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Author Topic: New York City last week  (Read 5939 times)

Ray

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2019, 03:44:13 pm »

Eric,
Maybe Photoshop has more processing options than LR. Here's my version of your image, using Canvas Size, Free Transform, Perspective, Distort, Warp and Fill.

I've tried to maintain as much of the original content in the image as possible. Whether the result is aesthetically pleasing is another issue, but at least it looks more natural, in my view.  ;)

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2019, 04:18:48 pm »

You two are going to make me abandon architectural photography for good :D

Rob C

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2019, 04:20:17 pm »

Hey Rob,

Why don't you just take out a huge loan and buy up a million or so Euromillions tickets.
Maybe one of them will win.

Eric


Too easy, Eric: I have found that for myself, what's for me will not evade me and conversely, what's not will ever elude me. Now does that imply one must sit on one's hands and await the parcel's arrival? No sir! To win it, you gotta be in it! To be in it is not dependent on a zillion tickets: one ticket, blessed by the 'fluence, is all it takes.

I mentioned in my brief, recent exposé of what made me do what I did in life, the day I suggested to my beloved that she take my portfolio and go see a brewery that I'd chased for years with zero result. She did just that, having never had a thing to do with sales in her life - she was into chemistry - and came back home to make lunch, telling me I had an appointment with the Marketing Director.

She won us our second best client ever, for whom we went on to produce many calendars.

I kinda think it proved something, though I have to admit to not being absolutely sure quite what.

Rob C

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2019, 04:21:43 pm »

You two are going to make me abandon architectural photography for good :D

Never gonna happen. i hope!

Rob

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2019, 04:26:17 pm »

... I kinda think it proved something, though I have to admit to not being absolutely sure quite what.

It proved you won a lottery early in life :)

Rob C

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2019, 05:43:11 pm »

It proved you won a lottery early in life :)


That's true; what's right under one's nose is sometimes difficult to see. At least, it can easily be taken for granted until it's gone. By which time you're screwed, anyway.

It's a thing that can ride in tandem with good fortune, bringing it to an end.

 :-(

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2019, 05:59:29 pm »

You two are going to make me abandon architectural photography for good :D
No way!Your architectural stuff is the best I've ever seen.
My own specialty is snapshots of tilting buildings.   ;)
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-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2019, 06:01:17 pm »

I kinda think it proved something, though I have to admit to not being absolutely sure quite what.
It proves that the woman is the brains of the enterprise. That's true in my case too.
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2019, 06:10:52 pm »

Eric,
Maybe Photoshop has more processing options than LR. Here's my version of your image, using Canvas Size, Free Transform, Perspective, Distort, Warp and Fill.

I've tried to maintain as much of the original content in the image as possible. Whether the result is aesthetically pleasing is another issue, but at least it looks more natural, in my view.  ;)
Impressive, Ray, but I have two quibbles:
1.  Your version fits the classical view camera aesthetic, with all parallels truly parallel, but the problem is it loses the emotional effect of looking at tall buildings from a narrow street at ground level. The top of the building is much farther away from the viewer than is the bottom, so it should look smaller to convey the big city tall buildings feel.
And 2. I think my snapshot isn't worth spending that much time in Photoshop. I'll agree that I should have straightened it as Slobodan did.
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-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

Ray

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2019, 07:09:51 pm »

You two are going to make me abandon architectural photography for good :D

Oh My Gawd! Don't tell me you've been photographing leaning skyscrapers all over the place.  ;D
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2019, 08:23:26 pm »

Oh My Gawd! Don't tell me you've been photographing leaning skyscrapers all over the place.  ;D

You have no idea!

Some are so tall that you can literally see the vanishing point ;)


Transamerica Pyramid, San Francisco
by Slobodan Blagojevic, on Flickr

Ray

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2019, 10:16:42 pm »

You have no idea!

Some are so tall that you can literally see the vanishing point ;)


Transamerica Pyramid, San Francisco
by Slobodan Blagojevic, on Flickr

Good photo, but I don't see any leaning buildings, as in Eric's shot.  ;)
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2019, 12:31:26 am »

But shouldn't the two sides be parallel?   ;D  :D
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Rob C

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2019, 03:37:53 am »

You have no idea!

Some are so tall that you can literally see the vanishing point ;)


Transamerica Pyramid, San Francisco
by Slobodan Blagojevic, on Flickr

Finally: the definitive photograph of the Ku Klux Klan Prayer!

Rob

Ray

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2019, 06:27:25 am »

But shouldn't the two sides be parallel?   ;D  :D

Not in a Pyramid. Didn't you know that, mathematician?  :D ;D
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2019, 02:25:40 pm »

Here is an example to illustrate the effect of different focal lengths on "leaning" buildings. A shot done with a 56mm lens, and the same shot with a 28mm lens (both on iPhone, same standpoint). If one uses a wider angle and keep the camera parallel to the building, you can get buildings almost perfectly vertical. The price to pay is that you lose a half of the pixels, if the composition does not require the bottom part. Megapixel cameras would come handy, of course.

Ray

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2019, 04:12:18 pm »

There's a distiction to be made between a building which has sides which are converging towards the top, producing a sense of height from the perspective of the viewer at the base, and a building which is leaning like the Leaning Tower of Pisa, and looks as though it is in danger of toppling over.
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Rand47

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2019, 10:56:13 am »

Ray, have you actually been in NY? I can understand how from a down-under perspective, where a two-story building is considered a skyscraper, this might look strange, but if you ever find yourself in a big city, you would realize that, when you lift your head, buildings do converge. It is called perspective, you know. Discovered already in the Renaissance.

Yup... and isn’t it interesting that we’re only bothered in the vertical, but railroad tracks going toward the horizon and converging don’t bother us at all.  Same exact thing. If you want to freak out your brain, take a photo of said tracks and make them perfectly parallel going off into the horizon (the way they “actually do,” i.e. remain parallel). 
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Rand Scott Adams

Ray

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2019, 09:27:31 pm »

Yup... and isn’t it interesting that we’re only bothered in the vertical, but railroad tracks going toward the horizon and converging don’t bother us at all.  Same exact thing. If you want to freak out your brain, take a photo of said tracks and make them perfectly parallel going off into the horizon (the way they “actually do,” i.e. remain parallel).

There seems to be a lot of confusion on this issue. The greater the distance of any observed object from the viewer, the smaller that object appears to the viewer. This is how we can estimate the distance of any object. The human mind gradually develops from birth and early childhood to automatically understand this. The size of recognizable objects enables us to determine the distance between ourselves and those objects.

The average house viewed from a distance of a few hundred metres looks as small as a child's doll's house. However, I doubt that anyone would confuse such a house at a distance, with a doll's house or a small accurate model of a house which is situated much closer. This is because there are so many recognizable objects between the house in the distance, and the viewer, and each of these objects between the house and the viewer, such as grass, trees, fences, or railway lines, also look smaller in proportion to their distance from the viewer.

Both the camera and the natural eye will capture these effects, provided there are sufficient recognizable objects in the foreground. This means that the camera must have an appropriate focal length of lens in order to capture the objects in the foreground. However, an extremely wide-angle lens, such as 12 mm or 14 mm, will tend to unnaturally  exaggerate the size of close objects and unnaturally diminish the size of distant objects. Likewise, a long telephoto lens, or a macro lens, which excludes most of what the natural eye sees in the foreground and surrounding area, can make small objects appear huge. However, if we recognize those objects, such as a species of insect or bird, we can deduce they are not huge monsters. Also, adjacent objects such as leaves next to a shot of a bird taken with a telephoto lens, provide a clue as to the size of the bird when we are unfamiliar with the species.

The issue of objects appearing to lean to one side in a photograph, is quite different from the above issue which I've tried to explain. In the real world I get no sense of tall buildings leaning to one side when I walk through a city center with tall skyscrapers. Perhaps I am only speaking for myself. Perhaps there actually are people who do get a sense of leaning skyscrapers when they walk through a city. If that is the case, please mention it and explain how you can tell the difference between something that just appears to be leaning and something which actually is leaning, like the leaning Tower of Pisa.

As I sit here in my house, at my computer desk, I am surrounded by dozens of verticals and horizontals, such as door frames, window frames, cupboards, TV frame, wall edges, table legs, and so on. Whether I'm standing up, sitting down, or lying on the floor, all those verticals remain vertical as I view them naturally with my eyes.

However, when I look through the camera viewfinder through a wide-angle lens, those verticals change. From a lower position, kneeling on the floor, with camera tilted slightly upwards, in order to capture the top of the door and window frames, the verticals all lean towards the centre, creating the impression that each door and window frame has the shape of a pyramid. When I point the camera down, from a standing position, the reverse impression occurs, like a pyramid standing on its head. And of course, if I tilt the camera to one side, the horizontals cease to be horizontal. It's a terrible distortion, and is why Photoshop has introduced the 'distort, warp and perspective' controls, and a cropping format which can be tilted.

Now you might wonder what the reason is for this effect. After all, the camera has the reputation for capturing what the eye sees in reality.

Here's my explanation, but please feel free to correct me if you think my argument is not sound.
Einstein's Theory of Relativity is relevant here. A vertical is only vertical in relation to something else which is not vertical. The camera always introduces its own verticals and horizontals, separate from the scene, and which are imposed on every scene which is captured. In other words, it's the camera format, whether square or rectangular, which is the source of the distortion, and such format restrictions are always reproduced in the print.

The natural eye does not impose such external format restrictions. We have a central view of focus, but that view includes a wide range of 'out-of-focus' areas on all sides of the object we are viewing. We can also move our eyeballs from left to right, and up and down, without moving our head, in order to shift that focus.

Being able to distinguish between what is really vertical and what is really leaning is an essential part of human evolution.
To finish my long-winded post, I'll include an image of the Leaning Tower of Pisa (from the internet, not mine) in which the inherent distortions of the camera imply that the tower of Pisa is not leaning any more than the cathedral next to it, and possibly less.  ;D



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Ray

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Re: New York City last week
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2019, 11:12:14 pm »

However, after a bit of perspective adjustment in Photoshop, the tower appears to be leaning as one would expect.  ;)
Refer attached image.
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