cheaper substitute for canson platine

[niclas_lindergard]

Hi! Niclas here, new to this forum.
I´m a photography-based artist from sweden.
I print all my work on canson platine fibre rag.
I have a epson sp-5000 in my studio that i use to make test prints and work with the images.
When i exhibit the prints are usually bigger than my printer can handle so i work with a company who prints for me.
I wanted to ask you guys if you have any suggestion on a cheaper paper that would work for me in the early stages
when i just want to print and print so i can bring a nice file to start working with at the printing company.
Platine is a little bit warmer, the cheaper plastic papers i have come over are usually really bright white.
What papers do you guys use just to have "quick look"?
Are the proof papers you use for hard proofing before offset any good and if so what brand and make (EFI is available in Sweden) would you recommend
for me knowing that the final print will be on canson platine?

all the best!

Niclas

[howardm]

well, Platine is a cotton rag paper so you're paying a decent premium just for that.

Have you looked at any of the cellulose baryta papers (Canson or other privately labelled 'clone') ??

Maybe talk to Fotospeed in the UK?

Here in the USA, a popular Platine clone is RedRiver PaloDuro SoftGloss Rag but I tink shipping $$ will
kill you.

The Epson semi-matte proofing paper seems like an alternative.

[niclas_lindergard]

Great thanks! Yes i used Canson baryta photographicue for 3 years,
then I switched to platine because the printing company i use didin't have the baryta over 44" at the time.
The Baryta photographicue is still a bit to pricey to use for throw-away prints and tests.

Fotospeed is a great tip! according to a Swedish distributor´s (sell's both canson and fotospeed)
the fotospeed baryta and the canson baryta are the same paper.

Would be great to find the platine fibre rag cheaper with another name- i look into that, any tips greatly appreciated.
Seems like red river is hard to find in Europe as you suspected

Actually i just went out and were able to get my hands on a 17" roll of Gmg proofpaper semi matte 250g/m2.
It was cheap about 115 usd for 30m (100ft?) and could be kind of what i was looking for,
going to load it and make a profile now and we will see what happens.
I have some platine as well so I can get a feel for how they compare i terms of rendering.

Any tips on media setting? I´m choosing between
epson premium semigloss 250 or epson premium semimatte 260.
I think i will go for the semimatte, please stop me quick if you think I should use something else

all the best
Niclas

[howardm]

on my 3880 driver, there is an entry for Epson proofing paper semi-matte.  I'd start there.

Again, none/few of these papers are actually made by Canon/Epson/etc and are re-labels of
base papers, maybe with some unique coating parameters.

[niclas_lindergard]

You are right! thanks!

[howardm]

here in the US, the smallest package as I recall is a 100sh 13x19 ($80ish) and then of course rolls.

[BrianWJH]

Felix-Schoeller have the J24000 TRUE rag silk which likes very much like Canson Platine, might be a little cheaper than the Platine.

Brian.

[niclas_lindergard]

Great! never heard of , will definitely check it out!

[deanwork]

Right. Scholler coats both the Canson Platine and Epson Legacy Platine, as well as many of the othe best papers. You should compare all three in regard to price and availability. Usually the Epson branded version is cheaper in the states. Dont know about Europe.

Felix-Schoeller have the J24000 TRUE rag silk which likes very much like Canson Platine, might be a little cheaper than the Platine.

Brian.

[howardm]

Does FelixS sell retail and retail quantities?  I've always heard of them as the 600 lb gorilla of the european paper mill/finisher.  Lots of their papers get converted and re-labeled.

[BrianWJH]

One other is the Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Gloss it's very, very similar to Canson Platine as well and same weight at 310gsm, however rolls only come in 12m/40' lengths versus 15m/50' for Platine so may not be cheaper after you do the math, also not sure about the pricing in Europe.

Brian.

[deanwork]

Gallerie Gold is not cotton, does not have pigment brighteners but oba, and the bronzing, especially for black and white work is horrible. It also curles much worse than Platine.

One other is the Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Gloss it's very, very similar to Canson Platine as well and same weight at 310gsm, however rolls only come in 12m/40' lengths versus 15m/50' for Platine so may not be cheaper after you do the math, also not sure about the pricing in Europe.

Brian.

[BrianWJH]

Not according to their website, it is 100% cotton with no optical brighteners.

You might be thinking of Ilford Galerie Gold Mono Silk which is no longer available.

Brian.

[deanwork]

Brian,

Sorry, it’s been so long since I’ve used it that I see it is a totally different product now. Thanks for the info.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same Schoeller media too, not necessarily a bad thing if it is.

Is it warmer than Platine or really the same ?  I’ve got to check it out.

John

Not according to their website, it is 100% cotton with no optical brighteners.

You might be thinking of Ilford Galerie Gold Mono Silk which is no longer available.

Brian.

[BrianWJH]

Dean, probably a good chance it is a Felix-Schoeller rebranded paper, looks to have the same soft warm tone of Platine.

Brian.

[mcrepsej]

http://www.c-infinity.se/   look for MediaJet Museum Natural Silk 300 gr.
If Marco don't have it then https://www.iversencompany.dk/produkt-kat/papir-fabrikat/mediajet/mediajet-artist-line/museum-natural-silk-300-gr-m%C2%B2/
It's the Felix Schoeller paper.
You can use the icc profile for Canson Platine Fiber Rag ;-)

[Ernst Dinkla]

Hi! Niclas here, new to this forum.
I´m a photography-based artist from sweden.
I print all my work on canson platine fibre rag.
I have a epson sp-5000 in my studio that i use to make test prints and work with the images.
When i exhibit the prints are usually bigger than my printer can handle so i work with a company who prints for me.
I wanted to ask you guys if you have any suggestion on a cheaper paper that would work for me in the early stages
when i just want to print and print so i can bring a nice file to start working with at the printing company.
Platine is a little bit warmer, the cheaper plastic papers i have come over are usually really bright white.
What papers do you guys use just to have "quick look"?
Are the proof papers you use for hard proofing before offset any good and if so what brand and make (EFI is available in Sweden) would you recommend
for me knowing that the final print will be on canson platine?

all the best!

Niclas

It is quite long ago that I refreshed SpectrumViz so this should be taken with some salt.

The Spectral Plots of the paper white come close for about 6 papers. I am quite sure Felix Schoeller is the real source for more reasons. The cooperation between Canson and FS has been published and there was even a business award given for that cooperation. Of one of the other clones I got first hand information that FS is the manufacturer. Whether it helps in lower pricing in the EU is harder to predict. More than a few users have seen identical result in the prints on the papers mentioned.

I added a spectral plots of Alpha Cellulose papers with a similar white point, the Arca cotton version as the reference. In this case I think Sihl could be the coating facility used for the non-Arca varieties. I did not check the textures for resemblance. No idea whether the print results will be the same.

Of the RC paper the Epson Proofing White Semi-Matte is one of the few RC papers that are that warm/neutral. The spectral plot differs at the left though. There is UV absorption but not the usual peak in blue that OBA papers produce. Surface works different too. A Canon version with more OBA in the paper base comes close. Arca + Canson as the reference added.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Rand47]

Brian,

Sorry, it’s been so long since I’ve used it that I see it is a totally different product now. Thanks for the info.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same Schoeller media too, not necessarily a bad thing if it is.

Is it warmer than Platine or really the same ?  I’ve got to check it out.

John

Not only that, but Gold Fibre Gloss is extremely “flat” compared to the other choices, no curling whatsoever.  I quit using Epson Legacy Platine because the corners are so extremely curled that even with the platen set to its max, I still got head stikes on the corners unless I carefully folded them downward.  GFG is a really lovely paper.

Rand

[niclas_lindergard]

Wow! Thank you so much for all the information!
so nice to find a place with this level of knowledge, my mind is blown!
/N

[nemophoto]

Unfortunately, ALL the cotton rag papers like Platine have skyrocketed. I'm not sure why. I always printed on Museo Silver Rag, Innova Warm Cotton Rag (now know as Exhibition Cotton Gloss) IFA-45 and Canson Platine. But in 13x19 (Super A3/B) they are all breaking the bank at close to US$100. I had a large stock of most of those, but it's now dwindling.

The RedRiver paper isn't bad, but as someone said, the cost of shipping would probably boast it significantly. The only other paper I use regularly is Moab. The Juniper Baryta Rag might be available in Europe. Direct from the manufacturer here it's about US$85/25-sheet box 13x19. I have a box of that which I sometimes use. I like it, though the other three above are my go-to papers.