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Author Topic: Humanism in photography.  (Read 3686 times)

RSL

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2019, 09:09:18 am »

Well well here we go again. I have a dog in this fight having posted an image I am actually quite pleased with. I think generally the criticism is quite one sided coming from you Russ. It’s not the first time you have had a go at Ivo’s photos. Not the first time you have had a go at mine either. I remember you telling me the photos I posted on a Street thread were pooor snapshots without merit. I have always found Lula to be quite kind to photographers having a go and trying something and have myself generally refrained from being critical. I have sometimes suggested where I think an image can be improved but I don’t think I have ever attacked anyone’s images in the way you do Russ.

Would you be strong enough to take it since you are pretty good at dishing it out?

Sorry you're feeling abused, Martin. As I recall, I've commented favorably on a few of your photographs, and I'll give you a thumbs up on the one you just posted. But if I suggested some of the pictures you posted were poor snapshots without merit, I'm sure I saw them that way, and I'm sure a lot of the posters on LuLa quietly agreed, even though they were too polite to say so. All sorts of crap gets posted on LuLa, so don't feel like the lone ranger. One of LuLa's problems is being "quite kind" to photographers whose work richly deserves criticism. Slobodan and a couple others aren't too polite to criticize. I wish more LuLaers would be willing to speak their piece. If you're afraid of criticism, better stay home.

RSL

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2019, 09:13:39 am »

I've gotta say, Russ, after watching you argue for years that street photography is more than simply sticking a person in the frame, it is surreal to watch you argue the exactly opposite position here.

Sorry, Andrew, you're going to have to explain where you thought I argued "exactly the opposite position here." I don't recall doing that.

amolitor

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2019, 09:19:50 am »

Post #58,while vague enough, I suppose, to allow you to escape, appears to be incapable of being read any other way.

But look, we all know you just want to butt heads with Ivo and are willing to do whatever. You can drop the pretense.
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RSL

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2019, 09:28:17 am »

Okay. I see where you went wrong. Capturing "Humanity" in street photography is a hell of a lot more than putting a person into a picture. But as I said in that post: "Street is too difficult a concept for a lot of photographers to grasp."

And as far as Ivo's stuff is concerned, as soon as he posts something worth a thumbs up, I'll give him one.

rabanito

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2019, 09:34:00 am »

"We all know" is a weak argument IMHO. You usually write better than that. ;D

As for hard critique:

I HATE being criticized and I LOVE being praised.
On the other hand I am grateful for the critiques since they help me to do better or, if I am of a different opinion, I just discard them.
Nobody gets hurt.
Since my goal is the print, every bit advice is welcome. Much better when I see the defects before they are hanging on the wall  ;D
Just my two cents
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2019, 10:00:08 am »

Martin, superb and IMO fits the topic perfectly.

Which topic?

Oh, you mean the invented, artsy-fartsy new genre for the MFA and the Aperture crowd that Luminous Landscape is turning to?

The above shouldn’t be read as a criticism of Martin’s fine photo. It already fits well into the existing categories of People and Travel.

“Human-forward pictures”? What!?

It seems that new genres has to be invented when “artists” can’t find a home for the rejects.

KLaban

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2019, 10:07:21 am »

Which topic?

Oh, you mean the invented, artsy-fartsy new genre for the MFA and the Aperture crowd that Luminous Landscape is turning to?

The above shouldn’t be read as a criticism of Martin’s fine photo. It already fits well into the existing categories of People and Travel.

“Human-forward pictures”? What!?

It seems that new genres has to be invented when “artists” can’t find a home for the rejects.

When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks.
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OmerV

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2019, 10:11:47 am »

Well, if Andrew Molitor can write "I must admit that I find it throughly depressing how out of touch with the history of the medium most photographers seem to be (post 14)." without being called out, then I think Russ, who is well versed in the history of photography, can write what he thinks.

RSL

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2019, 10:12:23 am »

I'm sure glad we're not posting stuff about politics any longer. We might get into arguments about that.

32BT

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2019, 10:20:53 am »

Which topic?

Oh, you mean the invented, artsy-fartsy new genre for the MFA and the Aperture crowd that Luminous Landscape is turning to?

The above shouldn’t be read as a criticism of Martin’s fine photo. It already fits well into the existing categories of People and Travel.

“Human-forward pictures”? What!?

It seems that new genres has to be invented when “artists” can’t find a home for the rejects.

Now, now, Slobodan? If LuLa turns into a new settlement with a different crowd, it is entirely our own fault since the one and a half posters that were still here obviously don't pay the bills and certainly can not dictate the house rules based on seniority or whatever, a basis that probably doesn't even exist in the fluidity of the internutz age.

Humanism is a real, but rather large encompassing concept in art. Ivo is obviously free to start a thread about it, is also free to request photo entries, and is also free to judge whether his own contributions fit the bill or not. I don't mind reading discussions about the merit of photos in whatever genres, but the slush I have to wade through in this thread doesn't seem justified in any way. It doesn't contribute to anyone's understanding.

I'd vote for a restart of this thread with either less, or at least more respectful discussion.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2019, 10:53:32 am »

...  I'd vote for a restart of this thread...

By all means.

But first think about this: you come to a Sons of Anarchy motorcycle club and start a lecture on the art of macrame. You'd think that for the sake of your dear life you'd be better off by explaining first what macrame is and why the bikers might warm up to it, no?

amolitor

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2019, 10:55:27 am »

Humanist Photography, as noted, has been around as a (rather broad) genre for essentially the same length of time as Modernist photography. Neither are, um, leading edge at this point, and from an Art Historical perspective are rather a part of "history" rather than "now"

Still, it is unfair to dismiss Humanist Photography as new, especially in an internet forum on photography which is, like all internet forums on photography, thoroughly locked in, apparently irrevocably, to an extremely Modernist mindset.
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32BT

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2019, 11:10:03 am »

By all means.

But first think about this: you come to a Sons of Anarchy motorcycle club and start a lecture on the art of macrame. You'd think that for the sake of your dear life you'd be better off by explaining first what macrame is and why the bikers might warm up to it, no?

Of course, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. But I wouldn't blame anyone for trying the macraméthingy, since the gangmembers still there seem occupants of the retirement home across the street. (Did I just say "street"?)...

;-)

 
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2019, 11:25:57 am »

My point being if one wants to start something new, introduce a new concept, or art history lesson, I am all for it, but with an intro. This is Luminous Landscape site, where the images center around bell curve with "chocolate-box pretty" firmly in the center and most other things one sigma away. You want two or three sigmas? Fine, just tell us something about it, before assuming that the chocolate crowd would swoon over babushkas.

Slobodan
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KLaban

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2019, 11:44:24 am »

Whenever I hear artsy-fartsy I know we're in for a treat.

Let's keep it safe, sterile and over saturated.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 01:01:45 pm by KLaban »
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Rob C

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #75 on: January 14, 2019, 01:34:12 pm »

The trouble is, for anyone under about 70, more or less, the concept of photographic history is a bit distorted.

You can go to some schools, listen to all their old farts telling you about old processes etc. but they never tell you the truth that the ones without a dog in that fight can see. That truth is that photography was something that you learned via apprenticeship or hobby, and from looking at magazines and the very few photographic monographs that you came across. Instead, in recent decades it has become a new, teachable subject in art schools, as distinct from technical colleges where, for a brief period I had to attend, too.

That situation has created a handy niche within the educational establishment where lots of people can make an extra buck from talking about something instead of doing it. That incentive becomes self-perpetuating, there are grants available, and so you get people rabbiting on about images and tacking them onto the tails of other socially motivated ideas and psychological concepts that have nothing to do with photography other than provide playgrounds where anyone, with or without talent, can play and think himself a king; there are ever those other fellow players who will stand up and cheer, if for no other reason that they are swimming in it together.

You can, today, make an absolutely bland, featureless photograph, claim some silly absurdity of a genre for it, and hey, you're on your way. Think of that grim period of fashion photography that made a star of Corinne Day, that gave a platform to Nan Goldin et al. and you begin to get the picture: it's the art establishment that is responsible for this trend, because in my view, it is there to do one thing: make money for itself by building up stables of people that, in a sane world, would never sell anything. Where the age thing comes in, is memory: we/I or any similarly aged person well remembers a time when photographs depended on technique, content and purpose. For younger people this appears to have become an embarrassingly awkward thought, reactionary even, because if your diet is tweeting, texting and living your life in your palm, then no wonder anything goes if only because, in your world of dinner plate art, anything and everything does, indeed, go. Without expectations of excellence, you get no excellence, which is where we came in.

Just another old fart's opinion, of course.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 02:11:00 pm by Rob C »
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rabanito

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #76 on: January 14, 2019, 01:47:58 pm »

..... Where the age thing comes in, is memory: we/I or any similarly aged person well remembers a time when photographs depended on technique, content and purpose. For younger people this appears to have become an embarrassingly awkward thought, reactionary even, because if your diet is tweeting, texting and living your life in your palm, then no wonder anything goes if only because, in your world of dinner plate art, anything and everything does, indeed, go. Without expectations of excellence, you get no excellence, which is where we came in.
...

Hear, hear ! 
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amolitor

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #77 on: January 14, 2019, 01:58:27 pm »

I will allow as how the modern art establishment has, um, not exactly rendered contemporary photography accessible. In many cases, even an open minded fellow like me can't make sense out of it.

Still, this is the same as it ever was. Henry Peach Robinson railed against Julia Margaret Cameron's fuzzy portraits at some length, disparaging the lack of technique and asserting that this produced worthless results. But some people seem to think she was doing rather well in the end.
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faberryman

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #78 on: January 14, 2019, 02:07:54 pm »

Where the age thing comes in, is memory: we/I or any similarly aged person well remembers a time when photographs depended on technique, content and purpose. For younger people this appears to have become an embarrassingly awkward thought, reactionary even, because if your diet is tweeting, texting and living your life in your palm, then no wonder anything goes if only because, in your world of dinner plate art, anything and everything does, indeed, go. Without expectations of excellence, you get no excellence, which is where we came in.
It is not limited to youth. Everyone gets a certificate of participation. Even around here where long term members pat each other on the back for mediocre images just to keep up a spirit of bonhomie on an otherwise moribund website.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 05:20:02 pm by faberryman »
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Ivophoto

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Re: Humanism in photography.
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2019, 02:15:32 pm »

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