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Author Topic: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science  (Read 48060 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #620 on: August 25, 2019, 11:52:10 pm »

Venezuela, here we come!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sanders-climate-plan-federal-takeover-energy

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In addition to taking over the nation's energy supply, Sanders' plan claims to end unemployment by creating 20 million jobs, provide "massive investments in research and development" and impose fines and litigation on the fossil fuel industry.

Alan Klein

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #621 on: August 26, 2019, 12:00:30 am »

Taking over energy is just the beginning of the takeover of the entire economy.  That's what socialism is.  That's who Sanders is and his Democratic opponents for president are moving in his direction of Government control of industry.  When people lose their economic freedom, they lose their personal and political freedoms as well.  Object, and you go to jail.   Politicians decide how we should live, what medical care we get and when, what fuels we can use and vehicles we can drive, and then we have nothing to say about it.  We are serfs of the state. 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #622 on: August 26, 2019, 01:55:19 am »

Taking over energy is just the beginning of the takeover of the entire economy.  That's what socialism is.  That's who Sanders is and his Democratic opponents for president are moving in his direction of Government control of industry.  When people lose their economic freedom, they lose their personal and political freedoms as well.  Object, and you go to jail.   Politicians decide how we should live, what medical care we get and when, what fuels we can use and vehicles we can drive, and then we have nothing to say about it.  We are serfs of the state.

Really, if you are interested in democracy, how about starting to act on the situation you are in today instead of fantasying about how worse things could become some day in a totalitarian socialist state? ;)

In short, a country where corruption is legal through the mechanism authorizing lobbies to fund candidates. A unique feature in any democratic country on earth.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #623 on: August 26, 2019, 04:40:59 am »

To relieve some stress, it’s useful to note NASA analysis concludes Amazonian fires are at about the 15 year average. It doesn’t make it good, but it’s context the media seems to be failing to provide. Why? is a reasonable question.

Why a 15 year average? Ah, I see, because that would include some years with excessive burning, and that would make the current crisis look less of an issue in comparison. That is using statistics to downplay a crisis. How transparent, and how befitting of this thread's topic of spreading some more misinformation.

http://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#totals

As the above link shows, in the last 10 years (with the exception of 2010) there has been a decrease in the number of fires and these often started later in the year. The Amazon is becoming increasingly drier (https://phys.org/news/2018-04-scientists-drier-amazon-wetter-indonesia.html), which increases the likelihood of larger areas being affected by each fire. The new government of Bolsonaro has changed the policy of protection of the rainforest into a policy of exploitation of the area for agriculture and animal farming (farmers are an important part of its electorate), and as a result, the number of convictions for illegal burning has decreased significantly this year. Although it was still illegal, the lack of enforcement resulted in a free license being given.

The year has got off to a bad start and the issue needs to be tackled immediately, not after it is too late.
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jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #624 on: August 26, 2019, 04:59:06 am »

To relieve some stress, it’s useful to note NASA analysis concludes Amazonian fires are at about the 15 year average. It doesn’t make it good, but it’s context the media seems to be failing to provide. Why? is a reasonable question.

As usual, the topic is more complex than a Coffee Corner discussion suggests. This is an interesting article:

https://www.science20.com/robert_walker/nasa_say_the_amazon_is_burning_at_below_average_rates_yet_many_news_stories_say_record_rates-240959
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LesPalenik

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #625 on: August 26, 2019, 05:02:48 am »

To relieve some stress, it’s useful to note NASA analysis concludes Amazonian fires are at about the 15 year average. It doesn’t make it good, but it’s context the media seems to be failing to provide. Why? is a reasonable question.

Something doesn't add up. NYT reports:

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There are 80 percent more fires this year than there were last summer, according to the Brazilian government. This surge in burning has accompanied a spike in deforestation in general. More than 1,330 square miles of the Amazon rainforest have been lost since January, a 39 percent increase over the same period last year, according to The New York Times.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/amazon-fires-are-political/596776/
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Alan Klein

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #626 on: August 26, 2019, 09:07:02 am »

Don't Amazon areas lost to fire grow back eventually?  Forests burn in the USA too.  Part of the natural cycle (I realize that farmers burning land in Brazil is different.)  But the land will grow back. 


The Amazon is over 2 million square miles.  The NY Times article reported in the above post that 1330 square miles were "lost".  While that's a 39% increase over last year, it's still only about 65/100ths of one per cent of the total Amazon. (0.065%).  In any case, "the whole Amazon" isn't on fire.  That's fake news, yellow journalism, exaggeration, and why there are so many sceptics today about what's published in media about this or anything regarding the environment.  It's obvious that many people have an agenda and will distort facts to support their agenda.

jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #627 on: August 26, 2019, 10:14:08 am »

Don't Amazon areas lost to fire grow back eventually?  Forests burn in the USA too.  Part of the natural cycle (I realize that farmers burning land in Brazil is different.)  But the land will grow back. 


The Amazon is over 2 million square miles.  The NY Times article reported in the above post that 1330 square miles were "lost".  While that's a 39% increase over last year, it's still only about 65/100ths of one per cent of the total Amazon. (0.065%).  In any case, "the whole Amazon" isn't on fire.  That's fake news, yellow journalism, exaggeration, and why there are so many sceptics today about what's published in media about this or anything regarding the environment.  It's obvious that many people have an agenda and will distort facts to support their agenda.

And, indeed, something that nobody has said.  Careful with matches, Alan - all that dry straw about!!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #628 on: August 26, 2019, 10:31:33 am »

Something doesn't add up. NYT reports:

Indeed, Les, something doesn’t add up. For instance, looking at 15 years of statistics vs. just the last year. Who would have thought these two would be different!?  ;)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #629 on: August 26, 2019, 10:39:25 am »

Why a 15 year average? Ah, I see, because that would include some years with excessive burning, and that would make the current crisis look less of an issue in comparison. That is using statistics to downplay a crisis...

... As the above link shows, in the last 10 years (with the exception of 2010) there has been a decrease in the number of fires and these often started later in the year....

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes, it was 15 smiles, one for each year of your “logic.” Who would have thought that a longer statistical period would yield more accurate results than shorter, cherry-picked one!? By all means, let’s exclude years with excessive burning so that the current one looks hugely excessive, even if it is only average.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #630 on: August 26, 2019, 10:44:47 am »

And, indeed, something that nobody has said.

Except. Every. Single. News. Headline.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #631 on: August 26, 2019, 10:46:47 am »

Don't Amazon areas lost to fire grow back eventually?

Some of it, not necessarily with the same vegetation, and animal life doesn't grow back. The CO2 that was produced by the burning will stay in the atmosphere for decades and contributes to Global Warming (which contributes to a dryer Amazon, according to climate studies).

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #632 on: August 26, 2019, 10:47:58 am »

In short, a country where corruption is legal through the mechanism authorizing lobbies to fund candidates...

Fake news.

RSL

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #633 on: August 26, 2019, 10:50:41 am »

Some of it, not necessarily with the same vegetation, and animal life doesn't grow back. The CO2 that was produced by the burning will stay in the atmosphere for decades and contributes to Global Warming (which contributes to a dryer Amazon, according to climate studies).

There are those "studies" again. Which "studies," Bart? Whose "studies?" What makes you think these "studies" are more reliable than "studies" that "prove" the opposite? Why don't you show us a chart?
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jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #634 on: August 26, 2019, 10:57:09 am »

Except. Every. Single. News. Headline.

Which one of those says "the whole Amazon is on fire" (which was Alan's claim) ??
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jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #635 on: August 26, 2019, 10:58:20 am »

There are those "studies" again. Which "studies," Bart? Whose "studies?" What makes you think these "studies" are more reliable than "studies" that "prove" the opposite? Why don't you show us a chart?

Russ - what did your comment add to the discussion? 
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RSL

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #636 on: August 26, 2019, 11:03:20 am »

You call head-rattling a "discussion?"
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #637 on: August 26, 2019, 11:07:04 am »

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes, it was 15 smiles, one for each year of your “logic.” Who would have thought that a longer statistical period would yield more accurate results than shorter, cherry-picked one!? By all means, let’s exclude years with excessive burning so that the current one looks hugely excessive, even if it is only average.

You 'should have' known that a 15-year unweighted average lags behind recent changes in activities, and is slow to adapt to recent changes in trends. So the record years 2004, 2005, and 2007 still lift the long term average above that of recent years (which are more relevant for a comparison with the current situation). Recent (lack of) activities by the Brasilian government contributed to the recent changes, until international pressure on Bolsonaro started building up.

And the fire season in Bolivia and Brasil is not over yet.
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jeremyrh

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #638 on: August 26, 2019, 11:07:21 am »

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes, it was 15 smiles, one for each year of your “logic.” Who would have thought that a longer statistical period would yield more accurate results than shorter, cherry-picked one!? By all means, let’s exclude years with excessive burning so that the current one looks hugely excessive, even if it is only average.

This point has already been addressed in the article I linked to. Here is a link to NASA's own updated report:

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145498/uptick-in-amazon-fire-activity-in-2019

With the fire season in the Amazon approaching its midpoint, scientists using NASA satellites to track fire activity have confirmed an increase in the number and intensity of fires in the Brazilian Amazon in 2019, making it the most active fire year in that region since 2010.

Fire activity in the Amazon varies considerably from year-to-year and month-to-month, driven by changes in economic conditions and climate. August 2019 stands out because it has brought a noticeable increase in large, intense, and persistent fires burning along major roads in the central Brazilian Amazon, explained Douglas Morton, chief of the Biospheric Sciences Laboratory at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center. While drought has played a large role in exacerbating fires in the past, the timing and location of fire detections early in the 2019 dry season are more consistent with land clearing than with regional drought.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science
« Reply #639 on: August 26, 2019, 11:17:22 am »

Jeremy, typing on IPad, and my finger gets tired from posting too many ROTFL smileys, so consider from now on that your every post gets 15 of them 😉 (ok, found the strength for this single one). The same, of course, applies to Bernard and Bart, so you don’t feel picked on, or, God forbid, discriminated.
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