Impeaching Donald Trump

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Oh, so we're not quite racists.  It's a little less black or white, eh?  We're just desperate enablers lacking in good judgment. Gee. I feel better already.

The point is, people have a choice. Choices have consequences.

[Robert Roaldi]

"It's the economy, stupid."

That's one measurement, of course.

I was listening to an economist on some podcast the other day (sorry, can't remember which one right now) who said that the yearly interest on the federal government debt is currently on the same order of magnitude as military spending, and if things continue as they are now (which they rarely do, of course) those two items will crowd out everything else in the budget in another 20 years or so. That's a little sobering.

It's funny how "conservatives" preach belt-tightening and living within one means while running for office, then do something different when in power. Trump's tax changes were touted to allow entrepreneurs to keep more of their money so that they could invest in the economy and thus create more jobs. (Funny, I thought you guys already did that trickle-down thing under Reagan, why do you need to do it again?)  The implication was that there was something stopping them from doing so previously, that somehow they weren't getting to keep enough of the money they made because of onerous tax and regulatory requirements. Except that all that occurred during a period of time when wealth creation among the already well-to-do was at historic highs. What an odd combination that is, the 1% making unprecedented amounts of money yet at the same time pleading poverty.

[Alan Klein]

The point is, people have a choice. Choices have consequences.

And I chose not to listen to Hillary's cackle for 4 years.  You shouldn't complain.  You'd have to listen to it too. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orYcAiFqknU

[Alan Klein]

That's one measurement, of course.

I was listening to an economist on some podcast the other day (sorry, can't remember which one right now) who said that the yearly interest on the federal government debt is currently on the same order of magnitude as military spending, and if things continue as they are now (which they rarely do, of course) those two items will crowd out everything else in the budget in another 20 years or so. That's a little sobering.

It's funny how "conservatives" preach belt-tightening and living within one means while running for office, then do something different when in power. Trump's tax changes were touted to allow entrepreneurs to keep more of their money so that they could invest in the economy and thus create more jobs. (Funny, I thought you guys already did that trickle-down thing under Reagan, why do you need to do it again?)  The implication was that there was something stopping them from doing so previously, that somehow they weren't getting to keep enough of the money they made because of onerous tax and regulatory requirements. Except that all that occurred during a period of time when wealth creation among the already well-to-do was at historic highs. What an odd combination that is, the 1% making unprecedented amounts of money yet at the same time pleading poverty.

Robert, You;re conflating a number of things.  Lowering business tax rates does help the rich.  They own big shares.  But it also helps the rest of the country by increasing business.  So more jobs are created and salaries go up, which helps everyone.  Lower business taxes also means more income for regular investors who own stock, and increasing valuation of that stock for them as well, not just the rich.  Pension plans for teachers and other "regular" people invest in companies, individual stock ownership etc.  Look at where the stock market is. 

Where I do agree with you is that neither Republicans nor Democrats are doing anything about spending.  Politicians of all stripes don;t see a government program they don;t like or can;t support.  If it could buy them votes, well, they're for it.

[Rob C]

How I enjoy empty boxes! Peace!

:-)

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

The point is, people have a choice. Choices have consequences.

And we like our choices and consequences.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

And we like our choices and consequences.

If you say so.

Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2019
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

Note also Figure 3 at the end of the article, which explains some of the disputed assumptions about the motives of the voters in this thread.

And here's the article  that's being referred to:
Study: racism and sexism predict support for Trump much more than economic dissatisfaction
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

[Alan Klein]

If you say so.

Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2019
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

Note also Figure 3 at the end of the article, which explains some of the disputed assumptions about the motives of the voters in this thread.

And here's the article  that's being referred to:
Study: racism and sexism predict support for Trump much more than economic dissatisfaction
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

Bart, you're always knocking America.  Putting it down.  It nevers stops. Why don;t you clean up Netherland's house first where black-faced painted Santa helpers are acceptable before you point fingers at others.  This goes for most of Europe.  America has been through its difficulties of course.  And our problems are not all solved. But we are legions ahead of Europe when it comes to accepting people of different races, cultures, ethnic backgrounds, social status, religion, etc. 
https://travelnoire.com/what-it-means-to-be-black-in-amsterdam
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/12/black-pete-christmas-zwarte-piet-dutch/

Britain has its own problems.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/boris-johnson-urged-to-apologise-for-muslim-women-letterboxes-article

[kers]

Bart, you're always knocking America.  Putting it down.  It nevers stops. Why don;t you clean up Netherland's house first where black-faced painted Santa helpers are acceptable before you point fingers at others.  This goes for most of Europe.  America has been through its difficulties of course.  And our problems are not all solved. But we are legions ahead of Europe when it comes to accepting people of different races, cultures, ethnic backgrounds, social status, religion, etc. 
https://travelnoire.com/what-it-means-to-be-black-in-amsterdam
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/12/black-pete-christmas-zwarte-piet-dutch/
...

The tradition of 'zwarte Piet' has not the same meaning here that 'black face' has for Americans- It has a different background and goes centuries back...
For the vast majority of Dutch people it was not connected to any kind of racism. It had lost its connection to slavery and the character was adopted as part of a fairytale, but of course there was a connection.
By exposing it and giving much publicity to it, we now have to redefine the 'zwarte Piet' and so we do.
'Zwarte Piet' always climbs through chimneys to deliver presents to children, so that is why they are black and now they are played by people with strikes of black in the face instead of totaly black.

Like Bart I am not against Americans at all, but against Trumps behaviour and decisions as a President and before.
When you state that "the US are legions ahead of Europe when it comes to accepting people of different races"  i cannot agree.
We have no Klu Klux Klan, we have no cops that shoot black people in the back - without even a penalty. Europe has always been crowded with very different cultures that have to live together.
Yes there are problems with some nations of Europe that are so Christian they are afraid of moslims entering their country...
It is certainly not optimal, but not worse than the US. Living in Amsterdam I can say we are with a hundred and more nationalities  and we accept all gendertypes.






 

[Alan Klein]

The tradition of 'zwarte Piet' has not the same meaning here that 'black face' has for Americans- It has a different background and goes centuries back...
For the vast majority of Dutch people it was not connected to any kind of racism. It had lost its connection to slavery and the character was adopted as part of a fairytale, but of course there was a connection.
By exposing it and giving much publicity to it, we now have to redefine the 'zwarte Piet' and so we do.
'Zwarte Piet' always climbs through chimneys to deliver presents to children, so that is why they are black and now they are played by people with strikes of black in the face instead of totaly black.

Like Bart I am not against Americans at all, but against Trumps behaviour and decisions as a President and before.
When you state that "the US are legions ahead of Europe when it comes to accepting people of different races"  i cannot agree.
We have no Klu Klux Klan, we have no cops that shoot black people in the back - without even a penalty. Europe has always been crowded with very different cultures that have to live together.
Yes there are problems with some nations of Europe that are so Christian they are afraid of moslims entering their country...
It is certainly not optimal, but not worse than the US. Living in Amsterdam I can say we are with a hundred and more nationalities  and we accept all gendertypes.






 

You're in denial for what happens in the Netherlands.  From the article you referenced:  MAybe you  missed it so I underlined a few words.  The point is you should clean up your own house before complaining about America.  Throwing comments like someone got shot in the back in a country of 330 million people does not mean the country is racist.  Like most of the liberal press you read about my country, it accuses everyone of racism to politically divide America for their purposes of getting votes.  Sure there are people who are racist and others who are dangerously to the right, just like in your country.  But that is such a tiny minority.  It's not our country.  After all we elected a black man twice.  I wonder how long it will take for the Dutch to elect a Muslim PM? Despite 9-11, Muslims are more integrated here than in Europe and have attained higher political and economic position here than there.  As an immigrant nation, Amerian is used to people of different color, backgrounds, and heritage.  In Europe, if your family wasn't born in the country, and have the same color and religion, you;re looked down on.  You can't move up socially.  That's not America.  Anyone can make it here. You just don;t know what you;re talking about when you talk about America.   

"This notorious Christmas character is dividing a country
Neo-Nazis in the Netherlands have responded violently to calls to get rid of Santa's blackface holiday assistant."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/12/black-pete-christmas-zwarte-piet-dutch/

[Robert Roaldi]

Bart, you're always knocking America.  Putting it down.  It nevers stops. Why don;t you clean up Netherland's house first where black-faced painted Santa helpers are acceptable before you point fingers at others.  This goes for most of Europe.  America has been through its difficulties of course.  And our problems are not all solved. But we are legions ahead of Europe when it comes to accepting people of different races, cultures, ethnic backgrounds, social status, religion, etc. 
https://travelnoire.com/what-it-means-to-be-black-in-amsterdam
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/12/black-pete-christmas-zwarte-piet-dutch/

Britain has its own problems.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/boris-johnson-urged-to-apologise-for-muslim-women-letterboxes-article

Why do you deliberately confuse criticism of Trump with criticism of America?

[Robert Roaldi]

Robert, You;re conflating a number of things.  Lowering business tax rates does help the rich.  They own big shares.  But it also helps the rest of the country by increasing business.  So more jobs are created and salaries go up, which helps everyone.  Lower business taxes also means more income for regular investors who own stock, and increasing valuation of that stock for them as well, not just the rich.  Pension plans for teachers and other "regular" people invest in companies, individual stock ownership etc.  Look at where the stock market is. 

Where I do agree with you is that neither Republicans nor Democrats are doing anything about spending.  Politicians of all stripes don;t see a government program they don;t like or can;t support.  If it could buy them votes, well, they're for it.

Middle-class income has been stagnant for a generation. No rhetoric is going to change that.

[Alan Klein]

There are approximately 58 black senators and representatives in Congress roughly 10% of the 535 total.  Blacks make up 14% of the total US population.  The last president was black and served and was elected twice.  Where's the racism?   

[Alan Klein]

Middle-class income has been stagnant for a generation. No rhetoric is going to change that.

That's true but not Trump's fault.  I believe going off the gold standard which causes inflation, higher taxes, deficit spending, has hurt.  Loss of jobs overseas has also hurt.  We've gone from the biggest creditor nation to the biggest debtor nation in the world.  Look what's happen to our photo industry due to digital, loss of film,  etc.  I'm sure there are people here who could tell us how they lost their career or have taken huge hits in salaries and gigs.  When I go to my photo club, the other members ask me where I buy film; where I get it developed.  It used to be on the corner.  Now I have to ship it to California or NYC.    America has a lot of competitors today that are driving down wages and our wealth.  I really don't know the answer except we're going to have to get use to having less in the future.    I'm retired.  A senior. A boomer.  So it's going to be our youth who have to figure it out and deal with the consequences.  Their parents have been greedy,  demanding stuff from the government beyond our means to pay for it.  There is no free lunch.  Your kids and mine are going to suffer.

[Alan Klein]

Of course Robert, you're Canadian so things are better up there.  But you're not immuned.   Canada depends a lot on America.  If we get a cold, you sneeze, as does most of the world.

[James Clark]

There are approximately 58 black senators and representatives in Congress roughly 10% of the 535 total.  Blacks make up 14% of the total US population.  The last president was black and served and was elected twice.  Where's the racism?

How many of those have an (R) by their name?

[Alan Klein]

How many of those have an (R) by their name?

Very few.  What's your point?

[James Clark]

Very few.  What's your point?

Don't you find the discrepancy curious?

[Alan Klein]

Don't you find the discrepancy curious?

No.  What's your point?

[Alan Klein]

Don't go there.   You're better than that.