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Author Topic: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?  (Read 1349 times)

armand

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2019, 10:14:48 pm »

This would be the best way to decide.

Quote
The difference between the apsc and m43 is negligible in real world use in my opinion. 

Not really, we are talking of the 16MP m43 and the 24MP APS-C, there is a clear difference, at least for me, and I have both. Used both in the setting that the OP plans to, hiking.

chbla

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2019, 07:57:10 am »

I have to admit this is a very tough choice for me.

Currently, I like the Fuji more, reasons are:

- aspect and resolution, I naturally crop 4:3 images, APS-C is much closer to what I actually use, especially for landscape shots.
  This, combined with a larger resolution is a benefit. I noticed that with 16MP I reach the cropping limitations faster (had a Sony Next before with 16MP).

- very nice manual controls, I love those knobs, never had a digital camera with such manual controls and aperture ring

- lighter (minor reason), it feels more compact, on paper it's 110g less with the above combination

Benefits of the Oly are IBIS, fixed aperture 2.8 and wider lens

What I'm wondering is:

The Oly has IBIS which is said to give 4 stops. The Fuji has OIS on the lens, there is a review here:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/fujinon/xf-18-55mm-f2.8-4-r-lm-ois/image-stabilization-test/

APS-C also allows increasing ISO later than MFT.

I wonder how this difference manifest in practical use? Does anyone have experience with both combinations/features and can maybe share an impression?
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2019, 08:57:10 am »

I personally gravitate to the 4:3 ratio so thatís one reason I lean to m43.  However, I resonate the cropping sentiment at 16mp.  Once in the 20-24mp range...you just have a little cropping flexibility that 16 always felt a little tight with.  That is a sweet spot for a lot of people in terms of printing.  Not everyone actually needs 300dpi prints at 60Ē as much as it sounds like it on the internet. 

In terms of iso for landscape...itís preference.  On the m43 system I recommend not going beyond f/7.1 in general cases.  That is usually plenty.  Similar dof to f/16 roughly.  That means often even f/2.8 - 5.6 have plenty of dof for a lot of landscape shot at wider focal lengths.  Especially of there is nothing in the very near foreground.  This lets you keep the iso lower for longer.  I do all my landscape on a tripod, so I never have to go above iso200 anyways. 

If you do go handheld and need to increase iso, expose to the right as much as possible and bring the exposure down later.  If you turn on highlight warnings,  you can go about one stop of orange warning that is fully recoverable in raw without any blowout.  So once orange appears...about three clicks of shutter speed for example.  The more optimized your data and exposure, the more you can get out of the sensor especially at higher iso.  The shots will be far cleaner. 

Unintended under exposure that needs fixing is the bane on m43.  The biggest thing I see from people that send me shots to see from their m43 cameras that ďarenít deliveringĒ is that exposure was wrong to begin with.  I find this with most cameras though.  Good in good out.
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armand

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2019, 08:58:41 am »

I have the E-M5 ii which should have similar or better stabilization, mostly with the 12-100 though (which had its own stabilization that adds) but enough with the 12-40. The Fuji lens I used with 3 versions cameras.

The Oly might have better stabilization, but I don't think the difference is that much. You can compensate for most via ISO on the Fuji. I see stabilization differently though, if it doesn't give me the vast majority of the shots in focus than I cannot count on it. If for a certain shutter speed one camera gives 50% in focus vs 33% in focus, than I have to take an average of 2 vs 3 shots to get one sharp, a little more time consuming but not that big of a difference.

Oly has nice things but the Fuji requires less work in postprocessing to get it where I want to. For X-T2 in particular, it's just easier to quickly get to the common settings for landscape, still easier than for example a Z7 which I had for 8 months.
Unfortunately you missed the 50% off on the X-T2 with lens.

Choose the one that you feel it's easier to use, you don't want to fight it everyday for some on paper advantage.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 07:29:43 pm by armand »
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armand

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2019, 09:06:15 am »

Quote
Unintended under exposure that needs fixing is the bane on m43.

I think that's why I'm using it less. Dark areas that need lifting remain muddy. The E-M5 has a nice thing that I wish all cameras had, that you can set BOTH underexposure and overexposure warnings, so you can get the best possible file. But I still have to work more to get the colors right if the file needs some postprocessing.
The m43 is more tolerant of overexposure, the Fuji APS-C is much more tolerant of underexposure.

TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2019, 09:19:27 am »


Choose the one that you feels it's easier to use, you don't want to fight it everyday for some on paper advantage.

This is the most appropriate statement in cameras today.  Of course regular use helps make the camera become an extension of your hand and eye...but you can usually tell if a camera works in your hand or not.  There are so many different options today that all do well.  Really well.  That it really does come down to what feels good and meets your core need. 

I would tell people... the right car to own is the one you canít walk away from after parking without turning back to look at it.  With cameras itís the same... Itís the one you want to pick back up immediately after putting it down.  Just be careful not to pick up a Leica.
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2019, 04:34:15 pm »

I guess it is down to what suits you and we are all different.  A friend who has been a life-long good landscape photographer went through this transition some time ago and went m4/3 from full-frame.  He loves the weight and size saving, but admits there is an IQ loss.  He has learnt to put up with it. 

I have a Canon 5D3 and also have Fuji.  I hardly ever use the Canon now.  Have you thought about a second hand Fuji x-t1 or x-t2?  They may be in your price range.  As others have said the 18-55 zoom is a great lens, and for travel I take it and the 55-200.  Both have IS and so I do not take a tripod (which also avoids a divorce).   An X-T2 body and the 2 lenses weigh under 1.5kg (under 3.3lbs) and with spare batteries and polarisers fit in a Think Tank Mirrorless Mover 25i, making, what is to me, a small light package.  My Canon and 24-105 now seem enormous!  I print up to A3+ (13" x 19") and the Fuji images, both colour and B&W, are excellent.  The film simulations available in LR are great. 

In the end it may be a good idea to rent, as others have written, to find what you like.

Best wishes,

Jonathan

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Dan Wells

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2019, 07:29:22 pm »

The only Fuji with in-body image stabilization so far is the (significantly larger and heavier) X-H1. Most of the zoom lenses have quite good in-lens stabilization - but only a couple of primes are stabilized.

Any E-M series Olympus has in-body stabilization, which will stabilize anything - including an old security camera lens (really - you can put them on Micro 4/3 with an adapter). As you go up the line, the in-body stabilization gets better and better, until the version in the E-M II qualifies as uncanny! Some higher-end Olympus lenses have their own stabilizer as well - with an E-M1 II and the right lens, you can shoot at 1/2 second and sometimes longer with no tripod!

On the other hand, the gap between any relatively recent Fuji APS-C sensor and any current Micro 4/3 sensor is considerable, and it runs in the opposite direction from the stabilization advantage. Even the very old Fuji 16MP sensor (really the Nikon D7000 sensor (and everybody bought it from Sony) - used in Fujifilm cameras from 2012 to 2016) will probably outperform any Micro 4/3 sensor, and the 24 and 26 MP sensors just open the gap.

If you don't care about stabilized primes, I like Jonathan's recommendation a lot - I've taken a lot of pictures on some very long hikes with the X-T2 and the little  18-55. I don't know the 55-200 well - the excellent 10-24 is another real consideration for "light Fuji landscape kit with two zooms..."
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chbla

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2019, 02:15:05 am »

I've tested both cameras now, and I took the Fuji X-T20 (18-55).

As mentioned before the 24MP APS-C sensor is better in my opinion. The aspect is more useful to me,
low light performance is clearly better and the 24MP give me a slight advantage (8MP are a considerable difference).

The Fuji felt better as well, I very much like the controls it has. The particular combination is also 120g lighter.
I think I made the right choice.
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armand

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2019, 09:20:00 am »

It's a good lens. For travel I tend to add a bright prime (usually the 35 1.4) but for hiking something wider would be more appropriate. In a trip I used the 10-24 + 18-55 and worked well but if you want to save weight than the 14 2.8 (very good, wider but more expensive) or the new 16 2.8 (cheaper, WR) will do the trick.

chbla

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2019, 09:34:27 am »

The Samyang 12mm/2.0 is quite popular. I ordered it and will give it a try.
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armand

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2019, 02:01:07 pm »

The Samyang 12mm/2.0 is quite popular. I ordered it and will give it a try.

This will do it too, might be able to get more night photography compared to what I mentioned.

Jonathan Cross

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2019, 01:04:08 am »

I have just bought a used Fuji 14mm in very good condition from London Camera Exchange in UK.  I get new kit from them as well. It was about 60% of the new price.  So far seems a good lens. Extra cost was a Hoya Fusion UV filter; I'd rather damage or scratch that than the front element of the lens!
Best wishes,
Jonathan
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scooby70

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2019, 04:49:59 am »

This would be the best way to decide.

Not really, we are talking of the 16MP m43 and the 24MP APS-C, there is a clear difference, at least for me, and I have both. Used both in the setting that the OP plans to, hiking.

Maybe but surely it depends on the final picture and how it's viewed? Screen viewing or prints to A4 of full images to be viewed normally or closely? Heavy or no cropping etc?

I can imagine many uses and viewing circumstances in which there's little real difference between MFT and FF never mind APS-C. In fact I don't have to imagine as I own MFT and FF.
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John Hollenberg

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2019, 11:52:11 am »

If you have difficulty getting your hiking companions to slow down for photography (as I do) having a camera you can carry in your pocket is a good solution.  Two weeks ago I hiked a total of 50 miles (day hikes) in the Mammoth area/Yosemite in 5 days with my brothers.  Had my Sony RX100 IV in my pocket the whole time and got several of my favorite shots using that camera.  After much deliberation I just ordered an APS-C pocket camera--the Ricoh GR III--for the larger sensor and better dynamic range to complement it. For actual photo outings I have Sony A7r2 and Canon 5DSr but for fast hiking those little pocket cameras are great.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2019, 03:14:27 pm »

Extra cost was a Hoya Fusion UV filter; I'd rather damage or scratch that than the front element of the lens!

Cue religious war :-)
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PeterAit

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Re: Lighter Camera/Lens to replace my DSLR at least on longer hikes?
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2019, 09:37:29 am »

Coming late to this, but I whole-heartedly second recs for the Sony RX-10. Not a pocket camera, but much smaller and lighter than a FF DSLR (or even a FF mirrorless). Fixed 24-600 mm equiv lens, 1" sensor, 20MP, excellent IQ, and as a bonus they throw in for free Sony's wacky menus <g>.
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