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Author Topic: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?  (Read 2182 times)

PDeXplore

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So I'm trying to incorporate Smart objects in my LR>PS workflow. Never really used these before. So I started with my base adjustments in LR, then opened as a SO in Photoshop. Did a 'New Smart object via copy' so that I could do some blending with the two layers. Created a layer mask so I had one smart object for the sky, one for the foreground. This worked great as I could easily fine tune different details in ACR targeting only the area of the image I wanted.

So that worked out great. I got my base adjustments done. But now I want to start doing some local fixes, such as cleaning up the image with the spot heal or clone stamp. I can't do that to a smart object. I tried doing some of the spot healing in ACR but that isn't nearly as powerful. I tried flattening the visible layers (ctrl alt shft e). That worked great for allowing me to do my healing, but it also renders my smart objects useless as I have this new layer over top of them.

Surely there's something easy that I'm missing, but I just can't find it. I'd imagine most of my standard edits like dodging and burning will be no trouble at all since they just work on blank layers. It's these edits to the image itself that I can't figure out how to do without rendering the SO useless.
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smahn

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2019, 01:00:17 am »

Create a new blank layer above the smart objects and clone/heal on that setting the tool to "current and below".

If, after cloning, you then make changes to the smart object, then your cloning work may no longer match and will need to be deleted and redone, so try to get your smart objects pretty close to where you want them first. And/or, if, say, you want to darken both the cloning and the smart object together you'd add your adjustment layer above both of them so that they are targeted equally.

File housekeeping and hygiene (ie, proper use of layers (and their ordering in the stack) and folders and their blend modes (ie, pass through vs normal) is very important when you get into compositing multiple images or image treatments.
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Garnick

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2019, 07:28:37 am »

Another approach you might want to consider is grouping of layers, especially handy for composites of numerous images and or intricate dodging/burning necessities.  Actually, anytime you find that your layer count seems to be getting out of control, grouping layers works very well for managing the real estate.  For instance, if you have a lot of text layers you can group all of them and even group within a group to keep them more manageable.  I use this method frequently when working on complicated restoration pieces.  One has to be careful though to keep everything in proper order.  Otherwise if you want to redo a particular edit it might also interfere with an unexpected part of the image as well.  As far as SOs are concerned, I use us them a lot, especially handy for resizing images within a document and maintaining the quality/resolution, let alone the use smart filters etc.  However, to the best of my ability I always try to do the finishing touches (edits) before I commit to the SO. Otherwise, possibly a number of editing layers for each SO, which of course could also be grouped.   

Just a few thoughts, hopefully of interest.     
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Gary N.
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nirpat89

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2019, 08:45:51 am »

We all have our own ways to do things....I always do clean-up and touch-up work on the very first layer, assuming that it is going to be permanent and assuming that the task is not dependent anything that happens on layers above.  So what I would do in your situation is open a regular layer in PS from LR, make a copy (not necessary but to be on the safe side) and do your cloning/rubber-stamping on that layer.  Alternatively add a blank layer and do as smahn suggested.  Once you are satisfied, make a merged copy layer on top and covert that to a smart object and go on from there as usual as you described.

:Niranjan.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 01:08:05 pm by nirpat89 »
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john beardsworth

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2019, 12:46:58 pm »

So that worked out great. I got my base adjustments done. But now I want to start doing some local fixes, such as cleaning up the image with the spot heal or clone stamp. I can't do that to a smart object. I tried doing some of the spot healing in ACR but that isn't nearly as powerful.

It's every bit as powerful as LR! Any spot healing in LR can be done in ACR, so it's simply a case of practice.

If you prefer LR over learning the ACR interface, you can always go back to the original raw file in LR, do those local edits, and then send a new SO to PS. Open the other TIF/PSD document, and shift+drag your new SO layer and drop it into the document. You can then delete the old SO layers.
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PDeXplore

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2019, 12:48:40 pm »

Create a new blank layer above the smart objects and clone/heal on that setting the tool to "current and below".

If, after cloning, you then make changes to the smart object, then your cloning work may no longer match and will need to be deleted and redone, so try to get your smart objects pretty close to where you want them first. And/or, if, say, you want to darken both the cloning and the smart object together you'd add your adjustment layer above both of them so that they are targeted equally.

File housekeeping and hygiene (ie, proper use of layers (and their ordering in the stack) and folders and their blend modes (ie, pass through vs normal) is very important when you get into compositing multiple images or image treatments.

Thanks a ton. And yeah, it's one thing to learn how to do all the techniques in Photoshop, it's another to learn exactly how to do them best. I thought utilizing smart objects would be a good way to have some extra flexibility in being able to edit the raw data as i go, but it does seem like regardless of what i do it's most important to get the raw data right from the beginning. Will have to keep experimenting i guess.
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PDeXplore

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2019, 12:53:00 pm »

It's every bit as powerful as LR! Any spot healing in LR can be done in ACR, so it's simply a case of practice.

If you prefer LR over learning the ACR interface, you can always go back to the original raw file in LR, do those local edits, and then send a new SO to PS. Open the other TIF/PSD document, and shift+drag your new SO layer and drop it into the document. You can then delete the old SO layers.

Sorry, i meant the spot healing isn't as powerful as Photoshop. I noticed ACR and LR were indeed pretty much the same thing.

That's a great tip though about resending the SO to Photoshop, that's great to know. Hopefully kind of keeps improving the flow between these two programs. I love having both at my disposal but it seems very clunky at the moment.

Semi unrelated question, but if you're working on a PS file and need to shut down your computer and finish later, do you just save as a .psd and then later on save as tiff and import to Photoshop? Or send it back to Lightroom and then open back in Photoshop through there? I always end up just putting my computer to sleep since I'm not clear on how to handle/save the files.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 01:19:08 pm »

If you need to do cloning-type operations that are greater than LR/ACR, eg content aware fill, then PS gives you many ways to work.

My preference is not to use merge visible as it's the whole layer. Instead I'll use the marquee/lasso etc to roughly select the area where I need to clone, maybe feather the edges with Selection > Modify > Feather, use Ctrl or Cmd J to copy the selection into its own layer, and then I'll do the cloning on this smaller layer. I'll do this for each area that I want to do something on, and in the latest version of PS you'll see the new Edit > Content Aware Fill command does the same thing, putting its output into its own layer. So it's easy to redo or scrap each individual bit of work.

If you re-edit the SO, there is a big problem if you've done cloning on a full layer created by Merge Visible. With these individual layers, you often have less of a problem. Some might need redoing, others not. But you minimise this by getting the original SO right first time, and experience helps here.

I'm not sure about your follow-up. I'd just send the file from LR as a tif, save it,  then later in LR I'd do Edit > Send to PS and choose Original.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 01:22:20 pm by john beardsworth »
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PDeXplore

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 03:54:01 pm »

I really like the previous commenters suggestion of using a blank layer to do the healing. I'm going to start doing this now regardless of smart object or not. Seems like a non-destructive work flow. If i need to fix or undo later, can just erase or mask that layer.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2019, 02:52:40 am »

Yes, and he made good comments about "housekeeping and hygiene". The layer groups feature helps organise layers, and also the layers palette has a panel option "Layer Bounds" which makes the layer thumbnails easier to view.
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Peano

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Re: Smart object workflow? How to do local edits such as spot healing?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2019, 12:48:38 pm »

Create a new blank layer above the smart objects and clone/heal on that setting the tool to "current and below".

+1
Avoid cloning, healing, etc. on rasterized pixel layers. Work on a blank layer so you can easily make revisions.
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