Problem with MK - P7000

[Garnick]

Hello all,

This is a problem I first noticed approximately 3 months ago but it isn't very noticeable in a lot of prints. I checked back to about 5 months ago when this Atkinson file was printed, which I do on a fairly regular basis as a reference.  I hope this will show here, but it is rather subtle unless you know what to look for.  If you check the grayscale and the ramp you it's more obvious there.  At he DMX end of both the black looks fine, but as it progresses toward the mid tones it is somehow picking up a cyan cast.  Then the cast disappears as it goes further toward the highlight end.  This scan is from a print on Epson Enhanced Matte, a paper I also most never use.  However, the same issue it exhibited on Cold and Hot Press Natural.  PK prints show NO sign of this issue at all.  Since I don't use as much MK as PK ink I'm wondering if it might perhaps be linked to the MK ink itself, but other than flushing that line and inserting a new MK cart, I have no idea how it can be overcome.  I use the Epson paper profiles for both PK and MK, so I cannot understand how the both the EnMatte and Cold and Hot Press profiles would both be corrupted suddenly and exhibit the same issues.

Gary



 

[rasworth]

I pulled your print off and examined with PS (Adobe1998 embedded profile?), can see both what you describe in the lower mid tones, and a magenta cast in the higher mid tones, although could be the scanner.  It certainly appears as if the printer and profile have slightly parted ways.  I see on the Epson website that they have a color calibration utility for your printer, have you run?

Richard Southworth

[Mark D Segal]

I downloaded your image and examined it in Photoshop with the colour eyedropper in L*a*b* mode. All of the grayscales in that target show a cyan hue bias, which is inconsistent (i.e. variable from level to level), up to the mid-tones and acceptable hue neutrality above L*50. If this does not happen with PK papers it suggests to me that printer linearization may be OK, but the profiles for those specific matte papers are not good.

[Garnick]

I downloaded your image and examined it in Photoshop with the colour eyedropper in L*a*b* mode. All of the grayscales in that target show a cyan hue bias, which is inconsistent (i.e. variable from level to level), up to the mid-tones and acceptable hue neutrality above L*50. If this does not happen with PK papers it suggests to me that printer linearization may be OK, but the profiles for those specific matte papers are not good.

Hi Mark,
Thanks for analyzing the image, much appreciated.  Had I thought of that my OP would probably have been a slightly different question, but I didn't    And of course how often would two profiles become corrupted at the same time and exhibit the same issue?  Since these profiles are installed with the driver that would necessitate trashing and reinstalling the driver.  This is a driver update which I have already downloaded, so I'll install that on one of my Boot Clones first and see if the issue disappears. 

Richard,
I'm glad the issue is noticeable to you folks and I certainly appreciate the replies.  I'm not seeing the magenta cast you mentioned on my calibrated display, but if so that would seem to indicate a cross curve issue to some point.  Although, in the "C" Print days we always referred to a cross curve as influencing complimentary colours, such has cyan and red, not cyan and magenta.  However, R and M can sometimes be almost interchangeable to the eye.  As mentioned to Mark, I will install the driver update and see what happens then. 

Gary
   

[rasworth]

After Mark's post I went back in with the dropper - magenta was a careless description, I did come up with some positive *b (yellowish) values, but per Mark's conclusion not far enough out to be unacceptable.  I'm not familiar with using the color calibration utility, there are a few words about it in the user manual, apparently the sw has to be installed and then enabled within the printer control panel.  Is there a downside to trying it?

Richard Southworth

[Garnick]

After Mark's post I went back in with the dropper - magenta was a careless description, I did come up with some positive *b (yellowish) values, but per Mark's conclusion not far enough out to be unacceptable.  I'm not familiar with using the color calibration utility, there are a few words about it in the user manual, apparently the sw has to be installed and then enabled within the printer control panel.  Is there a downside to trying it?

Richard Southworth

Hmmm.... I'm not familiar with a "color calibration utility" for the P7000 Printer or any of the printers I've used.  Please explain.

Gary

[rasworth]

Go to the Epson support page: https://epson.com/Support/Printers/Single-Function-Inkjet-Printers/SureColor-Series/Epson-SureColor-P7000-Standard-Edition/s/SPT_SCP7000SE#manuals

Select the pdf version of the user manual, and search for color calibration.  There are a couple of entries, describing the setting and calibration date.

I don't know how you obtain the utility itself, maybe it's no longer offered.

Richard Southworth

[rasworth]

Deja Vu set in, there was a thread in 2017, https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=120339.0

Not sure how you obtain the mysterious utility.  I suspect your best bet is a custom profile.

Richard Southworth

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for analyzing the image, much appreciated.  Had I thought of that my OP would probably have been a slightly different question, but I didn't    And of course how often would two profiles become corrupted at the same time and exhibit the same issue?  Since these profiles are installed with the driver that would necessitate trashing and reinstalling the driver.  ........................
Gary
   

The profiles may not be corrupted at all. It's possible that they just aren't very good profiles, or if they are good profiles then the printer is not well linearized, but if this problem really doesn't occur with Epson PK papers (right?) then it suggests linearization is OK, but those two matte profiles are not. In any case, you do not need to trash the driver to change profiles, and you have no idea whether any changes were made to the embedded profiles with the latest driver update because Epson doesn't typically say much about what changed from one driver version to another. You can get custom profiles, store them in your System-level Profiles folder and print with them, see if that improves anything.

[Garnick]

The profiles may not be corrupted at all. It's possible that they just aren't very good profiles, or if they are good profiles then the printer is not well linearized, but if this problem really doesn't occur with Epson PK papers (right?) then it suggests linearization is OK, but those two matte profiles are not. In any case, you do not need to trash the driver to change profiles, and you have no idea whether any changes were made to the embedded profiles with the latest driver update because Epson doesn't typically say much about what changed from one driver version to another. You can get custom profiles, store them in your System-level Profiles folder and print with them, see if that improves anything.

In my OP I mentioned that I first noticed this issue about 3 months ago, but it may not have been quite that long ago.  I didn't keep note of the exact date I first encountered the problem.  But this much I do know.  Before I sold the 9900 I printed the Atkinson image on every paper I use, both Photo Paper(Luster) and the Fine Art Papers.  I have used the Atkinson image for many years as a reference, along with couple of other images I've downloaded.  Once the P7000 was up and running I again printed that file on all of the aforementioned papers, as a reference between the 9900 and the P7000.  Just yesterday I checked back to the matte papers I printed then and there was absolutely no indication of this issue.  Also, as I mentioned previously, I print the Atkinson file at least monthly, both on the Photo Paper(Luster) and the Cold and Hot Press papers, just as an ongoing reference.  Before a few months ago this issue with the Matte Papers simply did NOT appear.  That's what makes this such a strange situation, at least the way I see it.  I will follow your advice concerning downloading the icc profiles that I can get separately and try those.  I don't care about the Enhanced Matte profile, since as I mentioned I hardly even use that paper.  I haven't checked the canvas profile, but I did a couple of canvases of two of my own images not long ago and there was no indication of this issue, so that profile might be OK.

Thanks again Mark,

Gary   

[Mark D Segal]

Gary,

Whatever you do, the key thing is to conduct diagnoses that eliminate probable causes until you find the culprit. The starting hypothesis is that the problem is either one of poor profiles or inadequate linearization of the printer. So one or the other or both need to be eliminated. Trying alternative profiles should help deal with that issue, while finding a linearization routine for that printer would help deal with that one. And of course - not to be neglected, calling Epson ProGraphics for advice over the phone - that's free and can be helpful.