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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 118910 times)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2960 on: January 10, 2020, 09:22:01 am »


Here are two examples of such practices:
1. Most doctors and even some nutritionists are still advocating consumption of milk and other dairy products which has been proven as harmful for bones, heart and weight gain, including increase of cholesterol, and for prostate and ovarian cancers.

https://www.peta.org/living/food/reasons-stop-drinking-milk/   


I am intrigued by this. 

I do realize that outside of people of Northern European descent 90% of the world is lactose intolerant, but the vast majority of people of Northern European descent are lactose persistent. 

Do the studies take this into account?  I mean, yes, I would surely agree that non-Europeans should not drink milk due to this.  However, do these studies differentiate out those of Northern European descent?

I drink milk like it is no ones business and have never had any issues with it, but I am a mutt of Northern European ethnicities. 
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2961 on: January 10, 2020, 09:24:58 am »

"It is an eternal truth that acquiescence under insult is not the way to escape war." Thomas Jefferson

Fair enough, but Iran isn't exactly the Third Reich, is it.

Both Iran and Iraq were fairly modern progressive states at one point, relative to feudal states like Saudi Arabia and others, but I don't think you can argue that interference helped them much or made us any safer.

What is the long-term objective, what is the exit strategy? Flying in and shooting a general now and then doesn't sound like a plan to me.
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scooby70

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2962 on: January 10, 2020, 09:51:32 am »

Unfortunately these once modern states are embroiled in difficulties going back to 632 (or there abouts) and would very likely be killing each other in an effort to spread their own version of faith had the outside western world never got involved.

As far as comparing Iran to the 3rd Reich, when a country shoots dissenters on the street (and who knows exactly how many have been killed in the recent anti regime protests?) carries out mass arrests and uses torture and rape as weapons with which to oppress control and terrorise its own population no comparisons are off the table.
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2963 on: January 10, 2020, 10:06:01 am »

But for oil, I'm sure the rest of the world would have looked the other way until they had settled their internal ideological differences and a clear, winning survivor had stepped forward to be recognized by the rest of the world order.

Looking away is what we were mostly doing on the African continent, post-empires, and would still be doing, but for those inflatable boats.

The world's a village now, and the keepers of brothers starting to have a tough time...

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2964 on: January 10, 2020, 10:23:22 am »

If Iran was merely a isolated rogue nation seeking to get the bomb solely for ensuring it's survival, like North Korea, things would be different.  But Iran wants to both have total regional dominance and to destroy Israel.  On top of that, they are religious fanaticals, meaning I would not put anything past them. 

Considering Iran can so easily "shoot dissenters on the street ... carries out mass arrests and uses torture and rape as weapons with which to oppress" to their own people, can you imagine what they would do to others, like Sunnis and Kurds? 

Lets look at it another way.  Lets say the Nazi's never invaded France or attempted to invade England, remaining largely territorial, but still implemented the Holocaust.  In that situation, should we have sat back and done nothing?  If Iran only invades Iraq, but then engages in genocide of Sunni's and Kurds, should we just ignore it because they stopped at Iraq's border? 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 10:29:31 am by JoeKitchen »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2965 on: January 10, 2020, 10:26:28 am »

I am intrigued by this. 

I do realize that outside of people of Northern European descent 90% of the world is lactose intolerant, but the vast majority of people of Northern European descent are lactose persistent. 

Do the studies take this into account?  I mean, yes, I would surely agree that non-Europeans should not drink milk due to this.  However, do these studies differentiate out those of Northern European descent?

I drink milk like it is no ones business and have never had any issues with it, but I am a mutt of Northern European ethnicities.

Joe, I used to drink also a lot of milk and ate yoghurt and cheese. In my early twenties, I spent some time in Finland, and there I drank at least one liter of milk everyday, as do many Finns. About 10 years ago, I became aware of the health problems associated with dairy and got off it. For my breakfast serials and occasional glass of milk, I replaced cow milk with almond milk which I find now tastier than the former. By eliminating dairy, I lost some weight and lowered my cholesterol level.

Being lactose intolerant and experiencing occasional bowel syndromes is just one minor problem. Bigger problems are increased chances of cancer and heart disease, weakened bones, increased allergies, and other ailments. The antibiotics and growth hormones are present in most dairy products unless you have your own cow or goat grazing on grass.

Quote
A large observational cohort study in Sweden found that women consuming more than 3 glasses of milk a day had almost twice the mortality over 20 years compared to those women consuming less than one glass a day. In addition, the high milk-drinkers did not have improved bone health. In fact, they had more fractures, particularly hip fractures.

There are as many articles and studies showing benefits of milk (older articles and studies paid for by dairy industry) as they are warnings (including more recent observational studies). One of the main fallacies for drinking milk is improved bone health. In reality the calcium in cow milk hurts your bones. Occasional glass of milk or an ice cream cone won't kill you, but regular dairy consumption will speed up the process.

You can search online for benefits and dangers of milk consumption and decide for yourself. Here is the link to the above quote, and other similar articles:
 
https://nutritionstudies.org/12-frightening-facts-milk/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dairy-free-dairy-6-reason_b_558876

https://www.healthline.com/health/is-milk-bad-for-you
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2966 on: January 10, 2020, 10:29:41 am »

My wife sometimes calls me nuts.  How can I argue.  She's got two Masters.

But wives are always right <g>!
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2967 on: January 10, 2020, 10:39:26 am »

So you're a psychiatrist, or at least an MD with psychiatric training? Right? And your diagnosis of Trump is. . ?

This is a very typical right-wing "argument." If a group of experts says something that does not jibe with your pre-conceived notions, first try to discredit the group (the psychiatric association) and then try to discredit the messenger (me). Of course changing what you think is out of the question.
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2968 on: January 10, 2020, 10:43:13 am »

If Iran was merely a isolated rogue nation seeking to get the bomb solely for ensuring it survival, like North Korea, things would be different.  But Iran wants to both have total regional dominance and to destroy Israel.  On top of that, they are religious fanaticals, meaning I would not put anything past them. 

Considering Iran can so easily "shoot dissenters on the street ... carries out mass arrests and uses torture and rape as weapons with which to oppress" to their own people, can you imagine what they would do to others, like Sunnis and Kurds? 

Lets look at it another way.  Lets say the Nazi's never invaded France or attempted to invade England, remaining largely territorial, but still implemented the Holocaust.  In that situation, should we have sat back and done nothing?  If Iran only invades Iraq, but then engages in genocide of Sunni's and Kurds, she we just ignore it?
Nkorea is only isolated from your point of view- China and Japan think otherwise... NKorea has camps with thousands of prisoners... treats its population like shit, has not even enough food for them and has never intended to give up their nuclear rocket program, because it is the only reason the regime can stay in charge.
Even Trump (hopefully) understands that now. Kim used Trump to emphasis its importance in the world and tried to get the sanctions lifted without compromizing its nuclear program.
Iran was willing to stop their program and did, before Trump stept out of the agreement that was supported by many nations worldwide. On top of that Trump came with sanctions not only for trading between the US and Iran, but forbid trade between Iran and any country or else...
I am not saying i agree with the Iranian government; they have a very bad record on human rights, of whom the women carry most of the burden. But the Iranian government has shown it can act logical and has not violated the deal they made. The inspections showed they kept their promises. Kim can never be trusted as records has shown.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 10:50:04 am by kers »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2969 on: January 10, 2020, 10:43:59 am »

This is a very typical right-wing "argument." If a group of experts says something that does not jibe with your pre-conceived notions, first try to discredit the group (the psychiatric association) and then try to discredit the messenger (me). Of course changing what you think is out of the question.

What?  Russ tried to discredit the Psychiatric Association?  ???

I believe that Russ was agreeing with the APA (the experts) when it came to the Goldwater Rule.  It is you who insists that the experts (the APA) are wrong and that we can give public assessments of Trump's mental health without an examination. 

Shall I again post what the experts, the APA, say on this? 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 10:52:41 am by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2970 on: January 10, 2020, 10:51:32 am »

Nkorea is only isolated from your point of view- China and Japan think otherwise... NKorea has camps with thousands of prisoners... treats its population like shit, has not even enough food for them and has never intended to give up their nuclear rocket program, because it is the only reason the regime can stay in charge.
Even Trump (hopefully) understands that now. Kim used Trump to emphasis its importance in the world.
Iran was willing to stop their program and did, before Trump stept out of the agreement that was supported by many nations worldwide. On top of that Trump came with sanctions not only for trading between the US and Iran, but forbid trade with iran with any country or else...
I am not saying i agree with the Iranian government; they have a very bad record on human rights, of whom the women carry most of the burden. But the Iranian government has shown it can act logical and has not violated the deal they made. The inspections showed they kept their promises. Kim can never be trusted as records has shown.

The idea that Iran was docile while the Iran Nuclear deal was in place is absurd.  The day the deal went into effect, they took 5 American hostage and demended a $400M ransom to get them back.  (Of course Obama insists this was not a ransom, but his secretary of state confirmed their release was prerequisite on the delivery of the money, which is one way to define ransom.) 

The fact is Iran merely changed tactics.  They wanted to get a nuclear weapon so they could then use that as a way to dominate the region.  Then, Obama promised to lift sanctions and give them a boat load of money.  Additionally Obama showed them how weak he was with using deterrents.  Both of these allowed them to change tactics to supporting militias (with moneys gained from the Obama cash and increased economic activity of decreased sanctions) and friendly regimes to gain dominance.  They even got so brazen that they started to directly involve themselves with attacks on shipping. 

On top of that, there is no way that we can definitely say Iran was following the deal.  They only allowed inspectors to come after they were invited or gave warning, and military bases were off limits.  Not to mention the deal really did not solve anything, just kicked it down the road a bit. 

PS, you still did not answer my question.  It is obvious that if Iran gains influence, or takes over Iraq, the Sunnis and Kurds are destine for intense oppression and/or genocide.  Does this concern you, or would you be okay with leaving Iran alone if they promised to not to go any further then Iraq?  If they promised, would you believe them?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 11:26:53 am by JoeKitchen »
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2971 on: January 10, 2020, 10:52:04 am »

This is a very typical right-wing "argument." If a group of experts says something that does not jibe with your pre-conceived notions, first try to discredit the group (the psychiatric association) and then try to discredit the messenger (me). Of course changing what you think is out of the question.

Peter, you said this:

False, and I should know as I spent some 15 years "training" med students. What you say is true of some, but not all. And, main point here, it's that TRAINING that teaches them how to recognize mental disorders.

And I said this:

So you're a psychiatrist, or at least an MD with psychiatric training? Right? And your diagnosis of Trump is. . ?

All I can say to your response, above, to my question is what my Canadian friends always say: "Eh?"
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2972 on: January 10, 2020, 10:57:05 am »

Nkorea is only isolated from your point of view- China and Japan think otherwise... NKorea has camps with thousands of prisoners... treats its population like shit, has not even enough food for them and has never intended to give up their nuclear rocket program, because it is the only reason the regime can stay in charge.
Even Trump (hopefully) understands that now. Kim used Trump to emphasis its importance in the world and tried to get the sanctions lifted without compromizing its nuclear program.
Iran was willing to stop their program and did, before Trump stept out of the agreement that was supported by many nations worldwide. On top of that Trump came with sanctions not only for trading between the US and Iran, but forbid trade with iran with any country or else...
I am not saying i agree with the Iranian government; they have a very bad record on human rights, of whom the women carry most of the burden. But the Iranian government has shown it can act logical and has not violated the deal they made. The inspections showed they kept their promises. Kim can never be trusted as records has shown.

The official "inspections" were a farce, and obviously they fooled not only the inspectors, but also some of the western media.

Quote
In spite of the probable futility of the inspections, they were carried out in September 2015, and were described thus by the director general: “The Iranian side played a part in the sample-taking process by swiping samples.

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-IAEA-inspection-at-Parchin-a-farce-in-three-acts-419424

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/foreign-policy/middle-east/iran/iran-iaea-agreement-text/

A more comprehensive article on the flawed Iran deal was published by Atlantic last year:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/iran-nuclear-deal-flawed/559595/

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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2973 on: January 10, 2020, 11:12:56 am »

The official "inspections" were a farce, and obviously they fooled not only the inspectors, but also some of the western media.

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-IAEA-inspection-at-Parchin-a-farce-in-three-acts-419424

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/foreign-policy/middle-east/iran/iran-iaea-agreement-text/

A more comprehensive article on the flawed Iran deal was published by Atlantic last year:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/iran-nuclear-deal-flawed/559595/

I don't read hard evidence; A lot of opinion; the Jerusalem Post is completely biased.
What you say is: the IAEA-inspectors are dombos, including all countries involved in the deal.
( I hear RSL shooting in the background:  Chamberlain, Chamberlain...Chamberlain!)

Talking about more smoke:
Quote
Pompeo: US didn't know when, where Soleimani attacks would happen
Pompeo says there is 'no doubt' Soleimani was planning imminent attacks, but US did not know 'precisely' when or where.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/pompeo-didn-soleimani-attacks-happen-200110134829572.html

and then Trump again:
Quote
Trump says he deserves Nobel Peace Prize not Abiy Ahmed
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51063149
He almost brought war to the ME a few days ago, and now wants the Nobel Peace Price...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 11:19:30 am by kers »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2974 on: January 10, 2020, 11:23:13 am »


The basic thing here is that so many just want to desperately believe that Obama was right.  And even after years of proof he was wrong, people are still clinging on.  No wonder he got a Netflix deal. 

Insofar as Soleimani, he was a terrorist.  As a terrorist, he plans and performs terrorist attacks, like the attack on our embassy.  He was in Iraq meeting with the leader of a terrorist organization that was the group whom the Iranians got to attack our embassy.  Although we may not know exactly what he was planning to do next, it is certain he was going to do something. 

By the way, if you need to know about a specific imminent threat that a terrorist is about to do in order to justify taking that terrorist out, please tell me what specific event Bin Laden was planning when he was killed.  Seems to me that he was no longer a serious threat when Obama did him in, but no one really seemed to care. 

Well Joe Biden did, because, you know, if Obama screwed it up he would not be re-elected. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 11:29:28 am by JoeKitchen »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2975 on: January 10, 2020, 11:26:17 am »


https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-IAEA-inspection-at-Parchin-a-farce-in-three-acts-419424

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/foreign-policy/middle-east/iran/iran-iaea-agreement-text/

A more comprehensive article on the flawed Iran deal was published by Atlantic last year:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/iran-nuclear-deal-flawed/559595/

Finally, some dissenting opinions from sources that are worth reading. That's all I was asking for. Thank you.

What I was getting at in my earlier post was that at one point in time, the "west" had a lot more in common with Persia/Iran than it ever did (or has) with Saudi Arabia. It is very difficult not to be suspicious of this kind of outcome because the US has an unfortunate history of supporting various scumbags around the world. I understand the concept of marriage of convenience, but no one should be surprised when people in those places dislike the US. ("Why do they hate us so much?") It's a bit insufferable to listen to the self-righteous tell us that they're doing this to spread democracy, although I understand that's largely for the domestic TV market. It's something people want to hear I guess.

And yes I know that those foreign places have hated each other for a while now. Is that a reason to make it worse? Is it even a reason to get involved, especially if there is no long-term strategy.

But who knows, maybe it's working. Aside from immediate doom and gloom, the long-term trajectory is that things are improving. We no longer have multi-nation wars where millions of people die for nebulous reasons, with the exception of the fight against Hitler.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2976 on: January 10, 2020, 11:33:43 am »

Well in other news, AOC is using her war chest to finance the primaries of radical progressives like her and then stiffing the DNC.  Mainstream Dems are not pleased.  My favorite quote is, “Sometimes the question comes: 'Do you want to be in a majority or do you want to be in the minority?'” Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y. 

There are even rumors the NY state Dems are going to draw her out of her district in 2021. 

I honestly think she does not realize that outside of a few districts, a candidate like her would have no chance in the general.  I hope the primaries she is supporting go well. 
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2977 on: January 10, 2020, 11:35:08 am »

Ummm, So you don't look at hard evidence? 

The basic thing here is that so many just want to desperately believe that Obama was right.  And even after years of proof he was wrong, people are still clinging on.  No wonder he got a Netflix deal. 

Insofar as Soleimani, he was a terrorist.  As a terrorist, he plans and performs terrorist attacks, like the attack on our embassy.  He was in Iraq meeting with the leader of a terrorist organization that was the group whom the Iranians got to attack our embassy.  Although we may not know exactly what he was planning to do next, it is certain he was going to do something. 

By the way, if you need to know about a specific imminent threat that a terrorist if about to do in order to justify taking that terrorist out, please tell me what specific event Bin Laden was planning when he was killed.  Seems to me that he was no longer a serious threat when Obama did him in.

There is no hard evidence! It has nothing to do with Obama... You make this up. Years of proof????? Show me - not in years, but in evidence.
There is only hard evidence that Iran kept its commitments.
Killing Soleimani did not make things saver for American citizen/ military... on the contrary. ( 1+ 1 =2)
I am sure he would have done.... something... ??? Who doesn't?
Bin Laden? He was direct responsible for the killing 3000 US citizen and the destruction of the twin towers...
The idea was to capture him, but he was killed... as i believe. Drones already existed and killing him would have made it less dangerous for the military involved.

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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2978 on: January 10, 2020, 11:37:52 am »

Well in other news, AOC is using her war chest to finance the primaries of radical progressives like her and then stiffing the DNC.  Mainstream Dems are not pleased.  My favorite quote is, “Sometimes the question comes: 'Do you want to be in a majority or do you want to be in the minority?'” Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y. 

There are even rumors the NY state Dems are going to draw her out of her district in 2021. 

I honestly think she does not realize that outside of a few districts, a candidate like her would have no chance in the general.  I hope the primaries she is supporting go well.

Of occurs she doesn't realize that - there is undeniably a faction of far-left ideologues in the Dem party that doesn't see this.  BUT...now we can dispense with the silly idea that AOC is some sort of spokesperson for everyone to the left of Trump, yes?

And in ACTUAL other news of the "witch hunt" variety (and you'll find zero mention of this on Fox (I looked), which is weird because it's taken as a truism in state media circles that HRC is a crook, but I guess nothing can be allowed to contradict the narrative),  Hillary and the Clinton Foundation have found to be clean.  Again.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 11:41:59 am by James Clark »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2979 on: January 10, 2020, 11:39:09 am »

I don't read hard evidence; A lot of opinion; the Jerusalem Post is completely biased.
What you say is: the IAEA-inspectors are dombos, including all countries involved in the deal.
( I hear RSL in the background shooting:  Chamberlain, Chamberlain...Chamberlain!)

Talking about more smoke:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/pompeo-didn-soleimani-attacks-happen-200110134829572.html

and then Trump again:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51063149
Almost brought war the ME a few days ago, and now wants the Nobel Peace Price...

1. Maybe you should read more hard evidence.
2. If anything, aljazeera is more biased than jpost.
3. References to Chamberlain and his declaration of "Peace for our time" are very valid at this time. Same naivety then with ceasing Czechoslovakia to Germany as the well intended, but flawed Iran deal under Obama.

Here is some background information about the Munich Betrayal and Chamberlain:
In May 1938 Hitler and his generals were drawing up a plan for the occupation of Czechoslovakia. The Czechoslovakia was relying on military assistance from France, with which they had an alliance. The Soviet Union also had a treaty with Czechoslovakia, and it indicated willingness to cooperate with France and Great Britain if they decided to come to Czechoslovakia’s defense.
However, both the French and British leadership naively believed that peace could be saved only by the transfer of the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia to Germany, so Czechoslovakia was informed by Britain and France that it could either resist Germany alone or submit to the prescribed annexations.

Quote
In mid-September Chamberlain offered to go to Hitler’s retreat at Berchtesgaden to discuss the situation personally with the Führer. Hitler agreed to take no military action without further discussion, and Chamberlain agreed to try to persuade his cabinet and the French to accept the results of a plebiscite in the Sudetenland. Daladier and his foreign minister, Georges-Étienne Bonnet, then went to London, where a joint proposal was prepared stipulating that all areas with a population that was more than 50 percent Sudeten German be turned over to Germany. The Czechoslovaks were not consulted. The Czechoslovak government initially rejected the proposal but was forced to accept it on September 21.

On September 22 Chamberlain again flew to Germany and met Hitler at Bad Godesberg, where he was dismayed to learn that Hitler had stiffened his demands: he now wanted the Sudetenland occupied by the German army and the Czechoslovaks evacuated from the area by September 28. Chamberlain agreed to submit the new proposal to the Czechoslovaks, who rejected it, as did the British cabinet and the French. On the 24th the French ordered a partial mobilization; the Czechoslovaks had ordered a general mobilization one day earlier. Having at that time one of the world’s best-equipped armies, Czechoslovakia could mobilize 47 divisions, of which 37 were for the German frontier, and the mostly mountainous line of that frontier was strongly fortified. On the German side the final version of “Case Green,” as approved by Hitler on May 30, showed 39 divisions for operations against Czechoslovakia. The Czechoslovaks were ready to fight but could not win alone.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Munich-Agreement 
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