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Author Topic: Extreme weather  (Read 112836 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1480 on: January 28, 2020, 04:16:58 pm »

... There should be MORE trust in science, than ever before...

Actually, there is MORE need for scepticism about "science" than ever before, for two reasons. Reason #1 is well explained by Alan K. (in short, everybody is a scientist these days, just like photographers, and their instantaneous reach to the public via mass media and Internet is nothing short of dangerous).

Reason #2 is that, with the waning influence of organized religion, people are turning to science as the new religion.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1481 on: January 28, 2020, 04:21:39 pm »

Relax, that sounds frantic. You're letting ideology rule your thinking, much like all those "student radicals" do.

Every environmental policy in the last 50 years has improved our lives. It has nothing to do with totalitarianism, you just insist on seeing everything through the same lens. It's a bizarre notion, that designing systems that conserve resources are viewed as "left-wing rule" on your part. Time for you to step back and re-analyze. Most of the corporate world started doing exactly that several decades ago. You're stuck in a meme.

Nobody is destroying your way of life. If anything, the rest of the world is rushing to adopt it, with occasional hiccups along the way as per normal.

There are moves in the coal belt to prevent agencies from collecting disease data. From the rantings on these threads, it sounds like many people want to stop climate modelling, presumably because it doesn't produce the results they favour. Do you really think that kind of strategy can work? Don't you think that people will notice that strip coal mining produces air pollutants than make people sick? Do you think that making it more difficult for people to sue when they get sick is actually a good thing for society?

Just because people you don't like who supports a policy does not make the policy bad. You're not thinking straight.

I am not sure if you are doing it deliberately, but you are changing goal posts mid-game. You will not find any post of mine that I am arguing against the things in bold above. That is environmental stuff. That is Erin Brockovich stuff. I support all that. But that is not climate change.

David Sutton

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1482 on: January 28, 2020, 08:08:53 pm »

Nobody is destroying your way of life. If anything, the rest of the world is rushing to adopt it, with occasional hiccups along the way as per normal.

Maybe, maybe not.
The dominant religion for the last 300 years has been the belief in progress. It's one of the cornerstones of capitalism and socialism, and most other “isms”. It's delivered some useful things, but has also turned every human being into a commodity.
The idea that humans have caused climate change is an attack on the foundations of the belief in progress. No more “onward and upward”. Faced with an existential threat to their belief system and the fantasy of continuing their current way of life indefinitely, I'm surprised more people haven't joined the climate change deniers.
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kers

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1483 on: January 30, 2020, 04:47:39 am »

Actually, there is MORE need for scepticism about "science" than ever before, for two reasons. Reason #1 is well explained by Alan K. (in short, everybody is a scientist these days, just like photographers, and their instantaneous reach to the public via mass media and Internet is nothing short of dangerous).

Reason #2 is that, with the waning influence of organized religion, people are turning to science as the new religion.

#1 is demonstrated by Alan Klein.
#2 science will never be a religion in the way it will always be finetuned and insights might even completely changed based upon new evidence and proof ; science is an open end.

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waning influence of organized religion
I see an strong uprising Christian religious Amerika at the moment influenced by Pence and Pompeo from their believe and Trump because he thinks it will get him more votes.
It goes from Muslim bans, abortion bans, the choice of the conservative supreme court judges to the full support of Israels in the case of the new 'Peace plan' and the oppression of Iran.

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Pieter Kers
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1484 on: January 30, 2020, 05:05:45 am »

... I see an strong uprising Christian religious Amerika at the moment..

kers

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1485 on: January 30, 2020, 06:03:19 am »

I guess we both are right.

back to the ( extreme ) weather...
In the Netherlands everything is moderate also the weather... We have had a long period without sun and 5º...
today at last some sun again...
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1486 on: January 30, 2020, 09:51:16 am »



Which suggests that the evangelicals might have too much influence in political and judicial matters. Practice whatever religion they like, but why do they assume they have the right to tell others what to do. So much for "freedom".

Maybe the next time some goofball like Pat Robertson calls New Orleans hurricanes the wages of sin or openly worries about gay penguins (because two male penguins in a zoo somewhere adopted the caretaking of an egg) some politician with cojones will tell the old moron to shut the eff up.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1487 on: January 30, 2020, 10:13:07 am »

Which suggests that the evangelicals might have too much influence in political and judicial matters. Practice whatever religion they like, but why do they assume they have the right to tell others what to do. So much for "freedom".

Maybe the next time some goofball like Pat Robertson calls New Orleans hurricanes the wages of sin or openly worries about gay penguins (because two male penguins in a zoo somewhere adopted the caretaking of an egg) some politician with cojones will tell the old moron to shut the eff up.

The Bill of Rights in our Constitution (ei. free speech, religious freedom, right to bear arms, etc) are what defends Americans from the abuse of power of the election box and any one group.  Laws are written based on majority democratic votes only as long as the personal rights contained in our Constitution are not infringed or violated by those laws.   

It's a good system we have. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1488 on: January 30, 2020, 01:53:36 pm »

GIGO so they've been using the wrong criteria in over 2000 studies. Not as bad as they thought.   I wonder if this will be on page 1 of the NY Times? 

It's this kind of stuff that gives climate change science a bad name

Quote: "Rather than being seen as something that only had a 3% chance of becoming reality, it became known as the "business-as-usual" scenario, by climate scientists and has been used in more than 2,000 research papers since."
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiN2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmJiYy5jby51ay9uZXdzL3NjaWVuY2UtZW52aXJvbm1lbnQtNTEyODE5ODbSATtodHRwczovL3d3dy5iYmMuY28udWsvbmV3cy9hbXAvc2NpZW5jZS1lbnZpcm9ubWVudC01MTI4MTk4Ng?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Rob C

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1489 on: January 30, 2020, 02:24:33 pm »

Which suggests that the evangelicals might have too much influence in political and judicial matters. Practice whatever religion they like, but why do they assume they have the right to tell others what to do. So much for "freedom".

Maybe the next time some goofball like Pat Robertson calls New Orleans hurricanes the wages of sin or openly worries about gay penguins (because two male penguins in a zoo somewhere adopted the caretaking of an egg) some politician with cojones will tell the old moron to shut the eff up.


I have mentioned before that an unfortunate part of my youth was spent in a boarding school run by fundamentalist Christians. You have to experience it to understand it. There is no reasoning, no questioning; it's the closest thing to absolute, blind political belief systems you will find. I believe it does more to distance people from religion than anything else. You have to escape its grasp and lie fallow inside for many years, until your own mind comes to certain conclusions about life and faith and matters of your soul. Then, and only then, I believe, you finally have the ability to cut through the jungle of organized thought and see meanings and purposes for yourself. Those, I find, that I can trust, and from which derive an inner sense of peace and a more positive approach to what we may be, and where we go when we go.

It's often difficult, but you have to think for yourself. Binding yourself to any faith that simply tells you that it's right because it quotes it's foundations in which lie its beliefs, is not really enough. It's just another "it's right because I say so" situation (as everyone will recognize from regular LuLaing). As a basis for clean and friendly coexistence between people, the general sense of the Commandments is pretty sound; it's when taken to simplistic, rigidly held belief and interpretation that trouble starts and destroys the good that comes from the basic concept.

Not much new, then.

Rob

Peter McLennan

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1490 on: January 30, 2020, 02:31:07 pm »


As a basis for clean and friendly coexistence between people, the general sense of the Commandments is pretty sound; it's when taken to simplistic, rigidly held belief and interpretation that trouble starts and destroys the good that comes from the basic concept.

Should be written above the door of each and every church.  Especially the ones that devised the business model of the sale of forgiveness.



Rob
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faberryman

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1491 on: January 30, 2020, 02:40:54 pm »

It's often difficult, but you have to think for yourself.
Surprisingly, little of that goes on.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1492 on: January 30, 2020, 02:46:54 pm »

Interesting article about the Thwaites glacier in Antartica.

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Glaciologists have described Thwaites as the "most important" glacier in the world, the "riskiest" glacier, even the "doomsday" glacier.

It is massive - roughly the size of Britain.
It already accounts for 4% of world sea level rise each year - a huge figure for a single glacier - and satellite data show that it is melting increasingly rapidly.
There is enough water locked up in it to raise world sea level by more than half a metre.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51097309
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RSL

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1493 on: January 30, 2020, 03:40:21 pm »

We'd better all run for the hills, Les.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1494 on: January 30, 2020, 04:17:00 pm »

We'd better all run for the hills, Les.

You should read it, Russ
This was not so much a doomsday report, as an interesting article how the scientists drilled with a hot water drill a hole in half-a-mile thick ice. You need a lot of heavy machinery for a project like that.

 

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To gather all the necessary data the MELT team, which included scientists from Georgia Tech, developed Icefin, an underwater robot to navigate the waters underneath the glacier and to collect data in the area where the glacier meets the sea.

Using a hot-water drill, the MELT team was able to drill nearly half a mile or through 2,300 feet of ice to get to the ocean and seafloor. The Icefin was then able to swim more than a mile to the Thwaites grounding zone to gather data including measurements and images. The robot also mapped the glacier's melting.

“We designed Icefin to be able to finally enable access to grounding zones of glaciers, places where observations have been nearly impossible, but where rapid change is taking place,” said Dr. Britney Schmidt, lead scientist for Icefin and associate professor in Georgia Tech’s School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences Schmidt, a co-investigator on the MELT project, in a press release announcing the results. “We’re proud of Icefin since it represents a new way of looking at glaciers and ice shelves. For really the first time, we can drive miles under the ice to measure and map processes we can’t otherwise reach. We’ve taken the first close-up look at a grounding zone. It’s our ‘walking on the moon’ moment.”

Here is another similar report from that area.

https://interestingengineering.com/researchers-drill-deep-into-one-of-the-most-important-antarctica-glaciers


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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1495 on: January 31, 2020, 05:39:46 pm »

Well, let's see what the scientists could say.

Option 1:  It looks really bad the way the land and the ice seem to be traveling past one another.  We really got some awful evidence with our trillion dollar cameras.  We need to study this for at least another ten years to check how bad it's going to get.  We wouldn't want any more polar bears to starve.

or,

Option 2:  Well, we looked and noticed the ice is passing the edge of the land.  Nothing unusual that we can tell.  The government ought to shut down the program and save their money.  I'll be alright.  I use to be a short-order cook.

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1496 on: January 31, 2020, 05:49:03 pm »

Well, let's see what the scientists could say.
We need to study this for at least another ten years to check how bad it's going to get.  We wouldn't want any more polar bears to starve.

I'm afraid there are no more polar bears around that glacier.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1497 on: January 31, 2020, 06:27:48 pm »

I'm afraid there are no more polar bears around that glacier.
Well, that's good.  At least no more will die. The scientists are already doing valuable work. Maybe with ten year more research, the polar bears will be back.  :)

RSL

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1498 on: January 31, 2020, 07:55:13 pm »

You should read it, Russ
This was not so much a doomsday report, as an interesting article how the scientists drilled with a hot water drill a hole in half-a-mile thick ice. You need a lot of heavy machinery for a project like that.

I'll read it when I get time, Les. I have a brother-in-law who spent a year on a scientific expedition to Antarctica. I also once volunteered for an Arctic survival course run by the Air Force. Didn't get to go, unfortunately. Wanted to do it because I was flying over some pretty desolate winter territory in northern Montana and southern Canada.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #1499 on: February 01, 2020, 10:52:43 pm »

Reducing carbon emissions with nuclear.

"Rolls-Royce plans to build up to 15 mini nuclear reactors in Britain"
https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/
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