How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science

[LesPalenik]

You jumping of the deep end aside (a rhetorical joke)...

... when you stop flying, driving gasoline cars, eating meat and using anything derived from fossil fuels (your Nikon has a lot of plastic)... then we can talk.

I don't think we have to give up all those things entirely. Just try to reduce them, avoid waste and try some alternatives.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I don't think we have to give up all those things entirely. Just try to reduce them, avoid waste and try some alternatives.

Yes, but that is not the call we are hearing from the alarmists.

[BernardLanguillier]

You jumping of the deep end aside (a rhetorical joke)...

... when you stop flying, driving gasoline cars, eating meat and using anything derived from fossil fuels (your Nikon has a lot of plastic)... then we can talk.

In fact the only one thing you need to do is to recognize the situation objectively and tell your congressman that the US needs to act on global warming.

I don’t have anything to do on that front, the two countries I relate to are already aggressively acting in the right direction.

Is there a need to change individual habits also? Yes, to some extend. I drive no more than 6,000km a year in a pretty fuel efficient car at an average speed of less than 60 kph and always on highways. Most of my lights at home are efficient leds, the riskier ones on automatic presence detetors, my home is at the most stringent env spec I could afford,... although I have an Asia responsability at work I fly very little and try to manage by skype calls,... but I still eat meat, although not in very large amounts,... but due to health concerns and not environmental ones. I consume more stuff than I should,...

Visit some of the most eco minded countries on earth such as Sweden where I have just spent a week... I don’t have the feeling that those guys live a poor life as a result of their environment awareness!

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

No - the basic scientific situation is clear. There is no value in discussing it here, since neither you nor I have the knowledge or expertise to do so. It is however interesting to discuss what is the reason that deniers are given so much coverage.

Because they smell a rat.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... tell your congressman that the US needs to act on global warming...

Tell him exactly what? Short of lets kill our way of life? What exactly are you suggesting we should do? "Act on global warming" is a totally empty slogan. If I told you I am hungry, and your "remedial solution" is "well, you should eat something" is completely correct, yet utterly useless.

[BernardLanguillier]

Tell him exactly what? Short of lets kill our way of life? What exactly are you suggesting we should do? "Act on global warming" is a totally empty slogan. If I told you I am hungry, and your "remedial solution" is "well, you should eat something" is completely correct, yet utterly useless.

Fair question.

The first answer is to get back in the Paris treaty that encourages countries to take various measures. Most of them address corporate behavior more than individual one.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

No, the need to realize that a country and serfdom are the 2 sides of the same coin. You can’t get one without the other.

Now, those realistic about their condition are able to describe it with a word less negatively charged than serfdom, such as citizenship?

Cheers,
Bernard

Loss of freedom is not citizenship.  It's serfdom.  I think you've been in the East too long and have forgotten that.

[Alan Klein]

Fair question.

The first answer is to get back in the Paris treaty that contains a large variety of measures. Most of them address corporate behavior more than individual one.

Cheers,
Bernard

Paris does not impose rules on corporations, but rather on countries. 

[BernardLanguillier]

Paris does not impose rules on corporations, but rather on countries.

Yes, but counties then typically impose rules on corporations.

Just look at what California does, they are ahead of the curve.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

Loss of freedom is not citizenship.  It's serfdom.  I think you've been in the East too long and have forgotten that.

Any way you look at it, it obviously is. Being a citizen in any country on earth is giving up on most of your freedom for the sake of the good of the community.

And the US is probably one of the counties with the most complex set of rules.

One of the counties also where the highest amount of money is taken away from its citizens to fund weapon purchase in order to ensure the continuation of its very existence. If that is not freedom depriving what is?

Cheers,
Bernard

[LesPalenik]

Loss of freedom is not citizenship.  It's serfdom.  I think you've been in the East too long and have forgotten that.

How true. For example, where I live I can't make a bond fire in my backyard and I can't keep any goats. Not even a deer, but that's because of other ministry.

[Alan Klein]

Yes, but counties then typically impose rules on corporations.

Just look at what California does, they are ahead of the curve.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rules would be applied to individuals as well.  When the government gives a rebate to an individual to install solar, the rest of us taxpayers are individually paying for that rebate.   Even corporate rules affect people.  If a carbon tax is added to something being built by a corporation, those additional costs are passed on to individual consumers.  So everyone is affected. 

In any case, Paris treaty was not approved by the US Senate.  So it's in invalid treaty as far as America is concerned.  The American People never approved it and did not want it.   

[Alan Klein]

How true. For example, where I live I can't make a bond fire in my backyard and I can't keep any goats. Not even a deer, but that's because of other ministry.

I keep showing the US Constitution to my wife.  But she's not buying it.

[BernardLanguillier]

Rules would be applied to individuals as well.  When the government gives a rebate to an individual to install solar, the rest of us taxpayers are individually paying for that rebate.   Even corporate rules affect people.  If a carbon tax is added to something being built by a corporation, those additional costs are passed on to individual consumers.  So everyone is affected. 

You are correct, but I have never claimed that there would be zero impact on individuals.

But these mechanisms you describe don’t have a major impact on the way of life of people, do they?
D

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

Any way you look at it, it obviously is. Being a citizen in any country on earth is giving up on most of your freedom for the sake of the good of the community.

And the US is probably one of the counties with the most complex set of rules.

One of the counties also where the highest amount of money is taken away from its citizens to fund weapon purchase in order to ensure the continuation of its very existence. If that is not freedom depriving what is?

Cheers,
Bernard

Giving up too much freedom is not beneficial to the community.  It just empowers the government and the people who run it to run roughshod over individuals and our freedoms.  You really need to get back to The Netherlands.  I think you've forgotten your roots. 

[BernardLanguillier]

Giving up too much freedom is not beneficial to the community.  It just empowers the government and the people who run it to run roughshod over individuals and our freedoms.  You really need to get back to The Netherlands.  I think you've forgotten your roots.

I am not Dutch.

And you are showing a poor understanding of the way most Europeans perceive the benefits of collective action... and are being a bit naive/dishonest about the actual state of affairs in your own country... 

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

You are correct, but I have never claimed that there would be zero impact on individuals.

But these mechanisms you describe don’t have a major impact on the way of life of people, do they?
D

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes they do.   Over half my income goes to taxes,  Federal, State, Locals, Property taxes, sales taxes, etc.  That has a major impact on the way people can live.  Both spouses have to work, or need second jobs, etc.  So adding carbon taxes for example will make it even harder to live.  Look at Germans who pay 2 1/2 times what I pay for electricity because of their renewable legislation. 

[Alan Klein]

I am not Dutch.

And you are showing a poor understanding of the way most Europeans perceive the benefits of collective action... and are being a bit naive/dishonest about the actual state of affairs in your own country... 

Cheers,
Bernard

Sorry about the mistake regarding your nationality.  But Europe has had more of a socialist environment than America, although we're getting there pretty quickly too.  America has plenty of collective activity, too much in my opinion.  But Americans in general still treasure personal freedoms. 

[BernardLanguillier]

Yes they do.   Over half my income goes to taxes,  Federal, State, Locals, Property taxes, sales taxes, etc.  That has a major impact on the way people can live.  Both spouses have to work, or need second jobs, etc.  So adding carbon taxes for example will make it even harder to live.  Look at Germans who pay 2 1/2 times what I pay for electricity because of their renewable legislation.

Ok, at least we now agree about the very high degree of constraint that being a citizen already imposes on you regardless of environmental aspects.

The solution seems easy. Redirect some of that to environmental protection instead of defense spendings?

Even Trump wanted to kill the F35 program... what has happened to that? Or what it just negotiation talk with Locheed Martin?

Cheers,
Bernard

[faberryman]

Over half my income goes to taxes,  Federal, State, Locals, Property taxes, sales taxes, etc.

And yet you choose to live in a high tax state like New Jersey.