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Author Topic: Extreme weather  (Read 54665 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #200 on: July 25, 2019, 03:19:07 pm »

If fish could talk they would tell you about the plastic mess in the oceans, Alan.

Pollution has nothing to do with warming temperatures.  In any case, more fish means more sea lions and more penguins that means more food for polar bears to feed on. 

Ivo_B

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #201 on: July 25, 2019, 03:19:59 pm »

11 years!? Even 30!? Seriously!? That’s climate change???

You guys are getting more and more laughable. Coincides with rising temperatures?

A guide in the Tatra explained the canyon we looked at. 9000 Years ago (when all was see in that area!) a giant glacier of 350 m height broke off and found his way to the see.
Doesn’t this sound familiar?
It is not an uncommon mistake of science to narrow everything down to the world of what science already can explain.

Question for the scientists among us. Is earth not warming up since Pinedale glaciation?
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Ivo_B

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #202 on: July 25, 2019, 03:22:34 pm »

Pollution has nothing to do with warming temperatures.  In any case, more fish means more sea lions and more penguins that means more food for polar bears to feed on.

I don’t make that link. I say human sort is ruining earth in speed. Pollution and destruction of the natural habitat of other species as main reason.
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faberryman

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #203 on: July 25, 2019, 03:31:36 pm »

In any case, more fish means more sea lions and more penguins that means more food for polar bears to feed on.
Polar bears are not predators of sea lions. And I doubt many polar bears are going to swim from the Arctic to the Antarctic to feed on penguins.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 03:43:25 pm by faberryman »
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Ivo_B

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #204 on: July 25, 2019, 03:32:58 pm »

I doubt many polar bears are going to swim from the arctic to the antarctic to feed on penguins.

Ha! Fake news, Faberyman!! 🥴
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #205 on: July 25, 2019, 03:42:39 pm »

I doubt many polar bears are going to swim from the Arctic to the Antarctic to feed on penguins.
Hey you never know.  If they get hungry enough.  :)

OK more seals and sea lions.

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #206 on: July 25, 2019, 03:46:39 pm »

I don’t make that link. I say human sort is ruining earth in speed. Pollution and destruction of the natural habitat of other species as main reason.

Why don;t you make that link?  Just like the suspension of hunting seals has expanded their population and the subsequent population of white sharks that feed on them, more fish expands the population of animals that feed on fish.  So more seals helps polar bears to survive.  Also white sharks. That's how nature works.  Global warming has cause the greening of the earth to the tune of twice the area of the United States.  Think of all the species expansion that has occured.  Of course, the climate change proponents won't tell you about the species that expand, only those that decrease.  They cherry pick bad news only to fool the public.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #207 on: July 25, 2019, 03:52:01 pm »

... Since you don't provide a source...

I thought you are current with the latest news? Or you just notice those confirming your bias?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/warming-temperatures-could-transform-antarctica-plant-filled-land-green-180971880/

"CO2 Levels Are as High as They Were Three Million Years Ago"


Quote
...the last time Earth’s atmosphere contained the amount of carbon dioxide present today, Antarctica was a plant-covered oasis, sea levels were an estimated 10 to 20 meters higher, and global temperatures were an average of 2 to 3 degrees Celsius warmer. In the Arctic, summer temperatures were a full 14 degrees higher than they are now.

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #208 on: July 25, 2019, 03:59:03 pm »

I thought you are current with the latest news? Or you just notice those confirming your bias?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/warming-temperatures-could-transform-antarctica-plant-filled-land-green-180971880/

"CO2 Levels Are as High as They Were Three Million Years Ago"


My wife and I were planning a cruise from Rio to Chile around South America with a stop off in Antarctica to eat some penguins.  If we wait awhile, we might be able to leave our parkas at home. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #209 on: July 25, 2019, 04:56:22 pm »

11 years!? Even 30!? Seriously!? That’s climate change???

Yes, that's the period over which to average to pick up the Trend and suppress the fluctuations. The 11 year period e.g. is to even out the solar sunspot cycle fluctuation. Surprised you didn't know that.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #210 on: July 25, 2019, 05:05:07 pm »

Yes, that's the period over which to average to pick up the Trend and suppress the fluctuations. The 11 year period e.g. is to even out the solar sunspot cycle fluctuation. Surprised you didn't know that.

Trend smoothing is one thing. Claiming that 11 years represent "climate" vs. "weather" is quite another.

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #211 on: July 25, 2019, 07:31:21 pm »

Pollution has nothing to do with warming temperatures.  In any case, more fish means more sea lions and more penguins that means more food for polar bears to feed on.

Allan, the fish stock in the oceans has been continuously decreasing. The only places the fish stock is increasing are the fish farms, but that fish comes laced with antibiotics, hormones and sea lice.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #212 on: July 25, 2019, 07:37:55 pm »

My wife and I were planning a cruise from Rio to Chile around South America with a stop off in Antarctica to eat some penguins.  If we wait awhile, we might be able to leave our parkas at home.

Never mind parkas, but maybe also the forks and knives.

Quote
Antarctic penguin populations have dropped more than 25 percent on average over the past two decades, according to a new report released Tuesday from the nonprofit environmental group Oceanites. Climate change is leading to a precipitous decline in several penguin populations on the Antarctic Peninsula, according to the group, which completed the first comprehensive survey of the region’s species in 24 years using satellite images.

What happens to penguins, happens to us all. We’re all biological creatures,” Naveen said, adding that humans, like penguins, have four basic needs for survival: food, home, health and offspring.

Could be due to climate change or cruise tourists.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/penguin-populations-shrinking-antarctica

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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #213 on: July 25, 2019, 07:52:54 pm »

Allan, the fish stock in the oceans has been continuously decreasing. The only places the fish stock is increasing are the fish farms, but that fish comes laced with antibiotics, hormones and sea lice.
Fish population reduction in the open oceans due to man eating more of them is one thing.  But if climate changes allows population increases, that's a separate issue and a plus for warming.  So the problem is not the climate.  It's man's increasing population as a predator that's affecting fish stocks.

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #214 on: July 25, 2019, 08:05:50 pm »

Never mind parkas, but maybe also the forks and knives.

Could be due to climate change or cruise tourists.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/penguin-populations-shrinking-antarctica



I was going to say photograph penguins.  But I thought I'd wake everyone up by saying we'd eat them.  Anyway, my wife is a part-vegetarian and would only eat the fish they're eating, but stays away from eating birds, fork or no fork. :)

Speaking of penguin population, they discovered 1 1/2 million  of them that they didn;t know even existed.  They were hidden for almost three thousand years.  Of course, the scientists claim that climate change has even decreased this population by 10-20%.  How do they know?  Seems like everything gets blamed on climate change.  MAybe it's just man eating too many of the same fish penguins depends on.  What I wonder about is why does the tropics where it is warmest have the most diverse and populated species in the world?  The colder climes get, the less diverse and less populated.  As the earth warms, it actually will be better for creatures.  Even man has done better in warmer climates as agriculture provides more food when it's warmer.  Mini-ice ages decrease human populations as well as other species. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #215 on: July 25, 2019, 08:06:31 pm »

Trend smoothing is one thing. Claiming that 11 years represent "climate" vs. "weather" is quite another.

As I said, "Climate change, as has been explained many times already, is the long (11, 20 or 30 years) term trend."

Apparently, I also had to explain (in at least one simple way of doing it) how a trend is calculated.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #216 on: July 25, 2019, 08:07:12 pm »

faberryman

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #217 on: July 25, 2019, 08:16:10 pm »

Here's the link for the penguins million.
https://www.livescience.com/64282-hidden-adelie-penguin-supercolony.html
Do you even bother to read the articles you cite?

"After all, the rest of the Adélie penguins on the mainland, their habitat hit hard by climate change, have been steadily declining for the past 40 years. In fact, "nowhere is the climate changing more rapidly than on the Antarctic peninsula," Lynch said.

But some of the team's new findings suggest that although 1.5 million seems like a big number, it's not as large as it once might have been. After their initial analyses of recent satellite imagery, the team decided to look at past satellite images that date back to 1982.

They found that the Adélie penguin populations likely peaked in the late 1990s and "has been on a slow but steady decline ever since," Lynch said. The decline "is not catastrophic," but rather on the order of a 10 to 20 percent decline, she later added.

Because the Danger Islands are almost always surrounded by sea ice, they are more protected from krill fishing and other human interventions than other areas of the continent, Lynch said. But even so, the best working hypothesis is that the population decline there is probably also due to climate change."
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 08:22:15 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #218 on: July 25, 2019, 08:32:51 pm »

Do you even bother to read the articles you cite?

"After all, the rest of the Adélie penguins on the mainland, their habitat hit hard by climate change, have been steadily declining for the past 40 years. In fact, "nowhere is the climate changing more rapidly than on the Antarctic peninsula," Lynch said.

But some of the team's new findings suggest that although 1.5 million seems like a big number, it's not as large as it once might have been. After their initial analyses of recent satellite imagery, the team decided to look at past satellite images that date back to 1982.

They found that the Adélie penguin populations likely peaked in the late 1990s and "has been on a slow but steady decline ever since," Lynch said. The decline "is not catastrophic," but rather on the order of a 10 to 20 percent decline, she later added."

I acknowledged the 10-20% decline in my post #214.  Apparently you didn't read it.  What I don't necessarily agree with that it's due to climate change.  They made an assumption that their belief of a decline on the mainland due to climate change also applies to the island where these penguins live.  They haven't studied the reason for the decline on the island. They only jumped to a conclusion, not a scientific method. 

The other issue is, that over time, population groups move and change in size as the climate changes.  This happens with all species.  It takes time for things to settle down again.  But over the long haul, there no deleterious effect to the species itself.  Species population expand and contract all the time due to all kinds of changes in the environment.  So what? It's normal.  The penguins could rebound elsewhere where the climate has now become more favorable to them.  But we're only taking a snapshot in time and not seeing the whole evolution playing out.  Of course, in extreme cases, species go extinct or evolve.  Brown bears become polar bears and might go back to being brown bears again and feed on warmer land.   But that's been going to for billions of years.  Again, so what?

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #219 on: July 25, 2019, 08:41:19 pm »

Impact of climate change on man through time.  Civilizations have come and gone because of climate changes.  And these changes occur naturally without man's interference.  Arguing that somehow we have to maintain climates as they were one or two hundred years ago before fossil fuels were used, is an impossible goal. Better we analyze what the changes are to be expected. Then use resources efficiently to compensate for those changes. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_impacts_of_climate_change
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