Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 10   Go Down

Author Topic: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets  (Read 20974 times)

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1282
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2019, 09:11:12 am »


...And another point that coincides with your observations. I worry about overfitting. With too many patches the profile is at increased risk of overcompensating resulting in potentially visible changes if one happens to run across an overcompensated region. My sense is that the smallest number of patches needed for a given printer/paper combo will generally yield better results than just using a very large number of patches. Especially w/o duplicate patch averaging but that gets tedious fast. Using duplicates of 4k patches starts to get painful. Even with an iSis. Hence the search. Duplicates of a good, working, optimized 957 patch set is doable and not painful.


Mark Linquist, John Dean, and I have been working collaboratively on pushing the ICC profiling envelope to extremes with very high patch count targets. A few months ago I started building "nested grid" charts that put the RGB spacing frequency in these charts on steroids 8). The biggest one we have printed and measured contains 10445 patches, obviously an insane level to try without an automatic scanning spectrophotometer, but our Z3200 printers have them built in. You cue up the target, and go do something else for a few hours, and the Z3200 chugs along happily (well most of the time) in a corner!

I have been curious about overfitting and other possible glitches as well when using these supersized charts, but at least on the Z3200, these large patch counts don't seem to hurt the outcome at all, and indeed seem to keep improving the Z's color and tonal output in very subtle ways. Grayscale neutrality is superb, and the B&W prints one can make in full color mode using these supersized charts is in a league of its own.  Whether the 10,445 patch is noticeably better than results generated from a smaller nested grid chart (e.g., I made one with 1887 patches) is what we are trying to quantify next (both objectively with metrics and subjectively by using our eyeballs!), but these nested grid targets do noticeably improve Z3200 output compared to the Atkinson 12>3 1728 patch color chart. So, at least for our Z's, nested grid color charts show clear benefits.

BTW, the Aardenburg nested grid color charts were built just as you described at the beginning of this thread and what Graeme Gill also describes as "body centered cubic" designs. Great minds think alike?? ;) Anyway, I build them with the value offset technique and other value filtering methods using a combination of Excel and Patchtool to create these "color charts on steroids".

Later today, I will try to start a new thread on the Aardenburg/Linquist/Dean Z3200  ICC profiling collaboration and also share more info about the nested grid method. In the meantime, attached is a photo showing Mark L.'s Z3200 after printing a 9460 patch nested grid color chart, and more printed charts hanging on the wall in the background. We have been busy! The three nested grids are clearly revealed in the Z3200's print of the 9460 color chart on the table in the foreground.

all the best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 09:35:34 am by MHMG »
Logged

John Nollendorfs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 623
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2019, 11:36:55 am »

Cudos for you guys on working on this project. I will be powering up my Z3200 shortly, and will be interested in trying one of the higher patch profiles in the near future. The  closeout price on the Z3200 of $2500 was half the price of a automated profiling  machine, plus you got a printer that has the longest  lasting pigmented inks on the market. I see that B&H still has the 24" model available for $2500.
Logged

howardm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1984
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2019, 01:49:34 pm »

Actually, I just peeked and it's $1999.  Da*n tempting but I really cannot justify (like THAT ever mattered :D )

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4344
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2019, 02:50:12 pm »

Actually, I just peeked and it's $1999.  Da*n tempting but I really cannot justify (like THAT ever mattered :D )
I would not have any where to put it!!!!
Logged

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1282
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2019, 03:16:48 pm »

Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2197
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2019, 02:40:11 pm »

I've been doing so work with very small patch sizes ranging from 4 grid points to 8 and comparing them to packed grids with the same outer grids. This was done with the Pro1000 using Canon MP101 Matte paper which shows significantly less variation between patches printed with the same color but in different locations compared to Costco (or other) glossy paper. The Pro1000 with matte paper is not somewhat linear but, importantly, it have very smooth curves. As a result one can make very good profiles using surprisingly small patch sets. In particular, a packed grid of 4x4x4 with an internal, centered grid of 3x3x3 produced, with only 91 patches, quite a good profile. Prints using the 91 patch profile are only barely distinguishable from ones produced with my 12x12x12 + additional neutrals totaling 1914 patches.

Description of attached chart:
The top row compares packed in single grid profiles over the full gamut. The bottom row compares only neutrals L* from the black point to 100 in Rel. Col. The bottom histograms are lumpy because only a small number of patches participate in creating the profile's response over neutrals. Also, the dE00 numbers are larger because dE00 actually amplifies differences in and near neutrals while strongly attenuating differences in most other areas of the gamut. dE00 is more representative of human visual sensitivity which is higher in the neutrals. The bottom row truncates the histogram at dE00 > 1 while the top row extends to 3.0.

Observations:
Packed grid profiles produce excellent neutrals compared to standard, single grid profiles. The 91 patch profile varied from the 1914 patch profile by an average dE00 of only .52! over the full gamut. And the neutrals, which are much more sensitive to dE00, were .64.  The single grid patch set with similar performance required 343 patches.

Generally, Packed, N,  patch sets produce better overall results compared to similarly sized , single N+1, patch sets with one grid. But packed patches significantly improve neutral accuracy.
Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2197
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2019, 01:19:24 am »

Added CGATs files for a large range of center packed patch targets with sizes from under 100 to 14k. There are two sets. One in RGB order, the other randomized but they contain the same data. They can be downloaded from this post:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=129380.msg1098608#msg1098608

Logged

rasworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 473
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2019, 03:01:20 pm »

I have some initial results using two of Doug's patch sets in i1Profiler, profiles and test print visual evaluation.  Printer is Canon Pro-100, paper is Canon Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss.

I started with Doug's 8/7 set, 890 patches, because it is close to my i1Profiler auto generated 905 patch profile.  No problems creating profile, using an i1Pro UV cut (M2) instrument, sticking with Version 2 icc.  ColorThink Pro shows a close match on the profile internals.  Made a test print with my standard (PrinterEvaluationImage_V002_ProPhoto.tif), no discernable difference to one made with my 905 patch profile.  I paid close attention to the neutral strips, again can't tell any difference, both look neutral to my aging eyes.  Also the DG87 soft proof was equivalent to my 905 profile, that is to say very good.

Secondly used Doug's 6/5 set, 376 patches, on a single letter size sheet, cranked out under same conditions.  To my surprise, no discernable difference on the test print, again paying close attention to the neutrals.  The profile internals matched, with a slight difference in gamut volume.  And the soft proof was equally good.

I realize this data is non-quantitative and only two sample points, but so far so good.  I'm particularly impressed with the results from the 6/5 376 patch set, either there is magic in Doug's algorithm or I have a very "smooth" printer, maybe both.  Seems to me I've been wasting paper and ink!

Richard Southworth
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2019, 03:32:01 pm »

Most interesting Richard - makes me all the more interested in generating the one of these that Doug recommended to me. Time is coming.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2197
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2019, 01:10:27 am »

BTW, There is a kind of built in profile quality check that can be performed with these packed arrays. Each centered patch is equidistant (except for rounding error in the 8 bit version) to the 8 corners of the cube it is centered on. Consequently, simply averaging the 8 Lab values of the 8 corners and comparing it via a dE to the centered patch Lab value provides an excellent set of quality metrics of the whole patch set. This is, in fact, a relatively simple job in Matlab but probably doable with some effort in Excel with VBA.

I have created a patch set that incorporates all of these from N=4 to N=9 which fits on 4 iSis Letter size targets. It's interesting to see the improvements as N increases on the same paper with my  printers.

A further improvement can be made by adding a finer mesh to the near neutrals as MHMG has discussed. I have done this in the past with some success to improve my 9800's performance with near neutrals for good B&W using standard color profiles. That's going to be my next focus as the larger performance over the color gamut is quite good.

I've added a print out of the stats for the center dE76 and dE00 packed grids running Costco Glossy on my 3 printers and MP101 matte on my Canon Pro1000. Note that the matte performance is significantly better than the glossy. I've found this is also true for general profile accuracy. Matte using Canson's Photo Rag has shown similar improvements and it has a white point around L=98. Also no OBAs unlike Canon's MP101.

The columns on the left are the full gamut. The ones on the right are only the neutrals. The neutrals are more irregular as there are much fewer centered patches in each set only (7 to 15). So they are not monotonically improving but this is simply a statistical variation due to the limited sample set. Also dE00 is much more sensitive in the neutrals as can be seen as sometimes the dE00 is larger than the dE76.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 10:28:54 am by Doug Gray »
Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2197
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2019, 12:48:31 am »

I made a packed patch set with an N=8 outer grid, N=7 inner grid which left 102 unused patches to fill out the 957 patches in a single letter page iSis set.

So I then used a Pro1000 profile I'd made earlier to generate a set of 102 actual (not device) neutral RGB values evenly spaced and added it to the fill out the set. Printed and made a profile from it.

Theory being that this set would provide closer points on the real neutral axis and result in a better profile. It in fact did. On a separate set of patches from L=3 to 95 (the paper's gamut limits) the average dE00 over the neutrals was improved from .56 to .35 which is excellent for a 957 patch set.

So now my patch strategy is:

1. Create a packed set of patches for each printer/paper type(glossy or matte). Looks like the N8 set which fits on a single page is pretty good. N10 needs 2 sheets, N13 needs 4 sheets but it's not clear how much of an improvement these would bring.

2. use a previously generated profile for the printer/paper type from the iSis default set to create device RGB values along the actual neutral axis and add these to fill out unused space.

This creates new profile patch sets tailored to optimize neutrals while giving good performance in the rest of the gamut. These sets need to be created for each paper type/printer combo but the same one can be used for similar types on the same printer. For instance glossy and luster or MP102 and Canson Photo Rag.
Logged

dehnhaide

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 87
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2019, 03:43:54 am »

I made a packed patch set with an N=8 outer grid, N=7 inner grid which left 102 unused patches to fill out the 957 patches in a single letter page iSis set.

So I then used a Pro1000 profile I'd made earlier to generate a set of 102 actual (not device) neutral RGB values evenly spaced and added it to the fill out the set. Printed and made a profile from it.

Theory being that this set would provide closer points on the real neutral axis and result in a better profile. It in fact did. On a separate set of patches from L=3 to 95 (the paper's gamut limits) the average dE00 over the neutrals was improved from .56 to .35 which is excellent for a 957 patch set.

So now my patch strategy is:

1. Create a packed set of patches for each printer/paper type(glossy or matte). Looks like the N8 set which fits on a single page is pretty good. N10 needs 2 sheets, N13 needs 4 sheets but it's not clear how much of an improvement these would bring.

2. use a previously generated profile for the printer/paper type from the iSis default set to create device RGB values along the actual neutral axis and add these to fill out unused space.

This creates new profile patch sets tailored to optimize neutrals while giving good performance in the rest of the gamut. These sets need to be created for each paper type/printer combo but the same one can be used for similar types on the same printer. For instance glossy and luster or MP102 and Canson Photo Rag.

Hi Doug,

One, maybe OT question: when printing the targets on your Canon what print quality settings are you chosing among "standard / high / highest (where available)" and is this supposed to make a huge difference in the results?

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4344
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2019, 08:56:01 am »

I made a packed patch set with an N=8 outer grid, N=7 inner grid which left 102 unused patches to fill out the 957 patches in a single letter page iSis set.

So I then used a Pro1000 profile I'd made earlier to generate a set of 102 actual (not device) neutral RGB values evenly spaced and added it to the fill out the set. Printed and made a profile from it.

Theory being that this set would provide closer points on the real neutral axis and result in a better profile. It in fact did. On a separate set of patches from L=3 to 95 (the paper's gamut limits) the average dE00 over the neutrals was improved from .56 to .35 which is excellent for a 957 patch set.

So now my patch strategy is:

1. Create a packed set of patches for each printer/paper type(glossy or matte). Looks like the N8 set which fits on a single page is pretty good. N10 needs 2 sheets, N13 needs 4 sheets but it's not clear how much of an improvement these would bring.

2. use a previously generated profile for the printer/paper type from the iSis default set to create device RGB values along the actual neutral axis and add these to fill out unused space.

This creates new profile patch sets tailored to optimize neutrals while giving good performance in the rest of the gamut. These sets need to be created for each paper type/printer combo but the same one can be used for similar types on the same printer. For instance glossy and luster or MP102 and Canson Photo Rag.
I think this is similar to my approach of using Argyll to generate a precondition profile and then the second profile using added neutrals with the appropriate Argyll command.  Of course I only have an i1 Pro so I have to keep the patch numbers manageable.  I still haven't had an opportunity to do the neutrals test that you outline earlier in this thread but will get to that as I'm curious what my results look like. 
Logged

vikcious

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2019, 01:38:57 pm »

Hi Doug,

One, maybe OT question: when printing the targets on your Canon what print quality settings are you chosing among "standard / high / highest (where available)" and is this supposed to make a huge difference in the results?

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1
Logged
|| One screw-up is a mistake, two screw-ups is a trend, three screw-ups is a style ||

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2197
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2019, 05:40:54 pm »

I use the default "high" and dual direction settings with the Pro1000. I have spent considerable time with the 9800 and found little difference in gamut or same patch consistency with differing inkings, highest DPI and single direction printing. I did find significant differences changing head gap and vacuum settings and optimized those which improved 9800 color consistency.

I have not investigated changing settings in the Pro1000 but it appears "highest" is not available for the media type I'm using which is Canon Plat. Pro. and MP102 matte.

I intend to test those after I've beat this horse sufficiently and established the best protocol.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2019, 10:29:41 pm »

I wanted to test one of Doug Gray’s Packed Patch Sets relative to the X-Rite 2371 Patch Set I have been using for making profiles, following information from Ethan Hansen about which numbers of patches are optimal for building targets to use with i1Profiler. The printer and paper are an Epson SC-P5000 with Ilford Gold Fibre Silk paper. I asked Doug which of his packed sets he thought would be the best to use for this purpose and he recommended the N=10 file (1734 patches). So I created the targets from his *txt file in 1lProfiler, saved the target sheets as TIFF images, opened them in Adobe Color Print Utility and printed them using the same Media Type that I had used for the 2371 patch target (Epson Legacy Baryta). After letting the target prints dry over night, I created a profile with them and printed two verification targets with Absolute Rendering Intent: (1) my usual 24-patch (very slightly) modified GMCC , and (2) a 48 patch target I recently configured that has a good range of in-gamut RGB and CMYK colours and in particular more neutrals (to be described in detail and open for discussion in another context at a later date). I let the targets dry over night and then measured them, moved the measurements into my Excel analytic templates and examined them.

This post describes the comparative results for the two profiles (DGN10 vs XRite 2371), both for dE 76 and dE2000 and these four results for the 24 and 48 patch sets, making for a total of 8 comparisons, showing for each Average dE and its Standard Deviation (St. Dev). Hence, total 16 observations. To recall: the lower the dE and the lower the St. Dev, the more desirable the outcome. I also provide insight into Black and White tonality and neutrality.

Firstly, looking at the profile itself, the gamut volume is outstanding, at 997,526. This is the highest gamut volume I have seen with any printer/paper profile I’ve measured or created. I’ve come close with the XRite 2371 target at about 987,000 for the same printer/paper, so pretty close, but Doug’s N10 beats it by a tad. The profile shape is also very satisfactory (Figure 0, 2D representation).

Secondly, the comparative results (Figure 1):No complaints for any of it. For the most part, within each of the dE metrics, differences are on the whole quite trivial. Between dE76 and dE2000, all the dE 2000 results are lower than their comparative dE 76 results. This is normal and expected. I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.

Figures 2 and 3 show the results for the 14 neutral patches of the 48 patch set. I know the file values of these patches are completely neutral because I constructed them that way. Likewise I know the Luminance values in the target file are accurate as intended. The two questions answered in these graphs are (1) How close are the printed Luminance (L*) values to the file Luminance values, and (2) how neutral are they (or do they print with any hue bias, be it Lab a* or b* different from zero)? In the upper portion of the graph, the closer the red line (printed values) adheres to the black line (file values), the closer the Luminance values read from the print cohere with their file reference values. As you can see, the lines are almost convergent for both profiles. In the lower portion of the graphs, the closer the bars to zero (hugging the X axis), the less the hue bias. As you can see, all of them are well below 1 Lab value above or below zero, so much so, that taken together no one pair of a*,b* outcomes will likely be perceptible as non-neutral (this graph is not a dE calculation but shows the ingredients thereof - it is meant to indicate basic arithmetic departures from neutral).

« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 08:59:08 am by Mark D Segal »
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1282

Ok, so here's my problem with small dE measurements correlated as a measure of goodness to ICC profile quality.

Imagine you have two neighboring tonal elements in a digital image, both with same LAB a* and b* values (as in a perfectly neutral B&W digital file) but one tonal element is 2.0 L* units higher in lightness value (ie., 2 dE different from the neighboring element). So, there's a contrast difference denoted by 2 dE between the two tonal values, nothing more nothing less, but this is definitely a noticeable contrast gradient in the image as seen by the typical human observer.  Now consider that a print with these two tone values gets made where the profile causes the darker tone to lighten by 0.5 dE and the lighter neighboring tone to darken by 0.5 dE. You just lost 50% of the visual contrast between the two areas of interest in the printed image, but the color difference measurements (ie. dE or dE2000) indicate that both areas are below a just noticeable difference of 1dE. According to conventional dE wisdom, you shouldn't notice a problem when one patch or another is altered by less then 1 dE unit, but you will in this instance, because you are not comparing it to its former self, you are comparing it to the near neighboring value in the image.  The initial L* value differences between the two scene elements denote a real visual contrast difference between the neighboring scene elements. They just got cut in half in the printed output when the darker value rises by .5dE and the lighter one gets darker by .5 dE. The human observer does indeed notice this, but dE measurements reported on a patch by patch level fail to reveal the problem.

Just sayin... A metric which tracks visual contrast between near neighbor elements in an image (dE and its various flavors do not) is required to put this print quality narrative into perspective. I developed a metric that does this and more.  I call it the I* metric. I encourage others to try!

cheers,
mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 12:28:53 am by MHMG »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2019, 08:58:12 am »

Hi Mark,

I appreciate your arguments about the dE metric, which I have read in your articles quite some years ago, and I agree with the idea of examining differences between neighbouring values in relation to each other for understanding the impact of such differences on human visual perception. Your example above explains it pretty well.

What concerns me though are matters of relevance and context. That part of the international imaging industry and its technical committees most concerned with process control and print accuracy still, for the most part, rely on dE metrics of one flavour or another. I believe the reason rests on the objective being pursued, which is the consistency and/or accuracy with which a machine lays down a file value on paper. That is all I'm looking at in an exercise such as the one I reported above. When we are sitting in front of our monitors making prints, the front end of our work is to edit the photo to taste under softproof. I believe this is where the most important perceptual considerations need to occur. We're looking at a photo as a unified experience with all the varying contrasts and complements of tones and hues and how they relate to each other well before we press Print. Once we have all that set the way we like it, the file values or the meta data are established accordingly and we are then depending on the print pipeline (what I like to call "PPP" - printer, profile, paper) to lay down as close as possible what the file numbers or metadata say. To my mind, that means, for example, if we have set a particular small area of the photo to L*a*b* 20/0/0, and the nearest neighbour to 22/0/0, I want 20/0/0 and 22/0/0 to be laid on paper and measured as such (or close thereto as possible). This doesn't call forth a whole battery of perceptual arithmetic - in fact dE(76) is probably the most relevant metric bespoke to this purpose (but I provided dE2000 results as well because this is the current flavour many are using). The most important perceptual stuff should happen upstream of the PPP pipeline.

I've thought long and hard about which of these metrics make the most sense for the particular context I am working in, without prejudice to the merits of I* for other purposes. And by the way, while on the subject of I* - you are inviting us to try it - that's fine, but have you issued the tools and detailed instructions to make it more tractable to do so? Neither of the two papers I see on your website do that, however well laid-out the principles and illustrations are. Have I missed this implementation material somewhere?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

dehnhaide

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 87
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2019, 09:11:41 am »

I've thought long and hard about which of these metrics make the most sense for the particular context I am working in, without prejudice to the merits of I* for other purposes. And by the way, while on the subject of I* - you are inviting us to try it - that's fine, but have you issued the tools and detailed instructions to make it more tractable to do so? Neither of the two papers I see on your website do that, however well laid-out the principles and illustrations are. Have I missed this implementation material somewhere?

I must admit that reading your "duel" is more than enticing, my bread and butter these days. And I thank all of you yet again for your passionate comments.

I have read Mark's l* article and argumentation and indeed I feel like he's keeping me high up in the sky until I wanna try that story myself: learn by practice and share that gospel and preach it to myself and the others. But the lack of practical guidance kinda puts me off. I might be wrong but even in perceptual assessment practice, still, make perfect.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2197
Re: New Approach for Generating Optimal Profile Patch Sets
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2019, 12:12:10 pm »

I've thought long and hard about which of these metrics make the most sense for the particular context I am working in, without prejudice to the merits of I* for other purposes. And by the way, while on the subject of I* - you are inviting us to try it - that's fine, but have you issued the tools and detailed instructions to make it more tractable to do so? Neither of the two papers I see on your website do that, however well laid-out the principles and illustrations are. Have I missed this implementation material somewhere?

I'll third that. I also have problems with dE00. It understates the effects of small changes in areas of low luminance. Especially in large areas as dE00 is designed for visual sensitivity (JND)of two patches surrounded by L50.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 10   Go Up