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Author Topic: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation  (Read 3222 times)

UlfKrentz

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2019, 02:19:05 pm »

GOOD post Ulf. You are on strobes, which brand?


Im a bron guy, but I also use various off brand heads with my broncolor packs plus continuous lights, whatever suits the task best.

kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2019, 12:14:43 am »

Kirk, if you have a good link to copy Domes for the D1 please send. Coincidentally I was in Photo rental today and they said I could rent a Profoto Hardbox for a D1 but I must have a Dome and they do not rent Domes.  Also if you have a link to a good copy  link of a grid for a Magnum reflector I'll take a look. Profotos are a bit overpriced now at $300.
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Kirk_C

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2019, 05:55:00 pm »

The hardbox is designed to be used with a normal head with a clear cover glass or no cover glass. A D1 with a dome in the hardbox will mitigate it's light quality because you're starting with a diffuse light source.

I've shot with a hardbox maybe 10 times in the last 20 years. It's a point light source. With the flashtube enclosed in a black chamber so that the flashtube alone is the light source and you get the hardest light possible.

You've running into the limitation of the enclosed tube design of the D1. I'm not aware of anyone making a knock off dome.

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UlfKrentz

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2019, 06:29:50 pm »

What Kirk said. You might use a fresnel spot without the front lens. Other than that an ellipsoid, for sun like hard light I find myself using a HMI source (without reflector) often, it is a nearly perfect point source as the light is emitted between the small gap of the electrodes. Unfortunately flashtubes have to have a minimum length, so they come in ring, U shape or are kind of coiled up which all leads to a quite big light source that prevents a true hard source.

kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2019, 10:03:38 pm »

Thanks I just rented for testing a fresnel small yesterday, it was great. Though they don't make them anymore and if you find one it's $1600.00

I can understand a Canon Lens being $1600.00 but not a metal box with a slider...

Please send a link Ulf to your HMI's. I 've never used them yet, as they have always been so expensive, and I'm a strobe guy. Is you main lightning system stobe and you add the HMI is or just all one or other? What think of these very cheap HMI you can now get on Amazon. ( I think they are bought mostly for video shoots)
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Kirk_C

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2019, 05:13:45 pm »

I'm not sure what you rented but the price of a fresnel is relative to the quality of the lens, the range of the focus and how smoothly the focus adjusts and then stays put. I paid Flash Clinic in New York a couple of thousand to convert a Desiti and it was a good investment.
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kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2019, 08:04:40 pm »

Kirk, interesting. Do you think the Profoto is worth $1600.00? I just posted about this and more on a new thread, so you can answer here or there is does not matter to me:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=128787.0

It's hard to get my head around. I just see a round metal box and a tad of glass. My L Canon is 1k, 24-105, and seems like a bit more involved.  And I heard Bowen, who made the unit sold it at 1/2 price of Profoto on their Bowen brand, but can't verify that yet.
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UlfKrentz

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2019, 03:39:49 am »

AFAIK the "special items" from Profoto like the light bar and the fresnels are manufactured by Bacht in Germany. You will be able to purchase the fresnel from there, adapted to any manufacturers pack. The fresnel spots are usually handmade in smallest quantities. They use a tungsten spot as base and build an entire flash head into it. You may imagine that this has to be priced higher to make a profit than a high volume item like the canon lens you mentioned. Whenever specialised things are made in single or small series those things often seem "to expensive". That said fresnels have their place and create a unique light fall off which I like very much. I would not necessarily buy it for a hard light source though. 1600$ sounds like a bargain if were talking about the same product.
When it comes to HMI you might get a serious sticker shock. Regarding the Chinese lights, there are good and bad ones, the very cheap probably being less reliable. If you're going this way make sure you use a good lamp, preferable with UV coating. HMIs usually are rental items and can be found at a reasonable price.

kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2019, 04:21:23 pm »

Thanks Ulf.

This is the product:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/633104-REG/Profoto_100789_Fresnel_Small_Lens.html

Is it worth $1600.00 in your opinion? I do see a couple of places that might still have one new, though never heard of them..

If I could find Bowens, used you don't think I'd have big problem getting Profoto speed ring?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/200014-REG/bowens_bw_2914_fresnel_200_spot_attachment.html

If you have a link to the place in Germany you mentioned, please send.

You don't think much of the shadowy look achieved by the fresnel can be achieved with a couple of grided honycombed light?  It looked cool, but I think I've achived that look with snoots and grids..

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UlfKrentz

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2019, 05:08:35 pm »

Ok, I see. This is not a fresnel spot, just a fresnel attachment for a head. You might be happy with some of the walimex stuff, not top notch but kind of Ok for the price:
http://www.walimexpro.de/en/studio/light-former/fresnel-box/produkt/walimex-pro-fresnel-lens-box-w-univ-connection.html
Fresnels still have their place, hard to simulate with reflectors. Downside is they want to be fed with lot of energy. Cheers!

Kirk_C

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2019, 05:20:59 pm »

Ulf is correct.

Bacht not only made Profotos specialty lights they have branded their products for Elinchrom, Norman, Bowens and others.

http://www.bacht.net/cms/cms/Range-of-Products/Studioequipment/index-b-2-41-99.html

I have the Bowens fresnel modifier that was also sold under a couple of other brands including the Profoto you linked to. I paid $650 and have seen them still selling at that price occasionally. My studio is a mess as I'm just breaking down a set but I attached a quick snapshot of it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 05:25:28 pm by Kirk_C »
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kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2019, 05:39:26 pm »

Kirk, thanks.
Cool, Your link to Bacht did not have the specific Fresnel, but your 2nd link did.  Bacht made this for Bowens? I read online that Bowens made it for Profoto and then Bowens went out of business which is why Profoto no longer sells it.

$650 I'll buy!

So I should keep an eye out for Bowens 200, and what other models as well out there? How hard will it be to get the D1 speed ring on it?
Darn: Profoto just takes in and puts their name on it and it's double plus basically...

Your concur, not worth $1600?

And.. curious again:  Lighting opinion question: You think much of the shadowy look achieved by the fresnel can be achieved with a couple of grided honycombed light, snoots etc..?  Or not, something unique to the Fresnel?
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kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2019, 05:43:15 pm »

Thanks Ulf, just saw your last post. Walimex never heard of, is that the Arri here? Actually I see an Arri Fresnel for $600  600 watts or so, could be good for shooting one model, but hotter than the Profoto/ Bowens.

Can one mix strobe and spot ok/ maybe use Arri for main and then fire off Profoto strobe as background light, but maybe not good to mix Arri tungsteen with daylight..? Better to try to find used or new Profoto? and same question for you:

You don't think much of the shadowy look achieved by the fresnel can be achieved with a couple of grided honycombed light?  It looked cool, but I think I've achived that look with snoots and grids..
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Kirk_C

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2019, 07:04:22 pm »

Kirk, thanks.
Cool, Your link to Bacht did not have the specific Fresnel, but your 2nd link did.  Bacht made this for Bowens? I read online that Bowens made it for Profoto and then Bowens went out of business which is why Profoto no longer sells it.


What I was saying is that Bacht has made the true fresnels, that's what I linked to. The light on the left side in that link has been sold as a Profoto fresnel.

The Bowens is a modifier, added to the front of an existing light. They were made under contract by someone and sold under several brands. Bowens was the least expensive so there are more of them out there. They were out of production long before Bowens (Calumet) went out of business.
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kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2019, 09:49:14 pm »

Thanks Kirk, so finding used Bowens 200 will be the easiest to find?  And getting a Progoto speed ring on one is not that complicated?
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Kirk_C

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2019, 11:34:04 pm »

I don't know how many of these were made but I'm sure there are a lot more Bowens branded modifiers than there are Profoto. The back of the modifier has a collar that the particular style of mount fits into. You'd have to buy a Profoto speed ring made by Bowens or Chimera and disassemble it, take the PF collar out and have a machinist add a flange so it would fit.
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kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2019, 12:07:46 am »

Kirk, thanks, sounds like a Pita, but you say if I find one used, that is good price and condition, just buy it.. and it can be done! (probably for under $100?... machinist..) 

Chimera made this as well- the one you posted?  Any other brands let me know as that will help keep an eye out for options.
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Kirk_C

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2019, 01:08:58 am »

To get a Profoto light mount with a flange that can be extended you buy a Chimera Profoto speed ring and take the mount out of the frame. That's what you use on the back of the fresnel modifier.

You could of course do this instead.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1062270-REG/dracast_dr_lf2000b_led_200w_fresnel_bi_color.html
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kevs

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2019, 01:19:19 am »

Thanks KIrk, bit over my head the technical stuff you write..
" with a flange" don't understand that.
Take mount out of the frame. I would probably need a video to understand.  ditto "That's what you use on the back of the fresnel modifier."...

But you are saying Chimera also made a fresnel identical to the Bowens you posted?

The Dracast is nice, but who are they? Have you used or seen the unit?

I'll keep all the links though. What think about famour Arrie here only $500"

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/72020-REG/Arri_531600_650_Watt_Plus_Tungsten.html

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Kirk_C

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Re: Light subtraaction and black flag/ panel recommendation
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2019, 10:32:58 pm »

The adapt any light to Profoto you need the PF mount. See the photo I've attached.

Yes, Arri's are great lights. That one will put out 1/4 the light of the LED Fresnel I linked to, it's 2900K so you'll have to use a gel to correct it to match your D1s and it'll get nice and hot. They're called hot lights for a reason. The LED light has adjustable color temp and creates no heat. Both will work for the look you're after.
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