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Author Topic: Extreme weather  (Read 31744 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1660 on: February 20, 2020, 09:27:41 pm »

Apparently warming permafrost won;t cause huge releases of methane warming the climate.

Old carbon reservoirs unlikely to cause massive greenhouse gas release

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-carbon-reservoirs-massive-greenhouse-gas.html

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1661 on: February 21, 2020, 09:58:45 am »

Apparently warming permafrost won;t cause huge releases of methane warming the climate.

Old carbon reservoirs unlikely to cause massive greenhouse gas release

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-carbon-reservoirs-massive-greenhouse-gas.html

Yes, but also from that article:
Quote
Methane hydrates, on the other hand, are mostly found in ocean sediments along the continental margins. In methane hydrates, cages of water molecules trap methane molecules inside. Methane hydrates can only form under high pressures and low temperatures, so they are mainly found deep in the ocean. If ocean temperatures rise, so will the temperature of the ocean sediments where the methane hydrates are located. The hydrates will then destabilize, fall apart, and release the methane gas.

"If even a fraction of that destabilizes rapidly and that methane is transferred to the atmosphere, we would have a huge greenhouse impact because methane is such a potent greenhouse gas," Petrenko says. "The concern really has to do with releasing a truly massive amount of carbon from these stocks into the atmosphere as the climate continues to warm."
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1662 on: February 21, 2020, 12:26:37 pm »

Well,  there were concerns that warming would release all the permafrost methane.   Apparently, that shouldn't happen. Crying wolf all the time and never correcting errors won't convince skeptics. That's a problem with your side.

faberryman

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1663 on: February 21, 2020, 01:15:22 pm »

Crying wolf all the time and never correcting errors won't convince skeptics.
The scientific study referred to in the article corrects the error in belief concerning the release of methane from permafrost. Do you believe the scientific conclusions in this study. If so, why?

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1664 on: February 21, 2020, 01:31:12 pm »

The scientific study referred to in the article corrects the error in belief concerning the release of methane from permafrost. Do you believe the scientific conclusions in this study. If so, why?

And to add to that, they apparently (after a quick read) studied prior periods of gradual warming (after an Ice-age?), while we are in a period of unprecedented rapid warming after recovery from an Ice-age.  Warming upon warming (so fast that bacteria may be too slow to mitigate some of the outgassing), that's uncharted territory, to say the least ... Also, as oceans heat up, their capacity to absorb CO2 and Methane is reduced.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1665 on: February 21, 2020, 01:31:56 pm »

Apparently warming permafrost won;t cause huge releases of methane warming the climate.

Not as much as the livestock farming, but if you combine both these methane sources, it adds up.

RSL

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1666 on: February 21, 2020, 02:44:53 pm »

The biggest source of methane may well be from people yapping about climate change.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1667 on: February 21, 2020, 03:48:41 pm »

The scientific study referred to in the article corrects the error in belief concerning the release of methane from permafrost. Do you believe the scientific conclusions in this study. If so, why?
I have no idea whether it's accurate or not.  How could I?  I didn't do the study.   What I do know is that the media will ignore these studies because they go against their arguments supporting climate change.  That's the problem I'm highlighting.  That the deck is stacked and the media is bottom dealing.  The public is not getting a fair analysis because there's an agenda.  And that agenda keeps skeptics remaining skeptical.  Of course, most people have already drank the Cool-aide.    So they'll ignore any studies that may question the "common" beliefs. 

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1668 on: February 21, 2020, 04:04:42 pm »

The biggest source of methane may well be from people yapping about climate change.
depends on their diet

Rob C

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1669 on: February 21, 2020, 04:17:15 pm »

The biggest source of methane may well be from people yapping about climate change.


Depends if they are doing the yapping during meals: a recent study that I made reveals that methane output becomes greater when passions rise. That's particularly the case if there is a large bowl of lentejas soup on the go. Yummy!

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1670 on: February 21, 2020, 06:54:52 pm »

Depends if they are doing the yapping during meals: a recent study that I made reveals that methane output becomes greater when passions rise. That's particularly the case if there is a large bowl of lentejas soup on the go. Yummy!

This phenomenon can demonstrate itself not only with passion, but also with physical exertion. For example, when lifting and transporting the large soup pot from stove to table.

RSL

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1671 on: February 21, 2020, 07:40:37 pm »

Well the methane may or may not be a problem, but the amount of hot air certainly could make a significant contribution to global warming (or "climate change").
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LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1672 on: February 21, 2020, 11:50:59 pm »

Correct, Russ, but it is actually the other way around. Global warming contributes to warmer oceans and that in turn creates more hot air above the water surface. The two charts below demonstrate the rising trends of both the atmospheric CO2 and the air temperature.

Quote
Earth’s ocean has a much higher capacity to store heat than our atmosphere does. Thus, even relatively small exchanges of heat between the atmosphere and the ocean can result in significant changes in global surface temperatures. In fact, more than 90 percent of the extra heat from global warming is stored in the ocean. Periodically occurring ocean oscillations, such as El Niño and its cold-water counterpart, La Niña, have significant effects on global weather and can affect global temperatures for a year or two as heat is transferred between the ocean and atmosphere.

Understanding global temperature trends requires a long-term perspective. An examination of two famous climate records illustrate this point.
The Keeling Curve, a long-term record of global carbon dioxide concentrations is not a straight line: The curve jiggles up and down every year due to the seasonal cycling of carbon dioxide. But the long-term trend is clearly up, especially in recent decades. As countries around the world rapidly develop and gross domestic products increase, human-produced emissions of carbon dioxide are accelerating.





https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1673 on: February 21, 2020, 11:53:35 pm »

Les, Does Bart know you've been stealing his charts? :)

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1674 on: February 22, 2020, 12:12:21 am »

Les, Does Bart know you've been stealing his charts? :)

No, I go directly to the source, the NASA records. I didn't realize Bart posted those charts before. But posting it again won't hurt.
With some audiences, it might help to re-state the facts.

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1675 on: February 22, 2020, 12:21:14 am »

No, I go directly to the source, the NASA records. I didn't realize Bart posted those charts before. But posting it again won't hurt.
With some audiences, it might help to re-state the facts.
Yes, it's one of his most favorite charts.  He's posted updates very often.  I think he owns stock in the equipment company that charts the data.  Even Russ has mentioned how impressed he was with this chart.  ;)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1676 on: February 22, 2020, 04:25:31 am »

... With some audiences, it might help to re-state the facts.

Les, have you ever set through an annuity presentation (investments). Very persuasive. Because they use charts. Charts where they skillfully select a time period where what they peddle seems so true.

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1677 on: February 22, 2020, 04:43:20 am »

Les, have you ever set through an annuity presentation (investments). Very persuasive. Because they use charts. Charts where they skillfully select a time period where what they peddle seems so true.

Slobodan, I haven't watched lately any investment slide presentations, but I often use the stock performance charts (see below). Similarly to the atmospheric CO2 charts, you can select any date range in their historical database and see it in more detail. Those charts can be quite useful and I often make decisions based on that information.
As to the annuities, they are for sissies.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1678 on: February 22, 2020, 05:02:55 am »

...  Similarly to the atmospheric CO2 charts, you can select any date range in their historical database...

Exactly my point.

In the chart you posted, set the starting point to mid-2012 and see how it looks.

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1679 on: February 22, 2020, 05:46:17 am »

Exactly my point.

In the chart you posted, set the starting point to mid-2012 and see how it looks.

That's true, in that time frame the line goes down. But as Warren Buffers advocates, you have to ignore the noise and look at the long term trend.
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