Brexit Encore

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

The step you missed is that the UK CHOSE to move to that regime. The EU didn't do anything.

But they can choose how they are going to react: friendly or hostile.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Two points:
1. Wales is 20 mile across the Channel from mainland Europe. 

You might want to check Google Maps, but maybe the mileage it shows is fake.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I understand there are going to be tough times ahead.  But complaining how bad it's going to be and throwing up your hands in anguish isn't going to help.  GB is going to be faced with all sorts of trade issues with Europe.  But trade is a two-way street.  If Europe punishes GB, there will be retaliation. I think the EU understands that.  If they don't, then a quick tariff on European goods sold in BG will wake them up.

You are missing the main point.  The EU is not retaliating against the UK, they UK is inflicting this pain themselves.  they are leaving a customs union whose entry products will now have to be negotiated.  I have seen very little in the press about how those negotiations are going (if they are going at all).  The UK needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK.  Look at the financial services industry that is already moving out of London.  the EU equivalent of our FDA was headquartered in London is now in Amsterdam with several thousand high paying jobs gone.  Manufacturing is leaving as well and I think the Nissan plant in the north of England may be closing as a result.  This will go down in history as one of the great self-inflicted wounds ever.

[faberryman]

I understand there are going to be tough times ahead.  But complaining how bad it's going to be and throwing up your hands in anguish isn't going to help.  GB is going to be faced with all sorts of trade issues with Europe.  But trade is a two-way street.  If Europe punishes GB, there will be retaliation.  I think the EU understands that.  If they don't, then a quick tariff on European goods sold in BG will wake them up.

Remind me. The upsides to the UK from Brexit are what exactly?

[Rhossydd]

I have seen very little in the press about how those negotiations are going (if they are going at all).

Stalled and not happening.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Indeed. And an agreement has been drafted. It just hasn't been ratified because of UK politics.

It hasn't been ratified because a majority of the lower house of Parliament refused to endorse it. You can call that "UK politics" if you like; I prefer to call it representational democracy in action. There are very real, fundamental objections to the loss of sovereignty implied by the Northern Irish backstop. You might or might not agree with them, but your agreement isn't necessary for them to be valid.

Jeremy

[jeremyrh]

But they can choose how they are going to react: friendly or hostile.

Which part of this is causing you a problem? They aren't acting friendly OR hostile. The UK chose to leave and be like other non-EU countries, so it has to accept the rules. If you leave the golf club, it means that you can no longer play golf on that course. Simple enough!

[Rhossydd]

It hasn't been ratified because a majority of the lower house of Parliament refused to endorse it.

For those that haven't followed this issue properly, it's probably worth pointing out that the 'agreement' that wasn't acceptable to Parliament, wasn't a trade deal at all. It is just an agreement on what would happen on the day we leave and how existing commitments would be honoured, how borders would function, what sort of trade arrangements would exist whilst being re-negotiated, how citizens rights and travel would change, how disputes would be resolved etc etc.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Which part of this is causing you a problem? They aren't acting friendly OR hostile. The UK chose to leave and be like other non-EU countries, so it has to accept the rules. If you leave the golf club, it means that you can no longer play golf on that course. Simple enough!

Funny example. Let's see. You decide to leave your golf club mid-year, but you already paid your membership for the whole year. The club has two options: to tell you to f-off or to give you back a prorated fee. The former deters anyone else from leaving (punitive), the latter is fairer and incentivises new members to join. It is the club choice. Friendly or hostile.

[Rob C]

Funny example. Let's see. You decide to leave your golf club mid-year, but you already paid your membership for the whole year. The club has two options: to tell you to f-off or to give you back a prorated fee. The former deters anyone else from leaving (punitive), the latter is fairer and incentivises new members to join. It is the club choice. Friendly or hostile.

Slobodan, as with all good clubs, they have a waiting list that is years long. Europe did not tell Britain to fuck off; Britain decided both to fuck off away from Europe and do a similar service for itself by doing so. It is a self-inflicted wound that in the military should get you court-martialed.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Europe did not tell Britain to fuck off...

Nor I said that. I said after a club member decides to leave, the club has two options, one of which is to tell the member to f-off regarding his request for a prorated refund.

As in a divorce, it behooves both parties, even the one not guilty of any wrongdoing, to seek an amicable solution, rather than give most of their money to lawyers. It has been known that some would even torch the house and car just so the other side doesn't get it, even if that would mean a destruction of property for both or even jail for the perpetrator.

So, even if the EU is not guilty of anything, it still behooves it to handle the separation as friendly as possible, not causing wide-spread food and drug shortages and recession on both sides.

[faberryman]

So, even if the EU is not guilty of anything, it still behooves it to handle the separation as friendly as possible, not causing wide-spread food and drug shortages and recession on both sides.

I'm sure the EU will be happy to sell as much food and medicine as the UK wants to buy. The delays will be at the UK end as they have to inspect the goods and collect tariffs, effectively raising prices and causing shortages for its own citizens. It is the UK shooting itself in the foot, a self-inflected injury. It's got nothing to do with the EU being vindictive.

[Alan Klein]

You might want to check Google Maps, but maybe the mileage it shows is fake.

You're being petty and pedantic. I was comparing the difficulty between the minimal distance Wales has to ship their lamb to the continent vs. what Australia has to do halfway across the earth.  I guess they didn't discuss this kind of nuance in college.

[Alan Goldhammer]

You're being petty and pedantic. I was comparing the difficulty between the minimal distance Wales has to ship their lamb to the continent vs. what Australia has to do halfway across the earth.

When accurate data exists, you should use it. 

[Alan Klein]

When accurate data exists, you should use it. 

You're missing the forest through the trees. No one cares about a hundred miles.  It's got nothing to do with my comparison. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

You're missing the forest through the trees. No one cares about a hundred miles.  It's got nothing to do with my comparison.

I'm not missing any forest or any tree, just pointing out the obvious.

[Alan Klein]

Whatever. 

[Rob C]

Whatever. 

Well now, that's a refreshing change of debating style!

:-)

[Alan Klein]

Trump, Boris Johnson discuss Brexit, trade issues in Monday phone call

It seems Trump has been reading my posts:
"Great discussion with Prime Minister @BorisJohnson today. We talked about Brexit and how we can move rapidly on a US-UK free trade deal. I look forward to meeting with Boris this weekend, at the @G7 in France! — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 19, 2019"

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458020-trump-boris-johnson-discuss-brexit-trade-issues-in-monday-phone-call

[jeremyrh]

It seems Trump has been reading my posts:

Reminds me of the joke about the ant and the elephant.