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Author Topic: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?  (Read 4251 times)

Waker

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Re: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2019, 07:32:02 pm »

There's a great deal of UV mythology out there in conservation framing land, IMHO. It may sound like heresy, but I don't even worry about UV blocking properties of the glazing nor do I believe thin top coatings on the print itself add any significant UV protection (although they may have other benefits).
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

Agreed. There's also a lot of 'upselling' of UV block glazing, which is mostly completely unnecessary.

AR glass is very worthwhile, but AR UV block at 50% extra $ is a waste of $.

The framers and glass manufacturers would like you to believe otherwise, but AR glass cuts 75+% of the UV anyways, so it's really not worth paying much more for 90+% cut.

 
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Waker

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Re: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2019, 10:57:51 am »

now almost all of my work is on the Entrada Natural 300gsm.
cheers,
Mark

Thanks for sharing all your process, Mark. Good to know about the ability to contact-glaze Matte inkjet prints.
I discounted that from years back and RC Pigment & 'C-Prints', but it sounds like it's back on the table now.

From Ernst Dinkla's endlessly useful Spectrum-Viz, it looks like your Moab Entrada Natural 300gsm is the same as:
Epson Legacy Fibre Rag 314 and
Felix Schoeller True Rag Smooth Matt 305, and
Canson Rag Photographique 310

(Schoeller likely being the actual manufacturer of all these),

Other than the DS availability of MOAB, (not in rolls, which I use) they seem interchangeable, and the Epson is much better value right now with the rebate offer.  Any thoughts, or am I missing something?
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datro

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Re: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2019, 11:50:41 am »

From Ernst Dinkla's endlessly useful Spectrum-Viz, it looks like your Moab Entrada Natural 300gsm is the same as:
Epson Legacy Fibre Rag 314 and
Felix Schoeller True Rag Smooth Matt 305, and
Canson Rag Photographique 310

(Schoeller likely being the actual manufacturer of all these),

Other than the DS availability of MOAB, (not in rolls, which I use) they seem interchangeable, and the Epson is much better value right now with the rebate offer.  Any thoughts, or am I missing something?

To my eyes, Moab Entrada Natural and Canson Rag Photographique are NOT at all alike.  The Canson paper is whiter, due in part I'm sure to the "mineral content" that Canson adds to the paper.  (I guess we are all still unsure if this is Titanium Dioxide or something else.)  Also I don't think the coatings on these two papers are similar.  With some inks (Piezography Pro in particular) I've discovered that the Moab coating produces extremely small "sparkle" which becomes visible when looking at the paper in certain angles of light.  It's not unlike the sparkly dust you get from greeting cards these days. You can see it best when printing a flat field of darker ink.  The Canson paper doesn't have any of this.

I can't speak to either the Epson or Felix Schoeller papers you mention....don't use them.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2019, 01:21:19 pm »

I've done a lot of printing on Museo Portfolio Rag and it's in the same class of Moab Entrada and the others that have been mentioned.  Similar spectral response as per Ernst's database.
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edt

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Re: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2019, 11:04:47 am »

Reports of matte fine art papers/Entrada (pigment prints) contact glazed without sticking is reassuring and confirms my experience. I've framed epson hot press natural in contact with the glass with no known issues--new rules for new types of media I guess. For my market I need to avoid dry mounting the print, also want to eliminate spacers. For larger jobs all that is very time consuming.

In a similar thread on this forum someone reported framing Ilford pearl pigment prints in contact with glass with no issues experienced (so far). I'm wondering if anyone has any experience framing Epson Legacy Baryta (or similar quality baryta paper printed with pigmented inks) in direct contact with glazing?
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deanwork

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Re: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2019, 04:51:22 pm »

I’ve framed Platine , a semi gloss which is 100% cotton, sandwiched behind plexi for a two month show (I never use heavy glass ) and then left them in my studio that way for a year and a half and they look perfect, with not even any buckling of any kind. These are in the 20x30 and 30x40 range.

I mentioned before that I’ve had Canson Rag Photo matte prints framed this way ( with various inks) for about 12 years in daily daylight and they still look great. But in all cases these prints were sprayed with Premiere Art uv spray.

The Museo Portfolio Rag is a beautiful paper with a very sharp looking coating, sharper than any matte paper I’ve used ( Canson is second ).The Piezography K7 prints I did on it 10 years ago were less reddish warm on it than other natural papers and were just right for that job of Henry Burtons Photography of the first photographs from inside the King Tutt tomb.
However anything with large areas of pure black I could never do on this paper because it just didn’t handle dense black ink well on any of my printers. I was carefully linearizing with Studio Print at that time and large areas of black got mottled. Other people abandoned this paper for that reason observing that issue when making profiles. I also found Portfolio Rag was a very durable paper and didn’t flake when handled like Entrada or Hah Photorag can. I don’t know if they still coat it the same these days.

I kind of miss that paper. I want to go back and play with it more.

John



Reports of matte fine art papers/Entrada (pigment prints) contact glazed without sticking is reassuring and confirms my experience. I've framed epson hot press natural in contact with the glass with no known issues--new rules for new types of media I guess. For my market I need to avoid dry mounting the print, also want to eliminate spacers. For larger jobs all that is very time consuming.

In a similar thread on this forum someone reported framing Ilford pearl pigment prints in contact with glass with no issues experienced (so far). I'm wondering if anyone has any experience framing Epson Legacy Baryta (or similar quality baryta paper printed with pigmented inks) in direct contact with glazing?
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Are there any 100% cotton glossy/luster papers without TiO2?
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2019, 02:12:32 pm »

Thanks for sharing all your process, Mark. Good to know about the ability to contact-glaze Matte inkjet prints.
I discounted that from years back and RC Pigment & 'C-Prints', but it sounds like it's back on the table now.

From Ernst Dinkla's endlessly useful Spectrum-Viz, it looks like your Moab Entrada Natural 300gsm is the same as:
Epson Legacy Fibre Rag 314 and
Felix Schoeller True Rag Smooth Matt 305, and
Canson Rag Photographique 310

(Schoeller likely being the actual manufacturer of all these),

Other than the DS availability of MOAB, (not in rolls, which I use) they seem interchangeable, and the Epson is much better value right now with the rebate offer.  Any thoughts, or am I missing something?

The Moab has a different spectral plot, see left side, could be TiO2 but I think UV absorption should be more to the left.
Canson <> Felix Schoeller cooperate, at least for the coatings. Epson I do not know but it would not surprise me if they get the paper + coating from FS.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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