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Author Topic: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction  (Read 2836 times)

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2019, 08:37:45 am »

When I first learned to drive a car behind the iron curtain, one part of the course and exam was a technical section where we had learn and demonstrate knowledge of the internal combustion engines, including ignition, coil, carburetor for 2 stroke, 4 stroke and diesel cars. Surprisingly, most westerners didn't have a clue about these things. But they knew how to start the engine, press a brake, and pilot the car to the nearest fast food restaurant or to a drive-in movie theatre.
The father of a childhood friend of mine used to explain how automobiles work by saying, "You pour water in the front and gasoline in the back and they mix in the middle and make the car go."   ;)
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2019, 08:40:43 am »

Same as the black hole phenomena.
I don't need to know the physics behind it, but my preference is not to eat anything with black holes.

Eat or be eaten ...  ;)

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

32BT

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2019, 08:45:33 am »

You certainly don't need to know physics to be a good photographer, but you do need to know physics to talk about physics. Even if you are a photographer.

I don't know unicorns, never seen one for real, but this post proofs, beyond reasonable doubt, that I can talk about them just fine... Of course, whether I can talk about them meaningfully, is an entirely different matter, but for youtube videos that has never been a criterium, as far as I know.

Now, if we could only find an expert on the subject...
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~ O ~
If you can stomach it: pictures

jeremyrh

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2019, 09:03:23 am »

The father of a childhood friend of mine used to explain how automobiles work by saying, "You pour water in the front and gasoline in the back and they mix in the middle and make the car go."   ;)

A tragedy for him that YouTube hadn't been invented at the time - he'd have been a star !!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2019, 09:25:54 am »

He thinks that diffraction is caused by photons being attracted to the aperture blades, interacting with the electrons of the atoms of the material making up the aperture...

Thanks, Bill.

And the true reason is....?

jeremyrh

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2019, 09:54:58 am »

Thanks, Bill.

And the true reason is....?

It's the way waves interfere when they're obliged to squeeze through a little hole :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egRFqSKFmWQ
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2019, 11:53:27 am »

It's the way waves interfere when they're obliged to squeeze through a little hole :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egRFqSKFmWQ

Yes, and it boils down to light being less, or more, obstructed and thus being gradually forced to slow down and change angle of direction. It can also help to think of it as pressure which spreads out behind an obstruction.

Basic refraction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6OA_jvnwus

and Diffraction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GIwQ_QQ9uA

Cheers,
Bart
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Chris Kern

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2019, 08:22:39 pm »

He thinks that diffraction is caused by photons being attracted to the aperture blades, interacting with the electrons of the atoms of the material making up the aperture. Unsurprisingly, he says that scientists don't really understand this bit. That would be because it's wrong.

Thanks, Bill.
And the true reason is....?

I thought by now everybody understood that diffraction is caused when the shutter snaps, and creates a vacuum that sucks up many of the lightsicles.

Rob C

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2019, 01:23:40 pm »

I thought by now everybody understood that diffraction is caused when the shutter snaps, and creates a vacuum that sucks up many of the lightsicles.

Sorry, Chris, I've been napping: has somebody here contradicted what you just wrote?

If they have, they must be crazy: it's painfully obvious you are right. I think I read about that some time ago in Popular Mechanics.

;-)

LesPalenik

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2019, 03:45:53 pm »

I always knew that. But is it true also for the mirrorless?
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2019, 05:13:36 pm »

I always knew that. But is it true also for the mirrorless?
For Mirrorless the lightsicles obviously are sucked in the opposite direction.
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Rob C

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2019, 05:34:10 pm »

For Mirrorless the lightsicles obviously are sucked in the opposite direction.


What, you mean back up the stick?

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2019, 07:19:25 pm »


What, you mean back up the stick?
To get the answer to that you will have to buy my new book, which will be titled "How you, too, can misunderstand even more technical issues than Tony Northrup."  The answer is on page 79241.    ;D
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LesPalenik

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2019, 09:36:56 pm »

One thing is sure. Tony's youtube channel is getting a lot of traffic coming from this site.
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2019, 11:21:16 pm »

One thing is sure. Tony's youtube channel is getting a lot of traffic coming from this site.
Not from me he isn't. I can make up my own technical fictions without his help.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2019, 04:17:17 am »

For Mirrorless the lightsicles obviously are sucked in the opposite direction.

That makes a lot of sense. Any physicist worth his salt will confirm that when light is reflected from a mirror, it bounces off at the same angle in the opposite direction. Well, unless you project it through a really tiny opening.

So if without mirrors the light travels more direct and much faster, now you can use slower lenses. That must be why also Canon and Nikon are switching to mirrorless technology and to the new F4 lenses rather than the old-fashioned F2.8 variety. I'm sure that researching this new trend would yield a lot of valuable data for a white paper project. Or a new youtube video.
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bassman51

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2019, 07:31:41 pm »

He thinks that diffraction is caused by photons being attracted to the aperture blades, interacting with the electrons of the atoms of the material making up the aperture. Unsurprisingly, he says that scientists don't really understand this bit. That would be because it's wrong.

It’s almost (but not actually) worth watching to hear him say stuff like this.

I recall watching a video of his when I was looking for a new tripod, where he slagged twist-tighten legs and preferred the tabbed legs.  It seems he couldn’t be bothered to actually tighten the collars and - surprise - the legs kept extending as he carried the tripod.  It was pretty painful to watch.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2019, 03:34:18 am »

I stopped believing a thing he says when I realized how incredibly biased his reporting on the Nikon Z system was (even if some comments were factual)...

There are a few scary things in life... the fact that this guys has a million subscribers is one of them...

Now, I want to think that most of the them watch him like you watch a Mr. Bean video, with the understanding that the comic isn't intended in his case.

Cheers,
Bernard

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2019, 09:27:45 am »

Yeah, better to watch some gardening clips or how to convert a van to a camper.

Great advice. My wife could watch the former, and I could watch the latter. No joking, since she is into gardening, and I have visions of trudging down the SW coast of Portugal in a camper!

KMRennie

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Re: Tony Northrup misunderstands diffraction
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2019, 11:53:51 am »

Slobodan I will try and answer your question. There are 2 simple ways of explaining light and how it acts, (corpuscular aka small particles (photons)) and (waves). Scientists pick the model that explains the phenomena and use it to predict what would happen in different circumstances, this also gives a handy test to see if the model (hypothesis) holds true. Theories that explain diffraction, refraction, reflection have been in place since the 17th Century. Diffraction is easily understood if we think of light as waves, trying to use the photon model leads to ever more complicated fudges with rubbish like photons are attracted to electrons in the aperture blades as they pass close to them. What is argued by Tony Northrup is that photons pass through the middle unmolested leading to the centre of the image being sharp and photons passing close to the blades are bent leading to blurring, ok this makes sense but close the lens down and predict what happens, less go through the centre so the central area is still sharp but this area will be smaller than when wide open. Also more of the light will be passing close to the edges of the aperture so the non central part will be increasingly more blurred as the lens is further stopped down. Unfortunately for Tony N this is simply not the case, as we stop down the edges become sharper in reality. He is also wrong with his diagrams of how images are formed on the sensor showing that he has forgotten his high school Physics. All of the Optics theory needed to design lenses was understood by Huygens in 1670. His theory however would not explain how light produces signals in sensors or how do we get noise in the shadows even if we are using the latest and greatest sensor from Sony or Phase One for that you need to think of photons. What is difficult to understand is how can light behave as a wave in one instance and as a particle in another and the answer is that it is neither but behaves is both in different circumstances but I will leave you with that question because I spent 4 years studying Physics and although I could answer that question the enquiring mind would ask “but why” and this would quickly lead to increasingly weird and wonderful theories and ever more complicated mathematics and the limit of my knowledge. Sorry if this sounds like a teacher talking. Ken
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