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Author Topic: I tried a Custom Profile  (Read 10156 times)

digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2019, 01:35:45 pm »

That's a big claim.

Results ?I think you'd rarely see any significant quality jump in results by DIY custom profiling.

All generalizations are false, including this one.-Mark Twain

IF you simply view the video referenced earlier, you'll see that canned ICC profiles (even custom one's) vary in quality. Some of the canned Epson profiles are very good, some are not so good. That isn't a generalization, it's simply a fact based on the engine and process used to build those two sets of supplied, canned profiles.
Claim no, colorimetric proof, yes.
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rabanito

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2019, 02:48:36 pm »


I couldn't figure out why a printer (back when I had my old Canon iPF6100) seemed "off" just a tad. I was using a canned profile. I decided to do my own. i1 couldn't complete the chart. I tried numerous times including reprinting. I finally realized BECAUSE I couldn't create a profile that I had an issue going on with one of my print heads and ink. Because it was a 12-ink printer, the deficiencies were being partially masked by some of the other inks. Can you imagine if I'd sent off the profile wedge to someone, had to wait for them to make it, only to be told, we can't use this. Try again?


On the other hand, if I'd had your problem and sent the charts to the pro, they'd have told me - as you rightly say - "we can't use this"
Instead of breaking my head doing tests that brought me nowhere for months I'd changed my printer (or serviced) after realizing that the problem wasn't the profile.
That's a lot of time saving.

And BTW I think that doing one's own profile is no piece of cake. Some of us are beginners :)
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2019, 02:56:22 pm »

Only a big claim if you haven't experienced it.
I was talking about the difference between a custom printer profile from a remote service and a DIY custom profile.

Yes, I have experienced it, I do have clue about this issue, I've been running a remote profiling business for 15 years now.
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digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2019, 03:00:50 pm »

I was talking about the difference between a custom printer profile from a remote service and a DIY custom profile.
But nemophoto was not:

The freedom it gives you will be equal to what you experienced going from canned to custom.
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2019, 03:58:52 pm »

But nemophoto was not:
Actually he was. This is the full paragraph to which I replied;
"You may find your next step is not to pay someone else, but to produce your own so you don't have to wait for someone else to produce it. The freedom it gives you will be equal to what you experienced going from canned to custom."

The implication is that DIY profiling gives as big an improvement as going from 'canned' to (remote) custom. It won't, it might be a little better or it could conceivably be worse.
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digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2019, 04:02:55 pm »

Actually he was. This is the full paragraph to which I replied;
"You may find your next step is not to pay someone else, but to produce your own so you don't have to wait for someone else to produce it. The freedom it gives you will be equal to what you experienced going from canned to custom."

The implication is that DIY profiling gives as big an improvement as going from 'canned' to (remote) custom. It won't, it might be a little better or it could conceivably be worse.
There's no implication, he stated clearly The freedom it gives you will be equal to what you experienced going from canned to custom.
I see no indication he's comparing anything but a canned to a custom profile.
But even if he's comparing custom to DIY profile, AGAIN, not all ICC profiles are created equally! JUST the color engines used by various products, let alone how they produce a perceptual mapping (no rules), number of patches (and where in color space), the Spectrophotometer used, the options set in the software for the creation of the profiles. post optimization IF possible, all play a role. It's simply untrue to make generalizations about ICC profiles; custom, or canned (or custom DYI). They can greatly differ.
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2019, 04:27:38 pm »

It's simply untrue to make generalizations about ICC profiles; custom, or canned (or custom DYI). They can greatly differ.
Which was the exact point I was making.
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digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2019, 04:37:42 pm »

Which was the exact point I was making.
OK but you did state:
Results ?I think you'd rarely see any significant quality jump in results by DIY custom profiling.
Not all ICC profiles are created equally.
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2019, 04:43:25 pm »

OK but you did state:
Results ?I think you'd rarely see any significant quality jump in results by DIY custom profiling.
Not all ICC profiles are created equally.
Do you think that a DIYer is suddenly going to start building profiles that are significantly better than remote custom profiles ?
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digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2019, 05:15:30 pm »

Do you think that a DIYer is suddenly going to start building profiles that are significantly better than remote custom profiles ?
Absolutely possible.
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2019, 05:27:22 pm »

Absolutely possible.
But very unlikely.

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digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2019, 05:29:37 pm »

But very unlikely.
Not at all. Depending on all the facts I've outlined.
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2019, 05:48:54 pm »

Not at all.
You're really not being very helpful by suggesting that someone can just go and buy some profiling kit and suddenly be building profiles that are significantly better than those from professional services.

Your opinion, OK, but my experience says that's exceptionally unlikely.
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digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2019, 06:25:20 pm »

You're really not being very helpful by suggesting that someone can just go and buy some profiling kit and suddenly be building profiles that are significantly better than those from professional services.
Maybe not helpful to you. Someone can buy a profile package and build excellent profiles. Far better than other people or manufacturers profiles as I've illustrated. Many have and done so. I'm sorry if that fact upsets your business model.
Quote
Your opinion, OK, but my experience says that's exceptionally unlikely.
My experience dates to probably the very first profile & hardware package on the market, the ColorTron I dating back to the very early 90's. And many, many packages since then. Some of us have more experience than others.  :o
Some of us have more professional services than others too.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2019, 07:58:08 pm »

Do you think that a DIYer is suddenly going to start building profiles that are significantly better than remote custom profiles ?
If one has done the requisite reading and has an understanding of the software it is absolutely possible.  I've done my own profiling for the past seven years and the results are better than the manufacturers every time.  I see no need to pay someone else to do something that I can do myself.  There are others on LuLa who do the same thing. 
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2019, 03:39:56 am »

Maybe not helpful to you. Someone can buy a profile package and build excellent profiles. Far better than other people or manufacturers profiles as I've illustrated.
Any chance of actually commenting on what I've written ?

Let's repeat it again.
Do you think that a DIYer is suddenly going to start building profiles that are significantly better than remote custom profiles ?
Not OEM profiles, but better than remote custom profiles.
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2019, 03:44:29 am »

I've done my own profiling for the past seven years and the results are better than the manufacturers every time.
Not my point at all. See my last post to Andrew.
Quote
I see no need to pay someone else to do something that I can do myself.
Not in any disagreement over the ability to being able to build great profiles at home. My point was at what cost.
Economics ? For the price of a i1Profiler kit you could buy 100 custom profiles, just how many different papers will you ever use. Let's not mention the time and materials used when starting out.

For photographers that just want great prints and don't want colour management as a separate hobby, just leave it to the pros.
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rabanito

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2019, 05:01:45 am »

Not my point at all. See my last post to Andrew.Not in any disagreement over the ability to being able to build great profiles at home. My point was at what cost.
For pro photographers trying to sell prints I can imagine some use of having so many profiles.
For the wannabe artists, usually amateurs like myself, I don't see the point.
I need at least two or three good profiles. For ONE printer (mine) and some papers. Maybe I'd like to try other papers just to play, like others feed their images to AI gadgets and look what comes out but that's not serious photography IMHO

But after getting profiles for all the papers the amateur will use, there is no point in having a profiling kit, learn the procedure through trial and error (and frustration), repeating it for each new case instead of just printing the test charts as instructed, sending them per post and wait for at most a week till it arrives per email attachment. And then doing some photography with it  ;)

How often does a hobby photographer need new profiles?
And the pros? And why then?

Please correct me, I presume that my opinion is biased through inexperience.

Thanks
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Rhossydd

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2019, 05:34:07 am »

Please correct me, I presume that my opinion is biased through inexperience.
No, that's a sensible and pragmatic approach.
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digitaldog

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Re: I tried a Custom Profile
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2019, 09:21:57 am »

Any chance of actually commenting on what I've written ?

Let's repeat it again.Not OEM profiles, but better than remote custom profiles.
I did comment. You refuse to accept comments that fall outside your confirmation bias.
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