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Author Topic: The American Constitution  (Read 80772 times)

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #300 on: June 08, 2019, 09:34:05 am »


2. America is a land of immigrants,

Shhh... Don't tell Trump !!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #301 on: June 08, 2019, 09:38:12 am »

Shhh... Don't tell Trump !!

He married one.

jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #302 on: June 08, 2019, 10:11:07 am »

He married one.

I guess when you're busy grabbing pussy, you don't worry about a passport.
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PeterAit

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #303 on: June 08, 2019, 10:44:26 am »

He married one.

Melania? The hairdo with legs?
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #304 on: June 08, 2019, 11:38:19 am »

Rob, why is it that the British socialized medicine doesn’t have enough own doctors and nurses? You guys are that dumbed down by Benny Hill or beer to graduate in medical fields? Or is it that, when medicine is socialized, the state determines how much is enough? And for that much (or rather little) only third-world medical staff finds it attractive?

AFAIK, the problems start in school, with the public (I know, not in the posh sense of public which, perversely, means private) offering being held down due to money, lack of good parenting in many cases - usually connected problems, but not always - and the general greyness of spirit that came into its own post-war, except for that brief window of the 60s, where those who could made the best of it, and the rest just carried on watching tv and feeling more and more out of it.

Throw in a strong labour union movement that was often communist-powered, if denied (I was in industry for some years and had first-hand confrontations), and incentives to throw out and change the lowly status quo are few and far between if folks are true believers in it. So, the base from which to pick the better brains is not overly huge. Then there's the cost of university if you don't happen to be Scottish. The educational services are there, but prohibitively expensive for many. Watching my granddaughters' graduation ceremonies, it's an eye-opener to see how many Chinese students there are, how many picking up advanced degrees. I have heard that those kids are very hard-working and that much sacrifice has often been made back home to offer them the chance to study, so they do. Good for them! As with in America, some stay and others do not. Opportunity is not only in the West, and increasingly, neither is all the big money.

Lower down the ranks, but as vital in their rôles, are the nurses as well as the cleaners, but again, the NHS has not got unlimited funds, and faced with an ever more self-induced incidence of food-realted illnesses, demand on the sevices grows faster than the money coming in, and pay packets have to be kept low in comparison to some others. Throw in a society where it can sometimes pay you more not to work, and there you go. I had a brief - very - chat with my new doctor on this; she wanted to go to Australia but, according to her, she'd have had to work for free for two years. She told me that medical salaries are far lower in Spain than in Britain, but hey, the lifestyle is better. She spoke as a doctor, so probably had a comfortable background just to get there. Not always the case with the nurses, many of whom work in Britain, but relatively fewer are making the trip, Brexit making them afraid, not just physically, but long-term, career-wise. As I've mentioned  before, one granddaghter is a doc and works in a hospital in Manchester: she tells me that without the foreign input, the British system will have to call in the Automobile Association to fix it. Or to haul it to the scrapyard.

And think of it: less than 4% unemployment in Britain, I believe. Doesn't compute sensibly.

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #305 on: June 08, 2019, 01:53:43 pm »

I had a brief - very - chat with my new doctor on this; she wanted to go to Australia but, according to her, she'd have had to work for free for two years.

Rob, either she was misinformed or you misunderstood. My eldest daughter moved to Australia about a year ago, first to Perth and now, as a psychiatric trainee, Melbourne. Neither she nor any of her British colleagues has worked for free; in fact, her pay, hours and conditions would be the envy of any equivalent junior doctor in the NHS (unless, like my middle daughter, rather better-paid by the Forces).

Jeremy
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #306 on: June 08, 2019, 01:55:19 pm »

Melania? The hairdo with legs?

That is as unhelpful, not to say as misogynistically discourteous, a comment as has appeared in this thread to date, and it oversteps the mark. Consider yourself warned.

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #307 on: June 08, 2019, 01:58:46 pm »

Rob, either she was misinformed or you misunderstood. My eldest daughter moved to Australia about a year ago, first to Perth and now, as a psychiatric trainee, Melbourne. Neither she nor any of her British colleagues has worked for free; in fact, her pay, hours and conditions would be the envy of any equivalent junior doctor in the NHS (unless, like my middle daughter, rather better-paid by the Forces).

Jeremy

Could it be the English language and education system is the difference? I assume Rob was talking about a Spanish doctor. They would need to recertify their degree, and that is where "working for free" comes. Not really working for free, but spending two years on recertification, while not working, i.e., not receiving a salary. I heard a similar reason for my Serbian doctor friends thinking about immigrating to Canada.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #308 on: June 08, 2019, 02:05:39 pm »

That is as unhelpful, not to say as misogynistically discourteous, a comment as has appeared in this thread to date, and it oversteps the mark. Consider yourself warned...

In the interests of gender equality, I suggest that women should have equal rights to be insulted as men. If her husband can be freely referred to as "orange buffoon," surely we can call his wife anything we want. She should not have a free pass just because she is a woman. That would be sexist, no?

Not that I condone that jerkish remark about my (former) compatriot, but rather against characterizing it as misogynistic.

If one wants to joke about Melania, at least do it with some class, intelligence, and humor, like this foreign language school in Croatia:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 02:19:00 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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D Fuller

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #309 on: June 08, 2019, 05:09:06 pm »

I said if the government forces all doctors to accept lower payments and not allow them to opt out, something that is not currently done, many excellent prospective doctors will decide not to go into medicine.  So the overall quality of doctors doing medicine will diminish. 

I'm sure some will find other ways to make a living, but many? Well, that's pure speculation, and it ignores any reason for choosing a career in medecine other than the salary.


Regarding results in America compared to other countries, I suspect this has a lot to do with variables due to DNA, racial, ethnic and cultural differences as America is an immigrant nation.  So some groups fare better than others, but the overall results does not show that most Americans actually get very good medical care that saves lives and makes them more productive.  Other countries have a more homogenized populace.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find medical result statistics in America broken out by these variables.  I think they're deliberately hidden to politically press for single payer medicine.  I'd like to see statistics broken out by race, ancestry, geographic area of the country (ie southern vs eastern vs plains states, etc).  By each of the 50 States. etc.  I think the statistics would be quite revealing and results quite variable than a single number for the whole country. .

I suspect that the results depend on poverty rates, obesity, and teen-age pregnancy, which are much higher in the US than in other wealthy nations. All three of those contribute to early death and/or poorer health. Health care is expensive in the US—roughly twice as expensive as in the next 11 wealthy nations, and that keeps people from going to the doctor when they need to. Our insurance system is designed so that primary care is expensive because deductibles have increased tenfold in the past two decades, and the majority of Americans have very little cash reserves so primary care gets put on a credit card.

As you write here, "most Americans actually get very good medical care that saves lives and makes them more productive." Why in the world would you not favor all Americans being more productive, even if you don't care about extending their lives?
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Tony Jay

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #310 on: June 08, 2019, 06:00:00 pm »

I had a brief - very - chat with my new doctor on this; she wanted to go to Australia but, according to her, she'd have had to work for free for two years.
This statement is fundamentally false!
Nobody works for free in Australia...

She may have been referring to the fact that her qualifications would not be directly recognised in Australia and that she would need to undergo a period of supervised training before being able to practise independently.

However, during this time, depending on the level of seniority that she was given she would be paid EXACTLY the same as any other doctor working at that level of seniority!

So, let's cut out the misinformation shall we...
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #311 on: June 08, 2019, 06:19:16 pm »

This statement is fundamentally false!
Nobody works for free in Australia...

She may have been referring to the fact that her qualifications would not be directly recognised in Australia and that she would need to undergo a period of supervised training before being able to practise independently.

However, during this time, depending on the level of seniority that she was given she would be paid EXACTLY the same as any other doctor working at that level of seniority!

So, let's cut out the misinformation shall we...


Well, I can only tell you what she told me.

I have no agenda to knock Australia.

Rob
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 06:32:05 pm by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #312 on: June 08, 2019, 06:24:12 pm »

Rob, either she was misinformed or you misunderstood. My eldest daughter moved to Australia about a year ago, first to Perth and now, as a psychiatric trainee, Melbourne. Neither she nor any of her British colleagues has worked for free; in fact, her pay, hours and conditions would be the envy of any equivalent junior doctor in the NHS (unless, like my middle daughter, rather better-paid by the Forces).

Jeremy

Could be; but I wonder if being Spanish, i.e. non-British has something to do with it. Might be a language problem - can't tell you. My own granddaughter had a brief spell there last year, I think it was, but I think she was on some kind of exchange or like that. At any rate, she's supposedly returning there at the end of summer. I envy her her mobility.

Rob
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 06:30:15 pm by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #313 on: June 08, 2019, 06:29:35 pm »

Could it be the English language and education system is the difference? I assume Rob was talking about a Spanish doctor. They would need to recertify their degree, and that is where "working for free" comes. Not really working for free, but spending two years on recertification, while not working, i.e., not receiving a salary. I heard a similar reason for my Serbian doctor friends thinking about immigrating to Canada.

Yes, of course she's Spanish - I thought that was clear. I don't think she'd have misunderstood - she is a highly educated lady, after all. Your parallel with your Serbian doc friends makes sense. Perhaps it's an internationally accepted system of safety checks, which can't be a bad thing for anyone. The two-year time scale fits perfectly. So yeah, no earnings for two years, which kinda puts the kibosh on anyone but the independently wealthy.

Rob
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 06:35:50 pm by Rob C »
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #314 on: June 08, 2019, 08:56:11 pm »

I'm sure some will find other ways to make a living, but many? Well, that's pure speculation, and it ignores any reason for choosing a career in medecine other than the salary.


I suspect that the results depend on poverty rates, obesity, and teen-age pregnancy, which are much higher in the US than in other wealthy nations. All three of those contribute to early death and/or poorer health. Health care is expensive in the US—roughly twice as expensive as in the next 11 wealthy nations, and that keeps people from going to the doctor when they need to. Our insurance system is designed so that primary care is expensive because deductibles have increased tenfold in the past two decades, and the majority of Americans have very little cash reserves so primary care gets put on a credit card.

As you write here, "most Americans actually get very good medical care that saves lives and makes them more productive." Why in the world would you not favor all Americans being more productive, even if you don't care about extending their lives?

Sure, some people will go into medicine anyway even if earnings are projected to decrease.  But isn't that true of people who want to become photographers today despite how more difficult it is to make a living? Frankly, in both cases, people will select other fields.  It's the laws of economics.  As salaries decrease, less people want to make the sacrifice. 

Sure, medical care and all sorts of other social services would be great to increase.  Let's spread the money around.  But America has a $1 trillion dollar deficit this year.  We've got a $22 trillion debt.  The Federal government is broke. The states are broke too.  Where does the money come from?  Maybe we can take it from the $1.7 trillion Biden plans to spend on infrastructure.  Oh wait.  Where is that money coming from?

Tony Jay

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #315 on: June 08, 2019, 09:03:02 pm »

Yes, of course she's Spanish - I thought that was clear. I don't think she'd have misunderstood - she is a highly educated lady, after all. Your parallel with your Serbian doc friends makes sense. Perhaps it's an internationally accepted system of safety checks, which can't be a bad thing for anyone. The two-year time scale fits perfectly. So yeah, no earnings for two years, which kinda puts the kibosh on anyone but the independently wealthy.
With due respect to Slobodan he is no expert here, certainly not to comment about requirements for foreign medical graduates to practise in Australia!

As someone who is a medical doctor (originally qualified in South Africa) and therefore needed to go through the process of getting full registration in Australia - exactly the process your Spanish doctor was talking about - I have some real knowledge and insight here!

There is no unpaid work in Australia - simply does not happen!

Sometimes medical graduates come from countries (but really it is the specific medical school that counts) where their qualifications have no recognition in Australia at all. In this situation prospective doctors MUST pass the equivalent of a medical school exit examination in Australia before they practise at all - even under supervision...

I doubt this applies to your Spanish doctor since I am not aware of any Spanish medical school that does not enjoy provisional recognition in Australia...

So, I suggest desisting from commenting and speculating about issues with which you are all wholly unfamiliar - and, dare I say it, ignorant!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #316 on: June 08, 2019, 09:52:32 pm »

Tony, i have a prescription for you as a medical professional: take a chill pill.

James Clark

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #317 on: June 08, 2019, 10:30:21 pm »

Melania? The hairdo with legs?

FWIW, my parents’ social circle and hers overlap slightly, and she’s thought to be a decent woman whose main concern seems to be keeping her son out of the Trump circus.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 12:19:53 am by James Clark »
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Tony Jay

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #318 on: June 08, 2019, 11:49:50 pm »

Tony, i have a prescription for you as a medical professional: take a chill pill.
You are hardly the person to dish out advice to anyone...
It doesn't stop you of course - stick to photography: at least you do know something about that...
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #319 on: June 09, 2019, 02:15:07 am »

He can barely speak English and has an extremely limited vocabulary. Something on the order of fifth grade. Probably the reason he appeals to his base - order white men without a college education.
he is effective with Twitter, but that doesn't require coherent writing.
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