Extreme weather

[Robert Roaldi]

Historical perspective is always good, the western US and water: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-the-west-was-lost.

<description below added later, as requested by moderator>
The article is by John F Ross from The Atlantic. From the article "In America’s first climate war, John Wesley Powell tried to prevent the overdevelopment that led to environmental devastation." It is a description of western US development from a water use/climate point of view.

[LesPalenik]

Historical perspective is always good, the western US and water: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-the-west-was-lost.

Thanks for the interesting link, Ronald. Definitely more interesting and insightful than many of the posts here.
Hopefully, the proponents of the unlimited growth and exploitation of the land will learn something from the history. Otherwise, we will have to speed up the Mars colonization mission.

[Ray]

One type of extreme weather event that the IPCC is confident has been increasing due to global warming, is the frequency of 'heavy precipitation' events.

All we have to do now is capture that rainfall and slow down its return to the sea. We can then increase crop production significantly, due to increased water supply and increased CO2 levels, and at the same time slow down or even stop sea level rise so that wealthy people, such as Al Gore and Barack Obama, whose homes are close to the beach, can relax with no worries. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Historical perspective is always good, the western US and water: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-the-west-was-lost.

I must, once again, express my annoyance with your habit of posting links without even a hint of what they are about and the point they make.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I must, once again, express my annoyance with your habit of posting links without even a hint of what they are about and the point they make.

How hard can it be? "Historical perspective", so it's probably not about the future, and  "the western US and water" makes me guess that it's not about Europe. And in a thead about Extreme Weather makes me expect it to have something to do with climate and other conspiracies.

Of course, if one is not interested in stuff like that, then, by all means, one should not click the link.

BTW, your comment, coming from someone who likes to post doctored images as a comment without explanation, strikes me as a bit odd.

[Alan Klein]

How hard can it be? "Historical perspective", so it's probably not about the future, and  "the western US and water" makes me guess that it's not about Europe. And in a thead about Extreme Weather makes me expect it to have something to do with climate and other conspiracies.

Of course, if one is not interested in stuff like that, then, by all means, one should not click the link.

BTW, your comment, coming from someone who likes to post doctored images as a comment without explanation, strikes me as a bit odd.

Bart I think it would be helpful if you summed up in one sentence the point of the article or maybe a section of it.     Or give your opinion about a subject then use the link to provide backup for further information.   Then if someone is interested in reading the whole thing, they would.   It's unfair and unreasonable to expect people to read long articles just because you posted a link.   

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Bart I think it would be helpful if you summed up in one sentence the point of the article or maybe a section of it.     Or give your opinion about a subject then use threw link to provide backup ir further information.   Then if someone is interested in reading the whole thing, they would.   It's unfair and unreasonable to expect people to read long articles just because you posted a link.

It's not my link. And it's a nice article about a historical perspective, "In America’s first climate war, John Wesley Powell tried to prevent the overdevelopment that led to environmental devastation." "Before his time, Powell understood that unbridled optimism and headlong land development would lead to environmental ruin and mass human suffering."

So, it's also about how history repeats itself when short term profit is taken as more important than the warnings that climate gives us, and the devastating results from denying it.

[Alan Klein]

Bart, I read the article that you presented about the American West and its limits of water. I think it's interesting that you a Dutchman lives in a country that's below sea level and has had to use dams and dikes and other scientific inventions to protect your country, should be the first to acknowledge that people do live in areas that are very difficult to maintain.  Are you planning to leave the Netherlands?

I'm in San Diego County California right now having flown across the u.s. from New Jersey. When I flew across the Colorado Plateau you could see how arid the West really is except for the snow-capped peaks of the Rockies to provide water for this huge area.  But the population is huge and people have survived.   Our friends  told us how they built a desalinization plant here with Israeli Engineers help.

Somehow the west wil get through water shortages just as the world will get through climate change as they have in the past.   Sure there's will be displacements.   But life will go on.

[Robert Roaldi]

Bart I think it would be helpful if you summed up in one sentence the point of the article or maybe a section of it.     Or give your opinion about a subject then use the link to provide backup for further information.   Then if someone is interested in reading the whole thing, they would.   It's unfair and unreasonable to expect people to read long articles just because you posted a link.

Alan, I didn't provide that linked article for you. You never read or listen to anything anyone suggests.

[Alan Klein]

UN climate talks collapse.  Trump gets blamed.   China breathes a sigh of relief not having to commit to anything. 
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/15/united-nations-climate-talks-collapse-after-trump-shuns-paris-pact-085464

[Alan Klein]

Alan, I didn't provide that linked article for you. You never read or listen to anything anyone suggests.

Robert I don't understand you're post.i was responding to Bart and Slobo.

[Robert Roaldi]

Somehow the west wil get through water shortages just as the world will get through climate change as they have in the past.   Sure there's will be displacements.   But life will go on.

Of course life will go on, mother nature will endure. But wouldn't it be a good idea if we did things a bit more carefully so as to mitigate against pointless suffering. Just sayin'.

[Alan Klein]

Of course life will go on, mother nature will endure. But wouldn't it be a good idea if we did things a bit more carefully so as to mitigate against pointless suffering. Just sayin'.

Sure.   But Powell wasn't going to stop the westward migration of America because he thought there would be water problems.   Any more than people will drastically change their lives because the sea might rise two inches 50 years from now.   

[Robert Roaldi]

Sure.   But Powell wasn't going to stop the westward migration of America because he thought there would be water problems.

People change how they do things all the time based on new circumstances and information.

Any more than people will drastically change their lives because the sea might rise two inches 50 years from now.

You wanna bet? They've already started to, what are you talking about.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

How hard can it be?...

This hard:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=125586.msg1052569#msg1052569

Quite a few posts recently have consisted solely of a link to an external site. Such posts are no longer acceptable: they are difficult to distinguish from clickbait.

This is a discussion forum; in case anyone is in any doubt about what that means, the forum exists for members to hold discussions to which those who choose to post can make their own contributions.

That does not preclude including links to external web pages if they are relevant to the topic under discussion. However, any post which includes such a link must also include text which:

- summarises the information contained in the linked page;
- indicates, if it is not obvious, why that information is of interest;
- if the linked page is long, indicates where in that page the relevant information is to be found.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

People change how they do things all the time based on new circumstances and information.

Only the smarter ones, or those who don't want to waste infinite amounts of resources, will start by turning off the faucet instead of just buying more and bigger mops. The other ones will just throw more and more money at it trying to keep their heads above the water, and as a result have less to spend on useful things, like healthcare and education.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

This hard:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=125586.msg1052569#msg1052569

So? The link was preceded by a summary/introduction.

P.S. And since when were you appointed moderator?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So? The link was preceded by a summary/introduction.

P.S. And since when were you appointed moderator?

You call this a summary: “ Historical perspective is always good, the western US and water:”!?

P.S. There is a “report to moderator” button, however, so one doesn’t have to be a moderator himself.

[Alan Klein]

People change how they do things all the time based on new circumstances and information.


You wanna bet? They've already started to, what are you talking about.

But Powell did not stop westward migration.  The West was populated despite water issues. 

And climate change is only affecting us on the margins.   Most people ignore it although I had to pay a dime for a bag to take my groceries here in California. And you need to use paper not plastic straws.  Most everyday activities area not affected.    In NJ, if you live along the shore,  then you're concerned more.   People raise their homes on stilts.   But they're not moving out.   In fact real estate prices are higher than ever in those places.

[LesPalenik]

And climate change is only affecting us on the margins.   Most people ignore it although I had to pay a dime for a bag to take my groceries here in California. And you need to use paper not plastic straws.  Most everyday activities area not affected.    In NJ, if you live along the shore,  then you're concerned more.   People raise their homes on stilts.   But they're not moving out.   In fact real estate prices are higher than ever in those places.

Real-estate prices are rising everywhere. The increase in house prices in New Jersey could be due to the higher prices for the stilts, and to the increased immigration from Long Island which faces higher water levels than the NJ coastline.