Problem with 255/255/255/ white border showing up in prints...?

[Dinarius]

For some photographs, in Photoshop I extend the canvas size of the image in Image/Canvas Size, creating a white border around the image.

I then use this white border to type text onto which becomes part of the printed image.

My problem is this...

Rather than ignoring this white border and printing only the black text that appears outside the image, I'm getting an extremely faint rendering of this white border. It's almost exactly the same as the paper white and can really only be noticed if it's pointed out and viewed at an angle.

How can I put text onto an extended canvas that will only print the text and nothing else?

Thanks.

D.

[henrikolsen]

Could it be a clear coat like a gloss optimizer you are seeing?

[mcbroomf]

I'd suggest making the extended area transparent instead of white

[Dinarius]

I'd suggest making the extended area transparent instead of white

Thanks for the replies.

Definitely not a gloss optimizer.

Making canvas extension transparent sounds like a plan. In Image/Canvas Size, I seem to have to choose a colour.

So, how to I increase it transparently?

Many thanks!

D.

[mcbroomf]

Maybe you have the image as Layer 0 and it's locked (padlock on the layer to the right of the thumbnail)?  If so click on that to unlock it and the extension should be transparent (the colour options are grayed out)
If that doesn't work them make a new transparent layer under the image and extend that, although if you flatten it before printing the extension turns white.

[TonyW]

Thanks for the replies.

Definitely not a gloss optimizer.

Making canvas extension transparent sounds like a plan. In Image/Canvas Size, I seem to have to choose a colour.

So, how to I increase it transparently?

Many thanks!

D.

Just make sure you choose white.
 
White is equal to paper white and should be no different to printing transparent areas.  Your inkjet does not print white (unless it is specialised) so if it is not gloss optimiser then the printer is actually seeing colour.  You can try if you wish to enlarge the canvas by selecting the crop tool and dragging the handles outwards to increase as required.  In this case you will see the familiar checkerboard pattern indicating no colour.

What rendering intent are you picking for your printing Relative or Perceptual?  Other such as Absolute could give you similar to your description. 
Are you sure you are selecting your correct paper profile and also making sure that you disable printer colour control if allowing PS or LR to print?
What happens with a different paper and profile?

[Dinarius]

Thanks.

I'm using Relative.

I double check all colour management and paper profile settings.

The prints are perfect. It's just this tiny issue which, as I say, would have to be pointed out to you.

I have been choosing white to date for canvas extension, and it reads 255/255/255 in Info. So, no issues there.

I too would have assumed that this would print as nothing - i.e. leave me with just the paper white around the image and my added text.

For what it's worth, the images including canvas extension are within the A3 paper area. i.e. there is pure white paper left all around the canvas extension.

Thanks.

D.

[mrenters]

It could be that your ICC profile is bad. I had one from a manufacturer a couple of years ago that printed white as a light gray.

Martin

[Dinarius]

  You can try if you wish to enlarge the canvas by selecting the crop tool and dragging the handles outwards to increase as required.  In this case you will see the familiar checkerboard pattern indicating no colour.

Is it possible to use Image/Canvas size to extend the canvas (as I have been doing to date) but with that checkerboard pattern, instead of white? I can't see how, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

D.

[Dinarius]

It could be that your ICC profile is bad. I had one from a manufacturer a couple of years ago that printed white as a light gray.

Martin

That's a thought.

The printer is old and Hahnemuhle would have no reason to update the profile.

D.

[mcbroomf]

Is it possible to use Image/Canvas size to extend the canvas (as I have been doing to date) but with that checkerboard pattern, instead of white? I can't see how, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

D.

This didn't work?

"Maybe you have the image as Layer 0 and it's locked (padlock on the layer to the right of the thumbnail)?  If so click on that to unlock it and the extension should be transparent (the colour options are grayed out)
If that doesn't work them make a new transparent layer under the image and extend that, although if you flatten it before printing the extension turns white."

[TonyW]

Is it possible to use Image/Canvas size to extend the canvas (as I have been doing to date) but with that checkerboard pattern, instead of white? I can't see how, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

D.

I do not know of any way to use Image>Canvas size work any differently, you must select your size first then the canvas extension colour to be applied, either from the presets or your own custom colour.

Have you actually printed on any other paper using any other profile and if so are the results OK or are you getting some colour in what should be the paper white areas? 

Making the assumption that this is the same printer I think the problem likely related to your issues with muddy reds in this thread
https://forum2.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=129844.0

[nirpat89]

I do this to all my photographs.  Never saw the border showing up in the prints.  So what is going on.

Put a color sampler (sample size of 1 pixel) somewhere on the border.  It should read 255/255/255.  Now do "Convert to Profile" to the profile and accompanying conditions that you are using for the prints.  Check the reading of the color sampler.  It should still read 255/255/255.  If  not, you have a problem with the profile.

[Wayne Fox]

not sure if it’s a profile problem, just because the profile maps 255/255/255 to some extremely light grey, that could easily be how the profile was intended to operate. If the profile is trying to map the pure white to “white”, couldn’t the profile be trying to offset a color cast in the paper base?

I do not know of any way to use Image>Canvas size work any differently, you must select your size first then the canvas extension colour to be applied, either from the presets or your own custom colour.

you only pick a color if the background layer is locked.  If you unlock that layer, then Canvas Size grays out the Canvas Extension Size option and what is added will be transparent.

I think this is the best way for the OP to accomplish what they are trying to do.

[digitaldog]

not sure if it’s a profile problem, just because the profile maps 255/255/255 to some extremely light grey, that could easily be how the profile was intended to operate.

That shouldn't be. Not without an Absolute Colorimetric intent which unless one's proofing to match another white, shouldn't be used.

[Doug Gray]

I do this to all my photographs.  Never saw the border showing up in the prints.  So what is going on.

Put a color sampler (sample size of 1 pixel) somewhere on the border.  It should read 255/255/255.  Now do "Convert to Profile" to the profile and accompanying conditions that you are using for the prints.  Check the reading of the color sampler.  It should still read 255/255/255.  If  not, you have a problem with the profile.

Yep, by far and away the easiest way to check that a profile doesn't convert (255,255,255) to anything else. Only, as Andrew pointed out, do not convert using Abs. Col.  But Perc. or Rel. with or without BPC should always convert to 255,255,255.

[Dinarius]

Two comments.....

1. Wayne's solution is best for me since it allows me to input exact dimensions into Canvas size. Easier than dragging the crop tool, even if I can have exact dimensions with it too. (Never knew I had to unlock the layer to do this. So, learned something new.)

2. If increasing canvas size using white, as I have been doing, means that the printer will then print a pure white colour; doesn't it follow that if this white isn't exactly the same white as the paper white surrounding it (my image area doesn't fill the paper area) which it isn't, that there will be a visible difference between them? Or should the printer/paper profile be converting that pure 255/255/255 of the Canvas Extension to a white that will match the paper?

I'm guessing it is converting the 255/255/255 to the paper white, because in the case of my Epson paper, you can really only tell the difference between the white surround and the actual paper white because of the different textures.

Thanks.

D.

[Garnick]

There's a very easy way to accomplish a transparent border, which in theory should not add any colour density, whether gray or any other colour.  Add the canvas size as usual and the colour is irrelevant.  Use the
Magic Wand tool to select the border.  Use the Magic Eraser tool and with one click of the mouse you will have a transparent border.  You will then notice that the Background Layer is unlocked, but to not lock it again.
If you want a white border while typing just add another layer below the image layer and fill it with white.  Either turn that white layer off or simply trash it before printng.

Gary

[Garnick]

Another thing you have to keep in mind Dinarius is that your printer is NOT capable of printing "WHITE", since it does not contain white ink.  In essence, 255,255,255 means - "NOTHING".  In other words, there's nothing there to print.  Of course the printer will still go through the procedure of printing as usual, but no ink is being applied in that area of the image.  This becomes very evident with an image printed on one of the "Glossy" papers such as Gloss, Semi-Gloss, Luster etc.  Any area of pure white will have no ink applied and will become noticeable against an area with ink, thus the reason for Gloss Optimizers used in some printers.  Here's an experiment you can try.  In Photoshop, create a new document with white fill, no particular size, but large enough to see what's happening.  That doc will of course be the background layer.  Right click on the background layer and choose "Layer from Background".  That will open a dialog in which you can name that layer, just leave it as Layer 0 and click OK.  Use the Marquee tool to select half of the document.  Use the "Magic Eraser" to make half of the doc transparent.  Print that document.  The printed sheet should not exhibit any ink density in ether half of the image area, since both halves are "printing" NOTHING. 

Gary       
   

[digitaldog]

Paper white IS white.