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Author Topic: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues  (Read 12705 times)

langier

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #200 on: July 08, 2019, 02:08:10 am »

You are right, John.

When I was flush, I made a trip with a D3, D700, 2.8 lenses, and I was a pack mule. The next trip was with more practical bodies and a bit smaller lenses and the trip after that I dragged an M43 along and left the FX in the trunk and become invisible...

Since then, it was M43 until now. What I missed was easy-to-work files, longer battery life, great high ISO files. If I were better off, I'd have a pair of each Z6 and Z7 bodies and choose my tools for my projects. But I want to simply, do with less so I went pragmatic rather than wishful this time and went with the Z6.

On a road trip, I'll probably still use the D800 bodies since the files are large and luxurious but for travel I think 24 mp is a sweet spot and my experience with the high-iso of the bodies since the D3/D700 keep me shooting in the Hail Mary lighting I now relish.

I think for your abstracts resolution isn't too critical but color is king and you'll do fine with the Z6. Even for landscape, I am happy so far with the files.

Yesterday, I traveled up the mountain to a cow-camp where my friends have had a cabin in the family since the start of the 20th century and every Independence Day they gather. I had no agenda other than to consume craft beer and eat good potluck and face time 1995 style with long-time friends (the place is about 25 miles beyond the cell-phone bars.)

I took the Z6 and a early 1950s Summarit an old friend gave me. The lens has a large, hazy, milky fog in the middle. Bingo! I created a series of cow camp portraits inside and out with this etherial lens and it's hazy, asymmetrical age fog. Totally different than the 24-70 and other modern and well-coated lenses and I like what I see which I could control well with the aperture in real time on the EVF. Absolutely different than what I normally do and I may bring it along with me on the next project to shoot for myself when I have time.

It's nice to shoot with my collection of old LTM and M-series Leica and Canon lenses without having to use a film camera, and several of these lenses add warts, fog, softness, aberrations and other anomalies to the image. I had a little taste with several of these lenses on the M43 but that format only uses the heart of the image circle and one looses the effects of the edges that can both enhance and ruin an image depending upon the subject.

A whole, new box of chocolates is now at hand with little more than a cheap, spacing adaptor!
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #201 on: July 08, 2019, 08:39:23 am »

Does LR default to different slider positions for different cameras?
Yes, for my old D300 files the settings are 25, 1.0, 25; the same for my old D810 though these were imported before I updated Lightroom earlier this year to the subscription model.  For the Z 6 it's 24, 2.0, 25 and I've read reports that some Sony cameras the amount setting was bumped up to 40.   From what I have read the change occurred with LR version 7.3.  The sharpening algorithm has not changed, just the initial import settings.  One can change these defaults so the radius of 2.0 which is usually way to high can be reset accordingly.
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KLaban

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #202 on: July 08, 2019, 09:07:20 am »

I don't use Lightroom but rather Photoshop CC and ACR.

With regards to sharpening 'defaults' I'm seeing some variation between shots on Z7 files.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #203 on: July 08, 2019, 09:45:17 am »

Yes, for my old D300 files the settings are 25, 1.0, 25; the same for my old D810 though these were imported before I updated Lightroom earlier this year to the subscription model.  For the Z 6 it's 24, 2.0, 25 and I've read reports that some Sony cameras the amount setting was bumped up to 40.   From what I have read the change occurred with LR version 7.3.  The sharpening algorithm has not changed, just the initial import settings.  One can change these defaults so the radius of 2.0 which is usually way to high can be reset accordingly.

I wouldn't be surprised if Adobe had taken this decision to try to compensate for the better demoisaicing engine of C1 Pro?

LR default used to look a lot softer than C1.

Cheers,
Bernard

D Fuller

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #204 on: July 08, 2019, 05:31:21 pm »

Yes, for my old D300 files the settings are 25, 1.0, 25; the same for my old D810 though these were imported before I updated Lightroom earlier this year to the subscription model.  For the Z 6 it's 24, 2.0, 25 and I've read reports that some Sony cameras the amount setting was bumped up to 40.   From what I have read the change occurred with LR version 7.3.  The sharpening algorithm has not changed, just the initial import settings.  One can change these defaults so the radius of 2.0 which is usually way to high can be reset accordingly.

I I understand what's happening correctly, Lightroom takes the camera's settings, as they are recorded in the metadata (would be applied to a JPEG, were you to shoot JPEG) and sets its sliders to that. So in theory, what LR gives you to start with should be as close as it can produce to what you saw on the monitor screen of the camera.
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #205 on: July 08, 2019, 05:34:11 pm »

I I understand what's happening correctly, Lightroom takes the camera's settings, as they are recorded in the metadata (would be applied to a JPEG, were you to shoot JPEG) and sets its sliders to that. So in theory, what LR gives you to start with should be as close as it can produce to what you saw on the monitor screen of the camera.
Why would LR make your RAWs have the same settings as you have selected for your SOOC JPGs?

D Fuller

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #206 on: July 08, 2019, 06:07:59 pm »

Why would LR make your RAWs have the same settings as you have selected for your SOOC JPGs?

You'd have to ask Adobe. But it makes sense to me.

They have to start somewhere, and the two choices that seem most sensible to me are:
  • everything zeroed, and
  • the same settings you saw when shooting.
They seem to have chosen #2, but if you don't like their choice, you can apply any seetting you want on import, so I don't see much of a problem either way.
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #207 on: July 08, 2019, 06:12:38 pm »

You'd have to ask Adobe. But it makes sense to me.

They have to start somewhere, and the two choices that seem most sensible to me are:
  • everything zeroed, and
  • the same settings you saw when shooting.
They seem to have chosen #2, but if you don't like their choice, you can apply any seetting you want on import, so I don't see much of a problem either way.
So if I change the JPG settings in my camera, even though I don't shoot JPGs, LR changes the defaults on my RAWs?

D Fuller

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #208 on: July 08, 2019, 06:28:34 pm »

So if I change the JPG settings in my camera, even though I don't shoot JPGs, LR changes the defaults on my RAWs?

Yes.

You should also know that what you see in playback in-camera reflects the JPEG settings, even if you only shoot raw (as I do). I most often keep the camera set to a flat profile in its still mode because it lets me see further into the shadows in contrasty light.
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faberryman

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #209 on: July 08, 2019, 06:41:48 pm »

Yes. You should also know that what you see in playback in-camera reflects the JPEG settings, even if you only shoot raw (as I do). I most often keep the camera set to a flat profile in its still mode because it lets me see further into the shadows in contrasty light.
I don't shoot JPGs so I have never changed the default settings. I didn't know LR read them and applied them to RAWs. Learn something new every day.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #210 on: July 09, 2019, 08:23:16 am »

I don't shoot JPGs so I have never changed the default settings. I didn't know LR read them and applied them to RAWs. Learn something new every day.
Same for me.  Don't shoot JPGs and have never fooled around with the settings.

EDIT:  I just noticed that the Noise reduction sliders now have a default setting for the Z 6 as well.  With D810 & D300 images the Luminescence value was set to zero and the Detail and Contrast sliders are grayed out which they should be since the sliders have no effect unless one changes the Luminescence to a positive value.  Native Z 6 Raw files have a default of Lum 10, Detail 75, Contrast 0; I wonder if this is another Adobe decision about what they thing is best for the image in terms of a starting point.

Alan
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 08:50:28 am by Alan Goldhammer »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #211 on: July 11, 2019, 10:09:52 pm »

SrMi

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #212 on: July 11, 2019, 11:03:54 pm »

Same for me.  Don't shoot JPGs and have never fooled around with the settings.

EDIT:  I just noticed that the Noise reduction sliders now have a default setting for the Z 6 as well.  With D810 & D300 images the Luminescence value was set to zero and the Detail and Contrast sliders are grayed out which they should be since the sliders have no effect unless one changes the Luminescence to a positive value.  Native Z 6 Raw files have a default of Lum 10, Detail 75, Contrast 0; I wonder if this is another Adobe decision about what they thing is best for the image in terms of a starting point.

Alan

Some of those settings are in the built-in profiles embedded in the raw files by Nikon, some are Adobeís choices.
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KLaban

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #213 on: July 12, 2019, 09:14:53 am »

Some of those settings are in the built-in profiles embedded in the raw files by Nikon, some are Adobeís choices.

I believe you are right. I also believe this is why I'm seeing some variation in the settings between individual shots on the Z7.
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kers

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #214 on: July 12, 2019, 11:37:30 am »

I read : focus by wire: turn the camera off and the focus changes. ( is that true?)
And not to have the freedom of choice putting the lenscorrections ON or OFF.
For me those two things are downsides in using the camera/lenses.
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SrMi

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #215 on: July 12, 2019, 12:23:56 pm »

I read : focus by wire: turn the camera off and the focus changes. ( is that true?)
And not to have the freedom of choice putting the lenscorrections ON or OFF.
For me those two things are downsides in using the camera/lenses.

The focus seems to reset if you are using a focus by wire lens. I assume this is regardless of the camera/system used.

The mandatory application of lens correction is an issue with raw software, not with the camera.
AFAIK:

C1: lens correction optional :).
LR: lens correction mandatory if it is part of the built-in profile :(.
Capture NX-D: lens correction either mandatory or optional if built-in profile provided, depending on the lens :).

Note that at least Fuji GF and some Leicas also include a built-in profile that contains lens distortion corrections.
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kers

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #216 on: July 12, 2019, 12:51:56 pm »

The focus seems to reset if you are using a focus by wire lens. I assume this is regardless of the camera/system used.

The mandatory application of lens correction is an issue with raw software, not with the camera.
AFAIK:

C1: lens correction optional :).
LR: lens correction mandatory if it is part of the built-in profile :(.
Capture NX-D: lens correction either mandatory or optional if built-in profile provided, depending on the lens :).

Note that at least Fuji GF and some Leicas also include a built-in profile that contains lens distortion corrections.

Thank you- i use LR and it should be addressed. ( there are more things in LR that are not working well)
i have a bad habit turning the camera on and off all the time- at the same time i make use of the fact focus stays put. ... ( d850) so i will have change my working methods.
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SrMi

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #217 on: July 12, 2019, 09:29:35 pm »

Thank you- i use LR and it should be addressed. ( there are more things in LR that are not working well)
i have a bad habit turning the camera on and off all the time- at the same time i make use of the fact focus stays put. ... ( d850) so i will have change my working methods.

The reset-to-infinity seems to be a property of focus-by-wire lenses, not cameras. If you mount an AF-P 70-300 lens on D850, it will reset to infinity if turned off. If you attach a Tamron 35-150 on Z 7 via FTZ, it will not reset to infinity when turned off.
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armand

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #218 on: July 18, 2019, 05:25:06 pm »

I need it to use the AE bracketing yesterday on the Z7 and it turned out more convoluted than I recall doing it on the Fuji X system.

In order to get the shots immediately after each other, and not getting all of them with one shutter push/remote activation as in the Fuji, according to the manual by Thom Hogan I have to set the intervalometer with the same number of shots as the set AE bracketing, in a different part of the menu of course. Otherwise I have to activate the shutter for each shot in the AE bracketing. This is not too straightforward.

Second issue: to cancel the AE bracketing I have to go back and set the number of shots to 0. This is also more complicated than it should be. On the Fuji I just enable or disable the bracketing, whatever it is (AE, focus, etc).

Any way to do this faster/simpler?

Paul2660

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Re: Nikon Z 6 & Z 7 Comments and Issues
« Reply #219 on: July 18, 2019, 06:53:30 pm »

What happens if you switch to continuous mode?  With the D850 you can hold the shutter down for all brackets in continuous mode.

Edit, yes this works. Turn on AE bracketing, set exposure range, change to continuous and with single press of shutter all brackets are taken. Works same way with remote release also.  Never had to use the intervalometer.  Requires holding shutter button down entire time or remote release.

You can also enable AE bracketing, continuous shutter low or high and 2 sec delay. This allows one single depressing of the shutter and it will fire all the brackets. You donít have to keep holding the shutter down.

I agree the actual setting up is a bit tedious.

Paul C
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 10:32:24 pm by Paul2660 »
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