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Author Topic: Kevin Raber?  (Read 6806 times)

Manoli

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2019, 04:06:10 pm »

Paywalls always cause huge declines in memberships and page views...

The forum is quite distinct from LuLa , the main site.

Registration and posting on the forum is FOC and totally independent of the subscription charge which give the subscriber access to the published articles found on the home page. Originally, it was suggested that the forum too should be subject to a membership subscription, but this, being so obviously self-defeating, was discarded almost instantaneously.

The forum was a resource, which LuLa hosted, but they did/do not own the copyright to the posts. There was an unspoken suspicion that, with Michael's passing, there would be an attempt to 'monetise' the forum which resulted in some members deleting selective posts (and threads).
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KLaban

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2019, 04:16:52 pm »

I believe it was Chris Sanderson who indicated some time ago that the figures are fatally flawed.
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Rob C

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2019, 04:18:03 pm »

The forum is quite distinct from LuLa , the main site.

The forum was a resource, which LuLa hosted, but they did/do not own the copyright to the posts. There was an unspoken suspicion that, with Michael's passing, there would be an attempt to 'monetise' the forum which resulted in some members deleting selective posts (and threads).


I'm not sure how you arrive at a split in nomenclature, as distinct from the bits you pay to open. LuLa refers to the website, not bits of it. At least, it has always had that comprehensive identity in my mind and I can't remember reading anything official to the contrary.

Regarding the deletions: yes, and it could easily happen again. My really old posts have had a great number of pix removed because I don't much like the idea of being caught napping and being too late to protect myself in some way.

Manoli

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2019, 04:23:16 pm »

... and for how long do people feel inclined to keep on immersing themselves in photo websites? I hang on in because there's not much else to do;

You do yourself no justice.
I'd point out that, ranked by views  the two all-time top threads, in the coffee corner are:

1/ Trump II, and
2/ Rob C ( started by no other than Jeremy Roussak) with only 25 replies yet 226,636 views.

You make my point - LuLa would be a much poorer place without you; it's not just about the articles and paying subscriptions.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 05:14:54 pm by Manoli »
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Manoli

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2019, 04:31:37 pm »

I believe it was Chris Sanderson who indicated some time ago that the figures are fatally flawed.

'fatally flawed' ? - these are LuLa stats and relate purely to the forum.

Chris , IIRC, referred to paying membership subscriptions and also added that they (LuLa) were a viable concern, making money - " otherwise we wouldn't be here "!
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2019, 04:31:49 pm »

You do yourself no justice.
I'd point out that, ranked by views  the two all-time top threads, in the coffee corner are:

1/ Trump II, and
2/ Rob C ( started by no other than Jeremy Roussak) with 25 views and 226,636 views.
There were 2-3 climate change threads that had a lot of traffic as well.
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Manoli

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2019, 04:35:49 pm »

Alan , I did say top two.
There was also Brexit and at least another two Trump threads :)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2019, 04:40:49 pm »

Not only that, but was a time lots of people dreamed of turning pro, and that provided much incentive for photo education out of magazines and so forth, with heaps of technical articles on the processes - developers alone had a huge mystique built up around them and people spent money trying everything out when, instead, they'd have been better off sticking with one of the standards such as D76 and actually discovering how the thing reacted with different films, though even there, film standardisation made a lot of sense. I doubt that many people still feel as drawn to the idea of the pro life; they must be aware of how that business has been cut at the knees compared with the wide range of different exponents it once nourished.

Take those things out of the equation, and for how long do people feel inclined to keep on immersing themselves in photo websites? I hang on in because there's not much else to do; younger people living in cities have vastly different choices open to them for passing the time - if they have any to spare.
Rob,

It's not just the purely 'pro' photographers who get material advantage out of LuLa.  I've sold pictures but this is really more of an avocation for me.  It's mostly office hangings.  LuLa's big benefit are the technical issues that get discussed on the forums.  That's where I spend the majority of my time when visiting the website.  I do read the gear reviews and have made some purchases based on what I've read (I think it was Nick Devlin's review of the UniqBall tripod head that convinced me that this was a good product.  He was right.  I likely would not have come across the product had it not been for LuLa.).  I have also had some questions from time to time and they get answered by someone who knows the topic very quickly.  As I said on an early post following the transition, this is the value I attribute to LuLa.
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KLaban

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2019, 04:47:52 pm »

'fatally flawed' ? - these are LuLa stats and relate purely to the forum.

Chris , IIRC, referred to paying membership subscriptions and also added that they (LuLa) were a viable concern, making money - " otherwise we wouldn't be here "!

You could well be right although I recall he suggested that the new members figures were flawed: something to do with the software?
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Chris Kern

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2019, 06:33:38 pm »

You make my point - LuLa would be a much poorer place without you; it's not just about the articles and paying subscriptions.

And you make my point: something that has been rattling around in my head—sigh, lots of loose stuff up there these days—since I started reading the threads about the new management.

For me, the primary value of LuLa is the forums: the exchange of views among people with a common interest but different perspectives.  I particularly enjoy their international character.  (I do wish more posters would enter a location in their profiles, at least the country; it helps readers understand—quite literally—"where they're coming from."  I can't imagine why anyone who is not in a witness-protection program would be reluctant to do that.)  We're a diverse and articulate lot, with interesting perspectives and often strong opinions, but that common interest provides a basis for bridging the experiential, geographical, and philosophical divides.

To be sure, I've found some of the more formal articles to be instructive, particularly Jeff Schewe's and Michael Reichman's video tutorials, from which I learned a great deal when I was first trying to master the digital medium, Mark Segal's printing reviews (although they sometimes go over my head), and the occasional photo essay—although, as a general rule, I've found the pictures posted in the forums to be more engaging than those posted on the start page.

But it's the people on the forums, especially the technical experts but also the more opinionated and provocative ones, that induce me to check in almost every day.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 07:22:08 pm by Chris Kern »
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Two23

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2019, 09:08:41 pm »



For me, the primary value of LuLa is the forums: the exchange of views among people with a common interest but different perspectives.  I particularly enjoy their international character.  (I do wish more posters would enter a location in their profiles, at least the country; it helps readers understand—quite literally—"where they're coming from."  I can't imagine why anyone who is not in a witness-protection program would be reluctant to do that.)  We're a diverse and articulate lot, with interesting perspectives and often strong opinions, but that common interest provides a basis for bridging the experiential, geographical, and philosophical divides.


That's the primary attraction for me too.  I live in a somewhat geographically isolated place and the number of people who live near me who are semi-serious about photography in general is not great.  Internet forums are convenient for me to get on in random moments and give me access to some "exotic" people I wouldn't find otherwise.  Mostly I like to kick around ideas, sometimes I like to post photos to see what others think (although most of mine are probably too "off topic" here.)  I also enjoy the humor--I'm all about having fun. :)  What I don't like is the pointless arguing ("Is too!"  "Is not!")  Some of the articles on Lula have been interesting/useful to me, some less so.  I've had no interest in any of the equipment reviews I've seen here so far.  There's just no way I'm spending on a  $5,000 camera, (unless it was once owned by Matthew Brady or Brassai perhaps. :)  )  I will admit that I no longer have the interest in even the more prosaic photo gear that I did ~5 years ago.  I've sort of entered a state of mind where camera gear seems only secondary to photography.  I do find myself sometimes looking on the internet to read if a 1920s Dynar lens is the same as a Heliar, and what the coverage is.  I do own a Nikon D800E and shoot with it regularly, along with the best lenses available.  OTOH the last bit of photo gear I've purchased was a c.1862 Voigtlander Petzval, FL=12 inch and f3.5.  It's huge!  I could do an in depth review here if there's interest.


Kent in SD
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LesPalenik

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2019, 09:28:31 pm »

Kent, what did you put in that lens barrel to attract the cat?

Patricia Sheley

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2019, 09:33:24 pm »

É un Petz !  ;)
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Two23

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2019, 09:35:52 pm »

Kent, what did you put in that lens barrel to attract the cat?

Annie sniffs everything that comes into the house. ;D  It's become a standing joke on another forum that every time I set up to take a photo of an old camera or lens, Annie will get into the photo one way or another.


Kent in SD
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LesPalenik

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2019, 11:46:01 pm »

Only a pussy would find a scent of an old barrel attractive.

Rob C

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2019, 04:51:49 am »


That's the primary attraction for me too.  I live in a somewhat geographically isolated place and the number of people who live near me who are semi-serious about photography in general is not great.  Internet forums are convenient for me to get on in random moments and give me access to some "exotic" people I wouldn't find otherwise.  Mostly I like to kick around ideas, sometimes I like to post photos to see what others think (although most of mine are probably too "off topic" here.)  I also enjoy the humor--I'm all about having fun. :)  What I don't like is the pointless arguing ("Is too!"  "Is not!")  Some of the articles on Lula have been interesting/useful to me, some less so.  I've had no interest in any of the equipment reviews I've seen here so far.  There's just no way I'm spending on a  $5,000 camera, (unless it was once owned by Matthew Brady or Brassai perhaps. :)  )  I will admit that I no longer have the interest in even the more prosaic photo gear that I did ~5 years ago.  I've sort of entered a state of mind where camera gear seems only secondary to photography.

Kent in SD


You could be writing on my behalf, as I share your sense of photographic isolation and lack of interest in spending money on more new stuff that's irrelevant to my photography itself.

When I first got onto the Internet, it was the fact that communication across the globe was happening in front of my very eyes that fascinated. Access to so many pictures from my list of revered photographers was a fantastic benefit, too; I no longer had to hope for the lucky encounter with a magazine of book somewhere, but could activate a search right there and then.

It might be that there are more people of like mind (regarding gear) than we might at first glance assume. If that's so, then it could explain why visits to camera factories and the paying of excessive tributes to camera builders are seen as turn-offs: these things are a sideshow. Which leads me to ask myself: what's the real show?

Rob
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 05:53:07 am by Rob C »
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KLaban

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2019, 05:06:41 am »


You could be witing on my behalf, as I share your sense of photographic isolation and lack of interest in spending money on more new stuff that's irrelevant to my photography itself.

When I first got onto the Internet, it was the fact that communication across the globe was happening in front of my very eyes that fascinated. Access to so many pictures from my list of revered photographers was a fantastic benefit, too; I no longer had to hope for the lucky encounter with a magazine of book somewhere, but could activate a search right there and then.

It might be that there are more people of like mind (regarding gear) than we might at first glance assume. If that's so, then it could explain why visits to camera factories and the paying of excessive tributes to camera builders are seen as turn-offs: these things are a sideshow. Which leads me to ask myself: what's the real show?

Rob

This.
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Rob C

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2019, 06:09:38 am »

Keith, the first thnig I noticed was my typo, since corrected, "witing".

In my own take on LuLa, the chat is where it's at. But that depends on random events, such as whether people read something that spurs them into reply, or whether they just don't care enough either way.

How can a website, that costs money to run, manage to make that happen consistently enough? Maybe it can't, because none of the things on offer are as prosaically important as going down to the supermarket to buy some potatoes when you have none left.

It could be that we are seeing the old new-age concept of Internet business finally morph into the reality, where the free content we accepted as the norm in the past never was sustainable, and now that truth has come home to roost.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2019, 06:11:10 am »

Only a pussy would find a scent of an old barrel attractive.

I feel I should complain, instead I grin.

Rob

Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Kevin Raber?
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2019, 06:36:43 am »

...

Web forums are a dinosaur, and the asteroid hit a long time ago. Kids these days don't know nor care about web forums, so it's no miracle than the growth effectively stopped. It's not Kevin's fault, it's just the way the world is now.

...not that there's anything wrong with it. I always read and liked this forum (long before I made an account) because of the people with experience. I'm tired of young nobodies that think they know it all. The internet (in all its forms, sites, youtube, etc) is full of them.

I'm only 30, by the way.

If more people would come, it would be awful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September.
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