Nixon and UBI

[amolitor]

Here's an interesting article on Universal Basic Income, which turns out to be.. kind of surprising. Studies cited in this piece suggest that it does not work out the way you'd expect, at all.

https://thecorrespondent.com/4503/the-bizarre-tale-of-president-nixon-and-his-basic-income-bill/173117835-c34d6145

In short: Nixon (yes, that guy, the Republican maniac) pressed HARD for a universal basic income, but was thwarted by some lousy science from the 18th century and some meathead Ayn Rand followers who thought that Free Markets Solve Everything.

Also note that Nixon signed the EPA in to law.

It's interesting to note just how far the "center" has moved since 1969.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... the Republican maniac) pressed HARD for a universal basic income, but was thwarted by some lousy science from the 18th century and some meathead Ayn Rand followers who thought that Free Markets Solve Everything...

From the article:

"Most vehemently opposed, however, were the Democrats."

[amolitor]

Yeah, isn't that interesting?!

We kind of think of our understanding of the politics of the GOP and the Democrats as pretty much the same over the decades, except if you go back FAR ENOUGH to like reconstruction, then they're kind of reversed, but maybe only in the south. But it's not quite true. But the idea that Nixon was some kind of whacky leftie is anathema, and, in essential ways, TRUE.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Contributing to the thread a more recent UBI experiment:

"Finland’s Basic Income Trial Boosts Happiness, but Not Employment"

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/world/europe/finland-basic-income.html?save=nyt-gateway-stories

[DougJ]

There is a lot of "stuff" (not intended derogatively) on UBI and the various other names under which it travels published within the last ten years
Google Guy Standing and/or look for Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN) web site.
Ciao,
Doug

[BernardLanguillier]

It may make sense to read Harari's recent takes on the deep upcoming influence of AI technologies on our world.

UBI will soon not just be a theoretical option anymore. It will likely soon be the only solution to avoid facing a massive revolution led by the hundreds of millions who will be jobless or having to jail many many people...

Cheers,
Bernard

[Robert Roaldi]

It may make sense to read Harari's recent takes on the deep upcoming influence of AI technologies on our world.

UBI will soon not just be a theoretical option anymore. It will likely soon be the only solution to avoid facing a massive revolution led by the hundreds of millions who will be jobless or having to jail many many people...

Cheers,
Bernard

It's interesting to speculate that if AI renders most people's labour unnecessary, why would we still need capitalists and captains of industry? What value added would they provide in such a society? Many of them would no longer be needed as well.

There was an experiment in UBI carried out in the province of Manitoba, Canada, in the 1970s (https://www.cbc.ca/archives/the-1970s-experiment-with-a-guaranteed-annual-income-1.4769701). I have no special knowledge of it, I remember that it was a temporary social experiment but that after it was concluded, all the documentation was sealed and ignored (for no special reason that I remember) until a researcher found them and studied the findings. A lot of interesting findings emerged out of the data, I think, but we really need to know the long-term effects. The one thing that everyone jumps on, the "free rider" problem, was not especially onerous, but it's difficult to predict if that finding scales.

We have free rider problems in all our systems now, of course, there's no reason to speculate that it would worsen, but that's just speculation. It will be interesting to see how a major one in retail, shoplifiting (which we have learned to manage and tolerate so well that we rarely hear anyone even mention it anymore) changes with the advent of "Amazon" shopping. The desire to get away with not paying will not go away, I suspect, just evolve.

My point is that for those who are worried that some participants will not use the UBI in a constructive manner but rather sit at home and watch TV, that will undoubtedly happen. It happens now. People cheat on insurance claims, taxes, they shoplift, etc.

But I am not sure what labour means anyway. A lot of the work that people already do is invented by us. Except for farmers and construction workers (food and shelter), and maybe medicine, how many of the jobs that we do now are that "necessary"?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

It's interesting to speculate that if AI renders most people's labour unnecessary, why would we still need capitalists and captains of industry? What value added would they provide in such a society? Many of them would no longer be needed as well...

Unless AI becomes so advanced as to create the next equivalent of the first iPhone, we will still need people for that.

[DougJ]

Re the Manitoba experiment, Evelyn Forget is the lady who found the "forgotten" boxes of files and her publications focus on what these data reveal about the experiment and the circumstances of the experiment.

Just as an example of her work I offer that which can be found at the following link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322988457_CONTEMPORARY_BASIC_INCOME_EXPERIMENTS_IN_HISTORICAL_CONTEXT

Ciao,
Doug

[Robert Roaldi]

Re the Manitoba experiment, Evelyn Forget is the lady who found the "forgotten" boxes of files and her publications focus on what these data reveal about the experiment and the circumstances of the experiment.

Just as an example of her work I offer that which can be found at the following link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322988457_CONTEMPORARY_BASIC_INCOME_EXPERIMENTS_IN_HISTORICAL_CONTEXT

Ciao,
Doug

Thanks very much.

[Alan Klein]

Nixon was a Quaker.