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Author Topic: P1 teaser  (Read 1780 times)

BernardLanguillier

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P1 teaser
« on: September 05, 2019, 09:16:55 pm »

https://photorumors.com/2019/09/05/phase-one-has-a-new-teaser-seek-extraordinary/#more-113494

Is mirrorless going to become cool for P1 in 4 days? ;)

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Bernard

Ray Harrison

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2019, 10:40:29 pm »

There were actually full images of the camera briefly over on getdpi before Phase asked them to take them down.  The images were from the phase one site and it looks to be a tech-style camera with some nice curves called the XT.
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Paul2660

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2019, 11:35:26 pm »

Design Similar to A series. Camera seems to be Cambo designed not ALPA.

Possibly a Rodenstock e shutter mounted to lens to be used along with backs e shutter.

Seems to use tech style lenses, no EVF. And if IQ4 used currently no way to use iPhone for additional viewing platform like on the A series as no adhoc WiFi.

Paul C



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Paul Caldwell
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2019, 12:20:06 am »

OK, not that interesting then.

The existing tech cameras were already excellent with static subjects.

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Bernard

Doug Peterson

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2019, 12:44:32 am »

Looking forward to sharing lots of info, and having some in-depth discussions, when the timer hits zero and NDAs are lifted :).

Personally I’m very exited.  :)

mgolub2

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2019, 04:09:23 am »

Potentially people are being mislead by the teaser videos that show what looks to be a rodenstock lens, and it’s a body like the 907x that will support many lens modules.

In theory you might even be able to add contrast based AF with a firmware update, the FPGAs that power these backs could probably do that fairly effectively if they have enough LUTs still available for use.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2019, 05:55:55 am »

Potentially people are being mislead by the teaser videos

Good teasers invoke more questions than they answer.  ;D

Paul2660

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2019, 10:28:24 am »

Gave this more thought over the night, and if:

Phase 1 has come up with a solution that allows a use of their existing Schneider BL lenses, (since they all have leaf shutters), along with a specific special mounted Rodenstock lens, I will be impressed.  This would require some form of a smart mount that can control the leaf shutter in the lens.  However this would give Phase something similar to the idea behind the 907x, the use of existing leaf shutter lenses, in a new and small mount, with movements built in.  The big downside would be anyone with existing tech lenses would have to have them sent to Phase 1 to have the mount adapted to this new camera.   This along with a wifi adhoc solution with a new version of Capture Pilot that can address the system would be very impressive.

If however this is just a new A series, limited only to a specifically mounted Rodenstock set of lenses, I think it will have a limited range of interest, anything is possible.

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2019, 07:21:23 pm »

We’ve had excellent tech cameras.

The key new thing with this one is that the money goes in P1’s pocket. And I am sure with some valuable technical incentives.

Besides probably killing Alpa and Arca, this confirms that P1 sees its future in tech and not in bulky old fashioned SLR bodies, which does make sense to me.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 07:28:06 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Waker

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2019, 09:26:53 pm »

The other big downside would be that the Phase lenses wider than 80mm are compromised designs to take into account the long throw needed to clear the XF/DF mirror box. That's a big distance, meaning they are strongly retrofocal Distagon formula rather than Biogon. This is one of the prime reasons why a tech lens on a tech body, not designed to accommodate a mirror box is nearly always superior to DSLR lenses, for anything below 'standard' focal lengths.

Oh and then there's the image circle issue.
which makes me think it needs be tech lenses.

But we'll see soon enough.


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Paul2660

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2019, 09:54:38 pm »

Tech lenses at least the Rodenstock wides are all retrofocus designed. And they have plenty of distortion. Elongation and flattening towards the edge of frame.  Schneider’s tech lenses were symmetrical and has much less of this.

At least in the 32 and 40

I agree the mirror box would require a spacer but no different than what Nikon or Canon did with their lenses on their mirrorless.

I doubt it’s anything more than a updated A series.

Paul C 
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Paul Caldwell
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JoeKitchen

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2019, 11:20:56 pm »

We’ve had excellent tech cameras.

The key new thing with this one is that the money goes in P1’s pocket. And I am sure with some valuable technical incentives.

Besides probably killing Alpa and Arca, this confirms that P1 sees its future in tech and not in bulky old fashioned SLR bodies, which does make sense to me.

Cheers,
Bernard

Well, let's all hope this is not the case. 

Actually I think the mirrorless Sonys are helping Arca and Cambo, with their bellows camera designed for these bodies, immensely.  I know a lot of professionals new to the game, and some experienced, using this set up for table top and architecture. 

If I was just starting out, it would be a serious consideration for me, at least for the 4 or 5 years it would take to building up enough work/capital to justify a MF system. 

Anyway, if what P1 releases is a true mirrorless system like the Sonys, I would be very interested.  If it is like the A system, a big yawn. 
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Joe Kitchen
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2019, 07:26:49 pm »

Arca and cambo have indeed be a lot less dependent on high end backs.

Cheers,
Bernard

Doug Peterson

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2019, 04:38:05 am »

Hope everyone is ready. Only a few hours now :).

BernardLanguillier

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2019, 05:25:57 am »

Hope everyone is ready. Only a few hours now :).

The purchase of my lambo is on hold! ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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Phase One XT vs A-Series: can anyone provide a detailed list of differences?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2019, 10:11:36 pm »

Can someone (Doug? Steve?) describe the differences from Phase One's previous tech. camera solution, the A-Series, to the new XT? Will they co-exist or is the A-series done now?
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One XT vs A-Series: can anyone provide a detailed list of differences?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2019, 10:42:33 pm »

Can someone (Doug? Steve?) describe the differences from Phase One's previous tech. camera solution, the A-Series, to the new XT? Will they co-exist or is the A-series done now?


The Phase One A Series was a bundled kit with choice of 3 lenses (23HR/35HR/70HR) centered around the Alpa 12 TC Camera, a Phase One IQ digital back, and many accessory items. There were some cosmetic modifications to some materials, and the bundle pricing was generally a bit lower than what you would pay for the items purchase separately from Phase One/Alpa. The only differentiating feature was embedded LCC files in the A series digital backs.

IME, I found I could produce a more effective LCC than the LCC that was embedded in the back.

I would say with the launch of the XT, the A Series is finalized as a purchasable option through Phase One. Indeed, it is no longer on the price list. This does not mean the individual components in their native forms are not still available for purchase (they are).

It is my hope that Alpa and Phase One find their own special sauce, as Cambo and Phase One have done so with the XT. We shall see.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One XT vs A-Series: can anyone provide a detailed list of differences?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 10:51:37 am »

Can someone (Doug? Steve?) describe the differences from Phase One's previous tech. camera solution, the A-Series, to the new XT? Will they co-exist or is the A-series done now?

The A-Series was a product that was 99% marketing and 1% technical; it had exactly one technical feature, which was integrated LCCs, but since the A-Series didn't have any X or Y movement that was of limited value.

In contrast, the XT has many serious and significant workflow features (encoded movements for automatic lens correction, integrated metadata for aperture/shutter/lens, integrated shutter release, native bracketing, native timelapse) as well as a new X-Shutter system (500,000 shot durability, no separate cable or battery required, full control from back or software, flash sync at 1/1000) as well as being a new tech camera body with its own blend of mechanical design with a high priority on weight and size while maintaining symmetrical/simultaneous XY movements and a rotateable dovetail that is tied witht he Arca Swiss Rotamount for the the best horizontal-to-vertical method I've seen on any camera.

The A-Series is now dead. I would bet very strongly against Phase One working with Alpa on any further proprietary projects.

Most of what makes the XT the XT is the IQ4 brains, the electronics, shutter, firmware, and software, all of which are made by Phase One. Their partner moving forward, for the purposes of all mechanical elements of the XT platform is Cambo. That makes sense to me, since Cambo owns their own (rather large and fancy) manufacturing facilities and does a lot of OEM manufacturing for precision applications.

P.S. We still have an A-series on the shelf if anyone wants it. We'll be very flexible on pricing. Email us.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 10:56:31 am by Doug Peterson »
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One XT vs A-Series: can anyone provide a detailed list of differences?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 11:17:02 am »



The A-Series is now dead. I would bet very strongly against Phase One working with Alpa on any further proprietary projects.




Relationships between a medium format digital back manufacturer like Phase One, and technical camera manufacturers like Cambo, Arca Swiss, Alpa, etc, are very important to each and to the medium format segment of our industry.

Alpa and Phase One will certainly continue to work together, it's in their best interest to do so. In fact, I know that they are in contact as we speak. We look forward to seeing future collaboration between them (that surpasses the A Series) and feel confident we will see this.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: P1 teaser
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 08:52:00 pm »

It would appear that the opinion on this matter is strongly impacted by what tech camera brand is distributed by each of you guys. ;)

Doug sells Arca and predicts a bright future for the Arca-P1 relationship...
Steve sells Alpa and predicts a bright future for the Alpa-P1 relationship...

The reality is probably that the only real winner here is Cambo.

Arca will most definitely survive thanks to their heads and wide range of products for non backs. As far as Alpa goes, they have been trying to diversify recently, probably knowing what was coming from P1, but...

Cheers,
Bernard
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