 09, 2019, 10:33:47 am »

Biden drops to second after Warren.
https://www.vox.com/2019/10/8/20905274/elizabeth-warren-frontrunner-democratic-nomination-2020

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ???). 

What have I missed? 

Universal Child Care for one, but I cant seem to find the overall cost for that program. 

But who knows, maybe she wont be on the ticket.  She just got caught in two new lies.  Apparently she voluntarily left her job when she was a teacher, which is well documented and she admitted to in interviews from 10 years ago, instead of the current claim that she was fired because she was pregnant.  Also, her mother's temperament about her going to college was not as bad as she made out, albeit this revelation is due to her highly inconsistent accounts from today and in previous decades. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 10:40:33 am by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #302 on: October 09, 2019, 10:37:27 am »

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ???). 

What have I missed?
Debt financed trillion dollar tax cut for the rich by the Republicans?

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #303 on: October 09, 2019, 10:41:42 am »

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ???). 

What have I missed? 

Universal Child Care for one, but I cant seem to find the overall cost for that program.

It's cute how people are suddenly concerned with unreasonable spending again now that it's time to potentially elect a Democrat.  Oddly enough, I heard a lot of these concerns in 2008-2016 too.   Since then it's been relatively quiet.  Quite odd, isn't it? 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #304 on: October 09, 2019, 10:44:29 am »

Debt financed trillion dollar tax cut for the rich by the Republicans?

I am by no means rich, and I got a nice tax cut from that plan.  Getting a 20% discount on our taxable income certainly brought us down a tax bracket and saved a few thousand.  Also, lets not forget that Trump wanted to increase taxes on those earning their sole income from investments and hedge funds, which I agree with, but the Republicans refused to pass it.  I was quite disappointed with this, but I put the disappointment where it makes sense, with the congress not the executive. 

Last, Warren's plan would sky rocket the debt a lot faster then Trump's. 
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Joe Kitchen
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #305 on: October 09, 2019, 10:53:27 am »

It's cute how people are suddenly concerned with unreasonable spending again now that it's time to potentially elect a Democrat.  Oddly enough, I heard a lot of these concerns in 2008-2016 too.   Since then it's been relatively quiet.  Quite odd, isn't it?

I do agree with this; I find it unsettling that the Republican spend money just like the Dems do, albeit in different areas. 

But lets look at this with some perspective.  The Republicans love spending money on defense and if you look at all four military sectors plus outside spending, this is about $7T over tens years, which is the time period of the above figures. 

Warrens total so far is $135T over ten years, in additional spending, or about 19 times higher.  If you took out the Green New Deal, her proposal would still cost 6 times more then what the Republicans like to spend on defense. 

Any way you look at it, her proposals would require an obscene amount of capital. 

Right now the race is between Trump and some fantasy Dem that the general electorate has no concept of since no candidate has yet emerged as the clear front runner.  So all of the current polling rest on this fantasy candidate running against Trump.  At some point in time though, a clear front runner will emerge and the reality of who is running will hit the general electorate.  If that candidate is Warren, when that reality hits, all of these extremely expensive policy proposals will be front and center in people's minds.  I just cant see it being a winning message.   
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 11:00:58 am by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #306 on: October 09, 2019, 01:09:17 pm »

I am by no means rich, and I got a nice tax cut from that plan.  Getting a 20% discount on our taxable income certainly brought us down a tax bracket and saved a few thousand.
I am glad you got something out of it. Kind of like a credit card cash advance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-time-history-us-billionaires-paid-lower-tax-rate-than-working-class-last-year/
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 01:29:22 pm by faberryman »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #307 on: October 09, 2019, 01:38:03 pm »

I am glad you got something out of it. Kind of like a credit card cash advance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-time-history-us-billionaires-paid-lower-tax-rate-than-working-class-last-year/

Thank you for addressing my first point while completely ignoring my point that I was for increasing taxes on hedge funds, as was the president, but congress had a different idea.   
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Joe Kitchen
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #308 on: October 09, 2019, 02:00:58 pm »

Debt financed trillion dollar tax cut for the rich by the Republicans?
Tax cuts are not expenditures.  Most liberals don;t understand that the government does not own or earn the tax money they collect.   The money never belonged to them.  So tax cuts are just leaving more money earned with those who earned the money in the first place.    Tax cut dollars belong to the taxpayer to begin with.

That's different than expenditures which is money spent from the earnings of the taxpayer.   So when Warren or others call for "free" this and "free" that, what they're really saying is we intend to have the government take more money that you earned and give it to others through income redistribution, the hallmark of Socialism, Communism and Marxism.   The program and cost for them that she intends to carry out would make the Russian Revolution look like nickel and dime stuff.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #309 on: October 09, 2019, 02:16:26 pm »

It's cute how people are suddenly concerned with unreasonable spending again now that it's time to potentially elect a Democrat.  Oddly enough, I heard a lot of these concerns in 2008-2016 too.   Since then it's been relatively quiet.  Quite odd, isn't it? 
Both Republicans and Democrats have been buying the vote from the public by giving away more things than we can afford. So we have trillion dollar deficits and $22 trillion in debt.  We borrow from the Chinese and print up the rest. Of course, the blame ultimately lies with us because we refuse to give up any "free" stuff.  Of course, the huge new freebies the Democrat candidates for presidency plan to implement would make a Marxist blush. The amounts could fill the Pacific Ocean's  Mariana Trench.  So sure.  It's being discussed and should be.  Frankly, people should also ask why Trump is adding on so much debt.  He's not much better.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #310 on: October 09, 2019, 03:06:31 pm »

Tax cuts are not expenditures.  Most liberals don;t understand that the government does not own or earn the tax money they collect.   The money never belonged to them.  So tax cuts are just leaving more money earned with those who earned the money in the first place.    Tax cut dollars belong to the taxpayer to begin with.

That's different than expenditures which is money spent from the earnings of the taxpayer.   So when Warren or others call for "free" this and "free" that, what they're really saying is we intend to have the government take more money that you earned and give it to others through income redistribution, the hallmark of Socialism, Communism and Marxism.   The program and cost for them that she intends to carry out would make the Russian Revolution look like nickel and dime stuff.

More third-rate ideological tripe. Taxes are how we pay for the common expenditures that we incur. There's nothing philosophical about it. You live in a society, you have joint responsibilities, you pay for them, that's all she wrote. All discussions about whether taxes are right or wrong are utter b*llshit. The real conversation is in deciding what you want to pay for collectively. Once you know that, you divvy up the costs. And anyway, when you pay taxes the money doesn't disappear into a black hole.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #311 on: October 09, 2019, 03:13:26 pm »

I feel like the real fantasy land is that Warren can actually win in a general election. 

She just released a statement vowing $1T for areas hit by industrial pollution.  I mean whats another trillion, right?, after $93T for the Green New Deal, $30T for Medicare-For-All, $6T to $14T for slavery and Native American repatriations, another $1.25T for wipe out college debt and give free college to anyone who wants to go (and to think my college debt is almost completely paid off; will I be able to get cold hard cash instead  ??? ). 

What have I missed? 

Universal Child Care for one, but I cant seem to find the overall cost for that program. 

But who knows, maybe she wont be on the ticket.  She just got caught in two new lies.  Apparently she voluntarily left her job when she was a teacher, which is well documented and she admitted to in interviews from 10 years ago, instead of the current claim that she was fired because she was pregnant. Also, her mother's temperament about her going to college was not as bad as she made out, albeit this revelation is due to her highly inconsistent accounts from today and in previous decades. 


Of course, she's being protected by the liberal anti-Trump press, all the major media.  They're ignoring that part of the story for the most part amplifying how she got "fired" for being pregnant which is her lying again and the press swearing to it and playing up thi untruth for her benefit.  Here's her original statement she said years ago about the issue.   Nothing about getting fired.  She lied just as she lied about her Indian heritage. 


"[M]y first year post-graduation I worked in a public school system with the children with disabilities. I did that for a year, and then that summer I didn't have the education courses, so I was on an "emergency certificate," it was called. I went back to graduate school and took a couple of courses in education and said, "I don't think this is going to work out for me." I was pregnant with my first baby, so I had a baby and stayed home for a couple of years, and I was really casting about, thinking, "What am I going to do?""[/font][/size]
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/liberal-media-ignore-elizabeth-warrens-lie-about-pregnancy-related-firing

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #312 on: October 09, 2019, 03:16:57 pm »

Where's Hillary when we need her?

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #313 on: October 09, 2019, 03:24:40 pm »

More third-rate ideological tripe. Taxes are how we pay for the common expenditures that we incur. There's nothing philosophical about it. You live in a society, you have joint responsibilities, you pay for them, that's all she wrote. All discussions about whether taxes are right or wrong are utter b*llshit. The real conversation is in deciding what you want to pay for collectively. Once you know that, you divvy up the costs. And anyway, when you pay taxes the money doesn't disappear into a black hole.

I was making the point that tax cuts are not expenditures as the poster had implied.  He was wrong. 

faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #314 on: October 09, 2019, 03:27:44 pm »

I was making the point that tax cuts are not expenditures as the poster had implied.  He was wrong.

I didn't say tax cuts were expenditures. I said they were debt financed, meaning the government is borrowing money to make the tax cuts possible. Otherwise, Congress would have had to cut expenditures an equivalent amount, and Congress certainly isn't interested in that. I hope that you, like Joe, were the beneficiary of the tax cuts. Most Americans got little or nothing from them.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:07:02 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #315 on: October 09, 2019, 04:06:49 pm »

I didn't say taxes were expenditures. I said they were debt financed, meaning we are borrowing the money to make the tax cuts possible. Otherwise, we would have had to cut expenditures an equivalent amount, and Congress certainly isn't interested in that.
Lower taxes are not debt financed.  Expenditures are debt financed.  We are borrowing to make the expenditures possible. Of course, if tax collection is less than spending, we have to borrow or print.  But it's spending that decides how much taxes you need.  The government pays interest on the deficit and debt, money spent.  Not on the tax money not collected.  Unless we get spending under control, we're in trouble.  There's not enough tax money available that won't hurt the economy with the programs the Democrats are proposing.  The Republicans are better, but not by much.   

faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #316 on: October 09, 2019, 04:18:25 pm »

Lower taxes are not debt financed.  Expenditures are debt financed.  We are borrowing to make the expenditures possible. Of course, if tax collection is less than spending, we have to borrow or print.  But it's spending that decides how much taxes you need.  The government pays interest on the deficit and debt, money spent.  Not on the tax money not collected.  Unless we get spending under control, we're in trouble.  There's not enough tax money available that won't hurt the economy with the programs the Democrats are proposing.  The Republicans are better, but not by much.
Expenditures are not debt financed. The difference between taxes collected and expenditures made are debt financed. When expenditures stay the same or are increased, lower taxes mean increased debt. It is a direct correlation. Tax collections are replaced by debt. The more taxes are cut, the more debt increases. Such deficit financing gave us two quarters of modest economic growth. Economists have referred to it as a "sugar high". Hardly worth the price of increasing the debt.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:23:06 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #317 on: October 09, 2019, 04:28:09 pm »

Expenditures are not debt financed. The difference between taxes collected and expenditures made are debt financed. When expenditures stay the same or are increased, lower taxes mean increased debt. It is a direct correlation. Such deficit financing gave us two quarters of modest economic growth. Economists have referred to it as a "sugar high". Hardly worth the price of increasing the debt.

Yes, expenditures beyond tax collection is debt financed.  I said that: "Of course, if tax collection is less than spending, we have to borrow or print."  But it's expenditures that drive taxes and debt.  I agree with you that it's a sugar high.  It's like getting a new credit card.  It feels great until the end of the month when you get the statement.  :o


Deficit financing gets you growth.  But it's phoney.  Then when you start to pay it back, it hurts the economy.  The interest payment alone kill the budget.  It's just kicking the can down the road.  It's the same as credit card debt.  Pay now or pay later. It costs more later. 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #318 on: October 09, 2019, 05:55:17 pm »

Anyone interested in a factual analysis about the impact of the rate/distribution of taxes as a function of revenue on the economy and unbalanced accumulation of wealth should read Thomas Pickety.

Hint, he is a strong inspiration for Warren and Sanders.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #319 on: October 09, 2019, 06:19:12 pm »

Anyone interested in a factual analysis about the impact of the rate/distribution of taxes as a function of revenue on the economy and unbalanced accumulation of wealth should read Thomas Pickety.

Hint, he is a strong inspiration for Warren and Sanders.

Cheers,
Bernard

I never heard of Piketty until now.  So I read up on him.  Piketty, born in France,  is a leftist who believes in the global redistribution of wealth to eliminate income inequality.  I'm not shocked if Sanders and Warren are inspired by him.  While he points out income inequality, he doesn;t seem to get to why it is bad.  In America, regardless of the difference, the poor have never been so rich.  So if the system is helping people out of poverty, at least in America (much of his research is in France), he doesn;t explain why income distribution is not good as it is. 


Of course, the socialists and Marxists are excited by his desire to have the government grab people's money and spread it around.  Also, his parents were Trotskyists but supposedly gave that up before he was borne.  I'm suspicious considering his philosophy.  He also says he was turned off to Socialism when he visited the Soviet Union and favors capitalism.  Again I'm suspicious.  If Sanders thinks highly of him, I suspect he's like him too.  If it quacks like a duck, walk like a duck, ...well you know the rest. 
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