Republicans and democrats don't understand each other

[LesPalenik]

I agree.  People jump into surgeries like they're getting a tooth pulled.  Surgeons recommend them because, well, that's what they do.  Again, some recommendation for surgery is because doctors don't want to get sued for not recommending them and then someone dies.  If the patient tell them they don;t want the surgery anyway, then at least the doctor can say he recommended it.  One of the main things to help our costs would be to change tort laws to stop so many lawsuits and the huge awards granted by juries.  Doctors spend six figures on liability insurance which gets included in his patient fees.  It all adds to medical costs.

Very true. The first and simplest step in reducing the healthcare costs would be to get rid of the frivolous law suits and consequently expensive malpractice insurances.
In addition, many more lives would be saved.

[Alan Klein]

"(Senator) Kamala Harris proposes $100 billion plan for black homeownership."

More "free" stuff to buy votes. This is why the original constitution had legislatures select senators and not by popular vote which it was changed to in the 1900's.. More redistribution of wealth.  Never ends. 
This is how the housing crisis of 2008 started in the early 2000's.  When Congress forced banks to give mortgages to people who shouldn't get them.  Here we go again.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/06/kamala-harris-homeownership-2020-1399253

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

"(Senator) Kamala Harris proposes $100 billion plan for black homeownership."

Basically, a racist proposal.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Very true. The first and simplest step in reducing the healthcare costs would be to get rid of the frivolous law suits and consequently expensive malpractice insurances.
In addition, many more lives would be saved.

This is an erroneous conclusion.   Several states have caps on how much can be awarded on malpractice lawsuits.   There is little impact on the cost of healthcare on those states versus states that do not have a cap.

[LesPalenik]

The malpractice suits and excessive malpractice insurance are real expenditures and they increase total healthcare costs. Not counting the doctor's time in court rooms and legal offices which could be used more productively for seeing more patients. I can't even guess such costs, but they add up.
 
Not only that, but because of the threat of malpractice suits, many doctors won't engage in new or potentially risky surgeries and treatments, thus indirectly contributing to higher death rates.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Jeremy:  Since you complained that I had read a misinformed article, I did a search on Google and this article from the BBC popped up.:
In it was said: "His parents said they wanted to fly him to a hospital in Italy but this was blocked by Alder Hey, which said continuing treatment was "not in Alfie's best interests"."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43754949

Alan, I give up. I present you with links which will allow you, with a single click and a little time and mental effort, to inform yourself of the issues in the case; yet you insist on acquiring only information pre-digested and filtered for you by journalists. How can you hope ever to understand? You wish to present the case as "1984", as interference by government, by the "state", yet you wilfully refuse to read the original sources, which would indicate that it was nothing of the kind.

I have in the past read your posts with interest and respected your opinions. This episode has destroyed that respect: as Sir Alan Herbert brilliantly put it, "It is like the thirteenth stroke of a crazy clock, which not only is itself discredited but casts a shade of doubt over all previous assertions.". Were it not for my obligation as forum moderator to read all posts, I would make you the first, and only, person on my "blocked" list.

I'm saddened.

Jeremy

[Rob C]

Alan, I give up. I present you with links which will allow you, with a single click and a little time and mental effort, to inform yourself of the issues in the case; yet you insist on acquiring only information pre-digested and filtered for you by journalists. How can you hope ever to understand? You wish to present the case as "1984", as interference by government, by the "state", yet you wilfully refuse to read the original sources, which would indicate that it was nothing of the kind.

I have in the past read your posts with interest and respected your opinions. This episode has destroyed that respect: as Sir Alan Herbert brilliantly put it, "It is like the thirteenth stroke of a crazy clock, which not only is itself discredited but casts a shade of doubt over all previous assertions.". Were it not for my obligation as forum moderator to read all posts, I would make you the first, and only, person on my "blocked" list.

I'm saddened.

Jeremy

It's that refusal - or is it inability? - to take on board new information that contradicts an established, ingrained credo, that is the thing raising blood pressure and making tempers fly. The frustration of writing something that clearly explains why some things are as they are, which is subsequently ignored, and then the same old point raised over and over again, removes all sense of corresponding with a sane human being.

As my granddad used to say to me: trying to convince a fool is like trying to whip the fog! Yep, he was talking to me about me, but I was maybe twelve at the time. As we know, time changes everything!

;-)

[jeremyrh]

It's that refusal - or is it inability? - to take on board new information that contradicts an established, ingrained credo, that is the thing raising blood pressure and making tempers fly. The frustration of writing something that clearly explains why some things are as they are, which is subsequently ignored, and then the same old point raised over and over again, removes all sense of corresponding with a sane human being.

But Rob, you (and I) are just a dinosaur. This is the way the internet, and the rest of the media, are these days. There is no obligation felt to tell the truth, or engage in rational debate. Claims are made and before the truth is checked, the subject moves on and new claims are made. The lies and the truth become hopelessly mixed. Trump is the obvious example, but in deference to our friends across the Herring Pond, consider instead our next Prime Minister, who sets big store by his record as London mayor, but as everyone knows, those claims simply don't stack up against the truth, from Heathrow runways to knife crime. 

I read somewhere that in USSR time there was a word for a lie that everyone knew was a lie - perhaps Slobo can help me out. Now we have caught up with the Commies. Maybe Slobo is partly right - socialism does indeed end up in totalitarianism, but then so does everything else !

[Robert Roaldi]

But Rob, you (and I) are just a dinosaur. This is the way the internet, and the rest of the media, are these days. There is no obligation felt to tell the truth, or engage in rational debate. Claims are made and before the truth is checked, the subject moves on and new claims are made. The lies and the truth become hopelessly mixed. Trump is the obvious example, but in deference to our friends across the Herring Pond, consider instead our next Prime Minister, who sets big store by his record as London mayor, but as everyone knows, those claims simply don't stack up against the truth, from Heathrow runways to knife crime. 

I read somewhere that in USSR time there was a word for a lie that everyone knew was a lie - perhaps Slobo can help me out. Now we have caught up with the Commies. Maybe Slobo is partly right - socialism does indeed end up in totalitarianism, but then so does everything else !

You may be interested in a recent BBC World Service Trending podcast https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csyvmx. The blurb from the "Show More" link is:

"Six years ago, when he was a curious, guitar-playing student, Kal Turnbull started a subreddit – a section of the website Reddit - called Change My View. He encouraged people to post their opinions and invite other users to politely argue against them.

It took off, and now has more than 700,000 subscribers. And now Kal wants to take the idea beyond Reddit, with a new website – ChangeAView.com – which just launched."

It is an experiment on how to structure polite online discussions.  The podcast itself is less than 30 min long.

[jeremyrh]

You may be interested in a recent BBC World Service Trending podcast https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csyvmx. The blurb from the "Show More" link is:

[...]

It is an experiment on how to structure polite online discussions.  The podcast itself is less than 30 min long.

Thanks - I'll check it out.  I've been participating in internet forums since the days of USENET Newsgroups, and there have always been some places that were bear-pits, but the level of discourse does seem to have plummetted in the last couple of years.

[Rob C]

Thanks - I'll check it out.  I've been participating in internet forums since the days of USENET Newsgroups, and there have always been some places that were bear-pits, but the level of discourse does seem to have plummetted in the last couple of years.

I think it's worse recently because of the world stage: the Trump victory has opened floodgates and given voice to emotional responses once absent - or if not absent, then not as polarized - from everyday life. I think Brexit has done exactly the same thing: no halfway house can exist.

[Robert Roaldi]

I think it's worse recently because of the world stage: the Trump victory has opened floodgates and given voice to emotional responses once absent - or if not absent, then not as polarized - from everyday life. I think Brexit has done exactly the same thing: no halfway house can exist.

Related to this is this sad/funny story https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/cafe-frida-files-complaint-police-posters-far-right-1.5202757. The report tells about some far-right protesters who plastered the outside of a vegetarian restaurant with signs in support of Quebec's Bill 21. For those who don't know, the bill forbids the wearing of religious symbols by public employees (loosely defined). For some reason these clowns targeted a vegetarian restaurant, a bizarre choice, but obviously they felt emboldened to do so by the "signalling".

Odd that the foot soldiers in the white supremacy movement never seem to be who you would choose to stud the herd.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I think it's worse recently because of the world stage: the Trump victory has opened floodgates and given voice to emotional responses once absent - or if not absent, then not as polarized - from everyday life. I think Brexit has done exactly the same thing: no halfway house can exist.

Maybe it's because the stakes are higher/being raised?

Irreversible Climate Change tipping points,
Mass migration due to failed regimes and climate change,
The proliferation of (Nuclear) Weapons,
Unstable/Oppressive regimes,
Change of World leadership towards China,
Increased (eye-witness) visibility of wrongdoings by use of Mobile Phones,
etc.

The Powers that were, have a lot to lose and they are losing it.

Cheers,
Bart

[RSL]

You live in a world of hurt, Bart. Sorry to hear that. I see you're only 18. When you grow up things may look better.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

You live in a world of hurt, Bart. Sorry to hear that. I see you're only 18. When you grow up things may look better.

Not really, I just don't live in your bubble...

But then maybe you'll enjoy this article from the UK:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7220335/Britains-man-says-Trump-inept-Cables-ambassador-say-dysfunctional.html

The point is not so much what an Ambassador has to say about the Trump administration, but who leaked the confidential messages?

The houses of cards are crumbling.

Cheers,
Bart

[Robert Roaldi]

Maybe it's because the stakes are higher/being raised?

Irreversible Climate Change tipping points,
Mass migration due to failed regimes and climate change,
The proliferation of (Nuclear) Weapons,
Unstable/Oppressive regimes,
Change of World leadership towards China,
Increased (eye-witness) visibility of wrongdoings by use of Mobile Phones,
etc.

The Powers that were, have a lot to lose and they are losing it.

Cheers,
Bart

According to Steve Pinker and others, we're far better off now than we used to be. In the past we'd kill each other by the millions and millions of others would die from preventable causes. But we're largely denied that spectacle of slaughter these days so men have to get their fix of misery by being twerps on the internet. Women don't seem to need to do this as much.

[Alan Klein]

I'm disappointed how some people want to shutdown the other side when they disagree with their points of view.  It's a sad day for free speech and free thought. What's the point of having a forum?  You might as well shut it down.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

But we're largely denied that spectacle of slaughter these days so men have to get their fix of misery by being twerps on the internet.

The twerps come in different flavors, e.g. those who express their insignificance by grandstanding/insulting and those with a mission to disrupt. Thank goodness there are also those who try to do beneficial things, but they are often hard to notice by the overall low Signal to Noise ratio (and it's the noise level that causes the problem).

Cheers,
Bart

[RSL]

But then maybe you'll enjoy this article from the UK:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7220335/Britains-man-says-Trump-inept-Cables-ambassador-say-dysfunctional.html

That's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time, Bart. Thanks for the link. It's obvious the poor guy needs professional help.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

That's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time, Bart. Thanks for the link. It's obvious the poor guy needs professional help.

Well, he's your President ...