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Author Topic: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation  (Read 519 times)

vikcious

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 03:44:26 AM »

It's probably a Canon problem. PPL is a stand alone application also. When I open an untaged chart file from the standalone app it converts it to: Canon lJ PPL Color 1

No offence Panagiotis but I suspect your default workspace in PS is not sRGB, is it? Cause the only thing I could think of is that "Color Space" it mentions in the PPL is the actual workspace PS is set to use. (mine is ProPhoto RGB) Though not sure if it impacts the print or not...
Could you check pls?
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Panagiotis

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2019, 03:59:59 AM »

No offence Panagiotis but I suspect your default workspace in PS is not sRGB, is it? Cause the only thing I could think of is that "Color Space" it mentions in the PPL is the actual workspace PS is set to use. (mine is ProPhoto RGB) Though not sure if it impacts the print or not...
Could you check pls?
It is sRGB but the chart is not color managed.
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Panagiotis

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2019, 03:32:03 PM »

I think I found something about Canon PSP.
The file is an untaged tiff chart from iProfiler.
Photoshop version used to open the file and send it (untaged) to the plug in is CS5.
Notice the difference in "Color Space" between PSP versions 2.1.1 (blank) and 2.2.1 (sRGB) in the following two screenshots.

EDIT: I investigated what version of the plugin was most probably Mark using in his review back in Jan 2017. It was probably version 2.1.x which was introduced to support PS CC2017. PSP suspect version 2.2.x was introduced after June 2017 to support the release of MacOS hi sierra. So maybe there is a bug in PSP later versions that make it inappropriate to print profiling targets?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 04:01:30 PM by Panagiotis »
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Doug Gray

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2019, 04:09:29 PM »

Well, After re-reading Mark's review I'm sufficiently impressed with the print capability that I've ordered the 17" baby brother.

I'm going to install it minimally then add the plug-ins. At each step I'm going to print and scan charts using ACPU, I1Profiler direct, and my null-trick. I am quite curious as to the cause of these variations and expect to learn much more by next week. Especially what works and what doesn't and detail any differences discovered.

And at the end I'll have a nice replacement for my aging 9500 II.
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Panagiotis

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2019, 04:19:58 PM »

Well, After re-reading Mark's review I'm sufficiently impressed with the print capability that I've ordered the 17" baby brother.

I'm going to install it minimally then add the plug-ins. At each step I'm going to print and scan charts using ACPU, I1Profiler direct, and my null-trick. I am quite curious as to the cause of these variations and expect to learn much more by next week. Especially what works and what doesn't and detail any differences discovered.

And at the end I'll have a nice replacement for my aging 9500 II.

It is an excellent printer. I am looking forward to read your findings and observations. I can also provide older win versions of the PSP plugin if you are interested.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2019, 06:02:18 PM »

Yes, I was going to suggest Doug that you include the older PSP as part of your testing suite, as it would be interesting to see whether it does things more properly than the newer replacement. You may have also noticed that while I used ACPU successfully on the Pro-1000 (17" model), I couldn't on the Pro-2000 (24" model). So as you proceed through the test suite, useful to bear in mind that even though the inkset and the printhead are identical for 1000/2000/4000, there are differences in software and firmware that can cause discordant behaviour.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Doug Gray

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2019, 08:17:41 PM »

Yes, I was going to suggest Doug that you include the older PSP as part of your testing suite, as it would be interesting to see whether it does things more properly than the newer replacement. You may have also noticed that while I used ACPU successfully on the Pro-1000 (17" model), I couldn't on the Pro-2000 (24" model). So as you proceed through the test suite, useful to bear in mind that even though the inkset and the printhead are identical for 1000/2000/4000, there are differences in software and firmware that can cause discordant behaviour.
Mark, after reviewing the manual I suspect this difference between ACPU and going through PSP may be due to the calibration option Canon has to tune the printer to a standard. Presumably something close to their profiles. This would have to involve a secondary mapping of profile device RGB values to the printer's hardware. Depending on where and how this additional mapping is saved and used, perhaps it is responsible for the difference between ACPU and PSP when run w/o CM? It would also likely vary printer to printer.

I intend to test this specific aspect when I get the printer.

As for the 9500 II, I'm not going to bother trying to get older PSP /window combos to run. I've never been able to get them to work in the last few years and it works fine without PSP. Let sleeping dogs .....
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 08:20:02 PM »

Great, I'll be most interested in your observations.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Panagiotis

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2019, 12:47:34 AM »

Mark, after reviewing the manual I suspect this difference between ACPU and going through PSP may be due to the calibration option Canon has to tune the printer to a standard. Presumably something close to their profiles. This would have to involve a secondary mapping of profile device RGB values to the printer's hardware. Depending on where and how this additional mapping is saved and used, perhaps it is responsible for the difference between ACPU and PSP when run w/o CM? It would also likely vary printer to printer.

I intend to test this specific aspect when I get the printer.

As for the 9500 II, I'm not going to bother trying to get older PSP /window combos to run. I've never been able to get them to work in the last few years and it works fine without PSP. Let sleeping dogs .....

If I remember correctly, PRO-1000 during initial setup asked to perform color calibration after print head alignment. PRO-4000 which I set it up two days ago didn't ask. After the head alignment was ready to print. This was a surprise to me and this is maybe a missing setup step for new Canon PRO-2000/4000/6000 owners.

I have a general idea how Canon own color calibration works. The best literature I have found is this PRO-4000 help page:
https://ugp01.c-ij.com/ij/webmanual/Manual/All/PRO-4000/EN/LBGB/tp000883.html

The are two types of color calibration: common and unique.

Only some media types can have a unique calibration. All others use the common calibration.

The least a user must do is to perform common calibration with a Canon recommended paper type and media setting. I use Photo Paper Pro Luster. This common calibration is then applied to all media types that have not a unique color calibration.

There is an application (Device Management Control) that keeps track of the calibration status of all the PRO printers on the network.

Also some paper manufacturers (Canson for example) am1x file settings for custom media (PK papers mostly) have already a calibration target generated for performing unique calibration. When these am1x files are imported to another PRO printer the user must(?) perform color calibration, for this custom media type, to set his printer to the condition the paper manufacturer printer was the time the custom media type and icc profile created. This procedure creates an unique calibration for this specific custom media type only, and doesn't affect all other paper media types. This calibration information is stored in the printer and can be used, or not, depending on settings in the printer driver or in the operation panel.

Hope this helps a little.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 07:55:16 AM by Panagiotis »
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Doug Gray

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Re: Puzzled about printing patch targets for profiles creation
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 11:18:40 AM »

Hi Panagiotis,

Thanks for the info. It's useful background. I've also been looking at the workflows in their manuals and have some specific ideas on what's going on. Canon has a rather novel, and potentially very useful, calibration process which facilitates consistency when a customer has multiple printers. Especially when using Canon specific papers the printer characterizes.

This makes for an interesting issue creating and using profiles for other papers and documentation for doing so is lacking from what I've seen so far. Specifically the interaction between making a custom profile and subsequent re-calibrations. However, their basic idea is quite good so I expect to create a workflow that will be as consistent but allow for custom profiles that could be shared across printers. At least I hope to do this.
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