Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 ... 112   Go Down

Author Topic: Extreme weather  (Read 50258 times)

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4245
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #540 on: August 09, 2019, 11:33:10 am »

Yes, but they will deny it regardless (e.g. by only cherry-picking some more plant biomass caused by elevated CO2 levels), because it's inconvenient. The number 3 cause (after #1 cancer and #2 cardiovascular causes) of premature death in my country is air-polution (mostly Particulate Matter (PM) smaller than 2.5 micron, and UFP (ultra-fine particles and black carbon smaller than 0.1 microns).

I've taken my measures to at least keep the PM levels low inside the house, and in particular in the bedroom (where almost of 1/3rd of the time is spent).

Cheers,
Bart

I am seeing what you mean. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8831
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #541 on: August 09, 2019, 11:39:42 am »

People don't die from air pollution.  It's not a disease.  Can you elaborate?  What makes it number 3?

It's not a decease, but a direct cause of a slew of (additional pulmonary, additional cardiovascular) deceases, and is seen as one of the causes (besides food patterns and old age) of diabetes type II. This is based on solid epidemiologic studies, in which variables like food patterns, healthy lifestyle, genetic disposition, etc., etc., are all accounted for. People on one side of my town, have an average life expectancy that's 3-5 months lower than on the other side (guess on which side a highway is situated). On the national level, average life expectancy in my country is reduced by some 8 months due to Particulate Matter, and another 3 months by NOx (Nitric oxides).

One of the mechanisms behind it, besides direct irritation of the pulmonary tract, has to do with with the constant elevation of Cortisol levels which constantly increases the level of blood-sugar above required levels. Other organ failures are caused by Particulate Matter small enough to enter our bloodstream directly through our lungs. Elevated levels of soot can be found in the kidneys of children who go to school nearby busy streets. There are American studies that directly link certain kidney failures to elevated levels of particulate matter.

There is too much evidence to ignore, that's why we can reliably rank it as the 3rd cause of premature death in my country.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #542 on: August 09, 2019, 11:44:00 am »

Hard to say, the numbers are far too low for reliable statistics to begin with.

Most excess mortality in the winter periods, like in 2017/2018, is caused by influenza.
In 2017/2018 some 9444 more people died than expected in the 18 weeks during the epidemic of that winter.



Cheers,
Bart
Thanks for presenting that statistic.  Why don't I ever hear from politicians and popular media how warmer winters are saving people from dying.  They only seem to die when it's warmer. :)  

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8831
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #543 on: August 09, 2019, 11:45:27 am »

Changes in population shifts with climate change as they have since time immemorial.  While some species might be affected negatively, others are positively affected.

Humans are negatively affected, cockroaches less so.

Quote
Also, warmer weather has increased species diversity and population.


Biodiversity has decreased significantly (not only due to Global temperature), almost worldwide. If you have reliable sources (pulling it out of thin air doesn't count) stating otherwise, I'm interested ...

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #544 on: August 09, 2019, 11:52:47 am »

It's not a decease, but a direct cause of a slew of (additional pulmonary, additional cardiovascular) deceases, and is seen as one of the causes (besides food patterns and old age) of diabetes type II. This is based on solid epidemiologic studies, in which variables like food patterns, healthy lifestyle, genetic disposition, etc., etc., are all accounted for. People on one side of my town, have an average life expectancy that's 3-5 months lower than on the other side (guess on which side a highway is situated). On the national level, average life expectancy in my country is reduced by some 8 months due to Particulate Matter, and another 3 months by NOx (Nitric oxides).

One of the mechanisms behind it, besides direct irritation of the pulmonary tract, has to do with with the constant elevation of Cortisol levels which constantly increases the level of blood-sugar above required levels. Other organ failures are caused by Particulate Matter small enough to enter our bloodstream directly through our lungs. Elevated levels of soot can be found in the kidneys of children who go to school nearby busy streets. There are American studies that directly link certain kidney failures to elevated levels of particulate matter.

There is too much evidence to ignore, that's why we can reliably rank it as the 3rd cause of premature death in my country.

Cheers,
Bart
Very confusing.  You stated originally that cardiovascular and cancer are 1 and 2.  So now air pollution also causes people to die from those same diseases making it #3.  How can you differentiate that a person died from heart disease due to pollution or from heart disease from natural causes?  Also, a 4 months difference in longevity is a perturbation.   SO your side of the street they live to 80 years 4 months and the other side they live to only 80 years, 4 months less? To assign it to pollution caused by the highway traffic between the two sides is a political guess.  I'm not saying pollution is good for you.  But the deaths you assign have no basis in fact or research.  It's just a guess.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #545 on: August 09, 2019, 12:01:03 pm »

Humans are negatively affected, cockroaches less so.
 

Biodiversity has decreased significantly (not only due to Global temperature), almost worldwide. If you have reliable sources (pulling it out of thin air doesn't count) stating otherwise, I'm interested ...

Cheers,
Bart

Why are humans effected less so by climate change?  Man has always done better as it warmed up.  Just look at where we are now compared to 12000 years ago during the last Ice Age.  Our population is higher than ever and we are living in more parts of the earth.  Both measurements are standard ones used for success of a species.  So we're doing great.  As more CO2 causes more food to be produced, people will do even better as we can feed more of us. 

Other species have also done better since the ice age although some species like the mammoth and saber tooth tiger have disappeared because of the warming.  If we have another ice age, we'll all do worse again.  Even Les in Canada will have to permanently  move to Florida. :)

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2404
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #546 on: August 09, 2019, 12:07:08 pm »

Why are humans effected less so by climate change?  Man has always done better as it warmed up.  Just look at where we are now compared to 12000 years ago during the last Ice Age.  Our population is higher than ever and we are living in more parts of the earth.  Both measurements are standard ones used for success of a species.  So we're doing great.  As more CO2 causes more food to be produced, people will do even better as we can feed more of us.
Why don't you turn off your air conditioning for a week and report back.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #547 on: August 09, 2019, 12:14:14 pm »

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8831
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #548 on: August 09, 2019, 12:16:52 pm »

Very confusing. You stated originally that cardiovascular and cancer are 1 and 2.

It may come as a shock to you, but most people do die from Cancer, and cardiovascular decease, that is not related to Particulate matter or NOx. The causes may be genetic or caused by foodrelated issues, to name just two.

IN ADDITION there are those where the cause is primarily particulate matter and NOx.

Quote
So now air pollution also causes people to die from those same diseases making it #3.  How can you differentiate that a person died from heart disease due to pollution or from heart disease from natural causes?  Also, a 4 months difference in longevity is a perturbation.   SO your side of the street they live to 80 years 4 months and the other side they live to only 80 years, 4 months less? To assign it to pollution caused by the highway traffic between the two sides is a political guess.  I'm not saying pollution is good for you.  But the deaths you assign have no basis in fact or research.  It's just a guess.

HOLD ON. I'm trying to dislodge the needle from my Troll-o-meter.

Ah, now you're running the I don't believe Scientists spiel again.

Friendly advice, try educating yourself first, then attempt to engage in a meaningful discussion.
Flatout denying without disproving is plain silly.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #549 on: August 09, 2019, 12:17:53 pm »

Why don't you turn off your air conditioning for a week and report back.
I live in America where we can afford electricity.  Not like in "let's go renewable" Germany where no one can afford air conditioning they're 2 1/2 times more expensive to run. 

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #550 on: August 09, 2019, 12:20:13 pm »

It may come as a shock to you, but most people do die from Cancer, and cardiovascular decease, that is not related to Particulate matter or NOx. The causes may be genetic or caused by foodrelated issues, to name just two.

IN ADDITION there are those where the cause is primarily particulate matter and NOx.

HOLD ON. I'm trying to dislodge the needle from my Troll-o-meter.

Ah, now you're running the I don't believe Scientists spiel again.

Friendly advice, try educating yourself first, then attempt to engage in a meaningful discussion.
Flatout denying without disproving is plain silly.

Cheers,
Bart


You  made the claim.  You prove it. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8831
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #551 on: August 09, 2019, 12:25:35 pm »


You  made the claim.  You prove it.

So you are admitting that your denial is baseless?

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8831
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #552 on: August 09, 2019, 12:28:08 pm »

I live in America where we can afford electricity.  Not like in "let's go renewable" Germany where no one can afford air conditioning they're 2 1/2 times more expensive to run.

It makes one wonder if only the water in Flint is affected...
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #553 on: August 09, 2019, 01:06:05 pm »

So you are admitting that your denial is baseless?

Cheers,
Bart
No I can't prove a negative.  If you have statistics showing air pollution in your country is 3rd for deaths, OK, I believe you.  You ought to clean up your atmosphere.  In the USA, our deaths from pollution don't even show up on the charts.
The number of deaths related to air pollution in the United States shrank by 47 percent between 1990 and 2010, dropping from 135,000 per year to 71,000. 
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/us-air-pollution-deaths-nearly-halved-over-two-decades
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3926
    • advantica blog
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #554 on: August 09, 2019, 01:07:07 pm »

Changes in population shifts with climate change as they have since time immemorial.  While some species might be affected negatively, others are positively affected.

Also, warmer weather has increased species diversity and population.  Just compare the warmer Amazon region and to colder Alaska.  Even Canadians do better when it's warmer.  :)

Positively affected were mainly the pests - mosquitoes, ticks, japanese beetles, locusts, vegetable-eating moths/caterpillars. And Florida pythons.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #555 on: August 09, 2019, 01:10:49 pm »

Positively affected were mainly the pests - mosquitoes, ticks, japanese beetles, locusts, vegetable-eating moths/caterpillars. And Florida pythons.
No. Florida pet Pythons were released in the Everglades by Canadians when they returned home after their winter vacationing season. If it was warmer still, you could have taken them home to release up there.  :)

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3926
    • advantica blog
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #556 on: August 09, 2019, 01:24:56 pm »

No. Florida pet Pythons were released in the Everglades by Canadians when they returned home after their winter vacationing season. If it was warmer still, you could have taken them home to release up there.  :)

This is what is the world coming to. At one time the Canadians were bring to Florida their pet polar bear cubs and moose calves, but these days it's primarily the Canada geese.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #557 on: August 09, 2019, 01:50:54 pm »

This is what is the world coming to. At one time the Canadians were bring to Florida their pet polar bear cubs and moose calves, but these days it's primarily the Canada geese.
We've got enough geese already.  I'm always stepping in their poop.  Do they add to global warming too like cows? 

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3926
    • advantica blog
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #558 on: August 09, 2019, 01:52:04 pm »

Positively affected were mainly the pests - mosquitoes, ticks, japanese beetles, locusts, vegetable-eating moths/caterpillars. And Florida pythons.

When the wind drops and the endless summer sun bakes the ponds that dot the frozen tundra, some of the Arctic’s most ferocious predators emerge and form menacing blizzards that darken the horizon – and everyone’s mood.

“It is the talk of the town when the Arctic mosquitoes are out,” says Lauren Culler, a postdoctoral researcher who studies insects in Greenland for Dartmouth College’s Institute of Arctic Studies. “There aren’t a lot of animals for them to eat in the Arctic, so when they finally find one, they are ferocious. They are relentless. They do not stop. They just keep going after you.”

Climate change, it turns out, may make that even worse.

Quote
Large, blood-sucking mosquitoes already are the bane of people, caribou, reindeer, and other mammals eking out a living in the frozen north. But as temperatures warm, mosquitoes above the Arctic Circle emerge earlier, grow faster, and survive as winged pests even longer, according to Culler’s new research, which was published Tuesday in Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

There aren’t a lot of animals for them (mosquitoes) to eat in the Arctic, so when they finally find one, they are ferocious. They are relentless. They do not stop.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/09/150915-Arctic-mosquito-warming-caribou-Greenland-climate-CO2/

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10009
    • Flicker photos
Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #559 on: August 09, 2019, 03:02:00 pm »

Mosquitoes don't seem as bad as they use to be when I was a kid.  At least in NY and NJ.  I was always getting bitten and had loads of itchy bites all season.  Maybe my chemistry has changed and they just don't like me anymore. 
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 ... 112   Go Up