Does the new LuLa need an editor?

[ShirleyB]

I don't know if others have noticed or not, but spelling errors, grammar errors, and sentences that don't make sense, are all part of the new normal.  It used to be that if a misspelling occurred in newspaper articles, there would be reader complaints, and apologies from the paper. Almost all of my reading now is online and I probably see 2-5 errors a day. Magazines and newspapers have cut back so much on staff, and today’s competitiveness to get the story out first, means that efficiency cuts out the editing job. It used to bother me, but I've got over it....they aren't even teaching cursive writing in school anymore, young people don't wear watches because they have their phones, the world is full of Lol's, rotfl's.  It's a different generation that cares about the big picture, but isn't as fastidious with the details.  It's not going away, so you might as well get used to it.  I don't think an editor is required, I am happy seeing Josh in the CEO role, I've enjoyed his articles so far, and it's refreshing to have new-old blood.  This site needs to attract new up and comers as others have said, there are a lot of old guys on this site. I have followed LuLa since it’s beginning, and it used to be excellent. I thought I was missing things when I didn't join, so I joined and I wasn't missing anything.  Those videos done in the camera shop with 3 old guys giggling and drinking too much whiskey were not anything close to what will attract Millennials, or women, for that matter. If you don't get new content that will attract new younger photographers, male and female, the site will die as the average age goes higher. That's what we need Josh and Irene for.  There is no room for all the mocking and horror about Josh and Irene's backgrounds.  Everyone one of us have qualities and knowledge we bring to the table that contribute to the overall picture and we need to take advantage of that, because that is where new ideas and new creativity come from. I look forward to the future here, where I was ready to sign off the site before.

[Robert Roaldi]

Sorry Alan and anyone else who questioned Mikenor2 (I donated have the stomach to read everything that’s been written) - but I have to agree with him.

All this sniping and chirping is a great way to drive away those who are interested in talking photography. It’s a clear sign of having too much time on your hands.

The discussion got a bit geeky but I would not characterize this thread as sniping. I appreciate that the subject matter may not be generally interesting but you could say that about a lot of threads. Also, I don't agree that it would drive away people who are interested in photography since the subject heading made it clear what the thread was about and so pretty easy to ignore. There are a lot of threads that I never look at for that very reason.

For one, I found out that there is such a thing as hot slaw, which I'd never heard of. I assume it means hot as in hot sauce, and not as in temperature.

[Rob C]

The discussion got a bit geeky but I would not characterize this thread as sniping. I appreciate that the subject matter may not be generally interesting but you could say that about a lot of threads. Also, I don't agree that it would drive away people who are interested in photography since the subject heading made it clear what the thread was about and so pretty easy to ignore. There are a lot of threads that I never look at for that very reason.

For one, I found out that there is such a thing as hot slaw, which I'd never heard of. I assume it means hot as in hot sauce, and not as in temperature.

Exactly: it's the pay-off for a type of genre identification [ ;-) ], clearly defined sections of interest that save reader patience and time...

I would add another point: photographs are not really things about which anything much can be written (that's intersting, rather than art-speak) because anything written is going to be based on the writer's subjective reaction and tells us more about the critic than it does the photograph, and absolutely nothing at all about the photographer. I, for one, usually don't give a fig about the interviewer unless he/she is also a renowned photographer in his/her own right.

That's why I have long advocated interviews with photographers about their whys and not their hows, which are usually quite self-evident to anyone who has the ability to read a photograph just a little bit. If one decides on a site policy that means reducing the content to the level of the neophyte, than most folks will vote with their feet.

Rob

[Rob C]

I don't know if others have noticed or not, but spelling errors, grammar errors, and sentences that don't make sense, are all part of the new normal.  It used to be that if a misspelling occurred in newspaper articles, there would be reader complaints, and apologies from the paper. Almost all of my reading now is online and I probably see 2-5 errors a day. Magazines and newspapers have cut back so much on staff, and today’s competitiveness to get the story out first, means that efficiency cuts out the editing job. It used to bother me, but I've got over it....they aren't even teaching cursive writing in school anymore, young people don't wear watches because they have their phones, the world is full of Lol's, rotfl's.  It's a different generation that cares about the big picture, but isn't as fastidious with the details.  It's not going away, so you might as well get used to it.  I don't think an editor is required, I am happy seeing Josh in the CEO role, I've enjoyed his articles so far, and it's refreshing to have new-old blood.  This site needs to attract new up and comers as others have said, there are a lot of old guys on this site. I have followed LuLa since it’s beginning, and it used to be excellent. I thought I was missing things when I didn't join, so I joined and I wasn't missing anything.  Those videos done in the camera shop with 3 old guys giggling and drinking too much whiskey were not anything close to what will attract Millennials, or women, for that matter. If you don't get new content that will attract new younger photographers, male and female, the site will die as the average age goes higher. That's what we need Josh and Irene for.  There is no room for all the mocking and horror about Josh and Irene's backgrounds.  Everyone one of us have qualities and knowledge we bring to the table that contribute to the overall picture and we need to take advantage of that, because that is where new ideas and new creativity come from. I look forward to the future here, where I was ready to sign off the site before.

So, Shirley, are you advocating surrender to the philistines still mostly beyond the stockade?

You write quite well, so that seems to suggest an altruistically defensive attitude rather than a hearfelt belief.

;-)

[Alan Goldhammer]

I don't know if others have noticed or not, but spelling errors, grammar errors, and sentences that don't make sense, are all part of the new normal.

This does not mean that it is acceptable.

Almost all of my reading now is online and I probably see 2-5 errors a day.

The grammar and usage on most major news/information websites is exemplary.  Since anyone can start and maintain a website these days leads to lots of poor writing.

I have followed LuLa since it’s beginning, and it used to be excellent. I thought I was missing things when I didn't join, so I joined and I wasn't missing anything.

Yet according to your statistics you are a relatively new member.  One of the features of LuLa is the sharing of information through reviews and on the forums.

Those videos done in the camera shop with 3 old guys giggling and drinking too much whiskey were not anything close to what will attract Millennials, or women, for that matter.

I'm not sure what videos these might be.  Certainly there was considerable humor in the excellent tutorial videos that Michael Reichman and Jeff Schewe did.  The informational content in these videos should appeal to everyone. 
 

If you don't get new content that will attract new younger photographers, male and female, the site will die as the average age goes higher.

The overwhelming number of photographers use cell phones and post to Instagram and other social sites.  Is this a potential target audience?

That's what we need Josh and Irene for.

All of us who have been here and contributed are happy to give them a chance to demonstrate that they have the right stuff.  Some of use were extremely disappointed at how this transition was handled and have been vocal about that. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

I would add another point: photographs are not really things about which anything much can be written (that's intersting, rather than art-speak) because anything written is going to be based on the writer's subjective reaction and tells us more about the critic than it does the photograph, and absolutely nothing at all about the photographer. I, for one, usually don't give a fig about the interviewer unless he/she is also a renowned photographer in his/her own right.

Rob

I would take issue with this.  There are a number of curators who have mounted important photographic exhibitions who are not necessarily renowned photographers.  Often they have written valuable appraisals of the photographers whose work is/has been exhibited.  Photography is just as open to artistic criticism as painting and architecture; I would not be quick to dismiss this.

[Peter McLennan]

One benefit of the small amount of teaching I do is the contact with young people that it enables.  Despite their sometimes annoying speling and gramir habits, youth can offer some refreshing and novel perspectives to us oldies - sometimes even driving us to better photography.

As ShirleyB and I have both commented, old men drinking alcohol and talking gear isn't valuable content.  I suspect these videos may have played a place in the recent management decisions.

The recent palace coup was surprising, but perhaps beneficial.  As Trump says, "We'll see what happens."

[faberryman]

As Trump says, "We'll see what happens."

Well, that pretty much puts the kiss of death on it.

[ShirleyB]

So, Shirley, are you advocating surrender to the philistines still mostly beyond the stockade?

You write quite well, so that seems to suggest an altruistically defensive attitude rather than a hearfelt belief.

;-)

Thanks for the writing compliment!  ....and all my beliefs are heartfelt, I don't waste my time on things that aren’t
Shirley

[Rob C]

One benefit of the small amount of teaching I do is the contact with young people that it enables.  Despite their sometimes annoying speling and gramir habits, youth can offer some refreshing and novel perspectives to us oldies - sometimes even driving us to better photography.

As ShirleyB and I have both commented, old men drinking alcohol and talking gear isn't valuable content.  I suspect these videos may have played a place in the recent management decisions.

The recent palace coup was surprising, but perhaps beneficial.  As Trump says, "We'll see what happens."

I enjoyed working with models younger than myself, but not their music and neither always their obsessions. It can be very difficult when you hear a young person speaking totally confidently from inexperience, especially when keeping that person onside is vital to the success of your venture.

Old men sitting around and drinking is as boring to me as young men sitting around and drinking, if only because I am medically forbidden to participate beyond the solitary glass of red wine. Drink-inspired conversation sounds even worse to the sober ear.

Were either the young or old to be talking gear at the same time it would be a fate far, far worse than the usual tall tales about golf or women or both at the same time.

I can't remember old men sitting drinking too much whisky and discussing gear on this site; maybe I'm not sufficiently into gear to have found that video.

[Rand47]

‘Twas no mistake - I meant the cutest sort of devourable 🍜

Yikes! 

Rand

[Rob C]

Thanks for the writing compliment!  ....and all my beliefs are heartfelt, I don't waste my time on things that aren’t
Shirley

Ah Shirley, lucky you!

The only time that I feel my own time is probably not wasted entirely is when I decide it's time to make lunch. However, that inner man has one sophisticated appetite, but such an incompetent as his cook! And trust me, that's a heartfelt belief of my own.

It's not as bad in the summer season because there are a couple of nice places that support my tummy; sadly, they both close in winter and I have to make do with myself. Or starve, and I'm thin enough already not to want to play dangerous games...

[Jeremy Roussak]

The grammar and usage on most major news/information websites is exemplary.

You must read a different set of sites from those which I frequent, Alan. The sites run by the BBC, The Daily Telegraph and (perhaps less surprisingly) The Guardian - all major news/information sites - are riddled daily with mistakes in grammar, punctuation and spelling.

Jeremy

[ShirleyB]

This does not mean that it is acceptable.The grammar and usage on most major news/information websites is exemplary.  Since anyone can start and maintain a website these days leads to lots of poor writing.Yet according to your statistics you are a relatively new member.  One of the features of LuLa is the sharing of information through reviews and on the forums.I'm not sure what videos these might be.  Certainly there was considerable humor in the excellent tutorial videos that Michael Reichman and Jeff Schewe did.  The informational content in these videos should appeal to everyone. 
 The overwhelming number of photographers use cell phones and post to Instagram and other social sites.  Is this a potential target audience? All of us who have been here and contributed are happy to give them a chance to demonstrate that they have the right stuff.  Some of use were extremely disappointed at how this transition was handled and have been vocal about that.

.
Thanks for your comments Alan, as I mentioned in my post, I have followed LuLa since the start, I have had accounts over the time period but I can never remember my login name  or my password, so I didn't join and pay my $12 until I decided to see what I was missing in articles.  Also I really wanted to read Alain Briot's articles.  When I started doing shows selling my photography in 2005  he was like my how-to-god, he had great informative podcasts. I don't usually comment on forums, because the back and forth sucks up a lot of time, like right now when I should be getting my prints ready for a show.  The sites that I have seeing errors on are not yahoos who started their own website, I am increasingly seeing it in NYT, WP, CNN and recently in a lot of well known authors novels.  It really bothered me at first as the lack of quality irked me, but I can't change the world, and I don't have the time even if I wanted to. Yes Michael did wonderful informative videos that were outstanding and taught me a lot, but what my posting referred to was the content after Michaels passing.  I was glad to hear that Peter McLennan thought as I did regarding the whiskey and gear videos, that isn't the type of content Michael would have had. I think there is an opportunity for Josh to get the site back on track and educate a younger clientele as I was educated when I started out.  When you get to a stage when you are only talking about very high end gear, there is a limited audience for that, and that is when I think the site risks losing its audience.  I now have high end gear, but it’s taken 15 years and some success to be able to that point.  I got to that point partly due to the quality that was LuLa. That is not to say there is no room for mature individuals (see I didn't say old;-). ) they are the ones needed to impart their knowledge.  Anyways, now I really have to go and varnish canvases. Shirley

[bjanes]

I can't remember old men sitting drinking too much whisky and discussing gear on this site; maybe I'm not sufficiently into gear to have found that video.

Rob,

I think the reference of old men sitting around and drinking whisky was referring to the On The Rocks that Kevin participated in some time ago. The discussion of the Olympus MFT was informative and the participants did not appear to be intoxicated. However, I think the drinking theme was a bit questionable.

https://luminous-landscape.com/on-the-rocks-episode-one/

Bill

[KLaban]

I can't remember old men sitting drinking too much whisky and discussing gear on this site; maybe I'm not sufficiently into gear to have found that video.

Neither am I, Rob, but I have to say the gear threads are beginning to appeal, particularly when compared to this pedantic nonsense.

:-( 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... old men drinking alcohol and talking gear isn't valuable content....

Yes. God forbid this site would discuss gear.

[jeremyrh]

I enjoyed working with models younger than myself, but not their music and neither always their obsessions. It can be very difficult when you hear a young person speaking totally confidently from inexperience

Are there any models NOT younger than you (us) ?? :-)

One of the things I like about working with young people (models or students) is their enthusiasm and optimism. Maybe those traits are a function of inexperience, but it is a breath of fresh air for this old fart.

[Rob C]

Are there any models NOT younger than you (us) ?? :-)

One of the things I like about working with young people (models or students) is their enthusiasm and optimism. Maybe those traits are a function of inexperience, but it is a breath of fresh air for this old fart.

Today, if they deigned to work with me, they'd think of me as their old grandpa, not the best way to elicit any sexual frisson so helpful in engendering chemistry, even without any intention whatsoever of bringing the thing to reality which, IMO, would kill it stone deaded. But hey, I wasn't born old, and wasn't old when I started, which kids can forget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAkUg-eRIaE

;-)

[Rob C]

Yes. God forbid this site would discuss gear.

And almost nothing else, editorially speaking.

Gear is easy; sellers are happy and able to get coverage the more monopolistic they become, and GAS the contemporary disease for which they are equally happy to dispense their snake oil remedies, new gear having nothing much to do with photographs per se, as the oil of any old snake is capable enough for anyone, especially since the advent of stitching which will become the Amazon of the photo-gear junkyard, consigning the megapixellators to the dumper and benign regard of the junkyard hound.

If you seek more than GAS, which I believe is where you are at and have been for ages, you depend mostly on columns/threads such as the one you are reading the noo, and the efforts of the posters to be heard and make their varied points... what have you honestly found recently in the editorials that gave you the hots?

I occasionally go though some of them to catch up, but almost never as the first stop when LuLa gets switched on. If it's a how-to I switch over to something else. Somebody mentioned the "problem" vis-à-vis expensive gear, since few are probably willing to shell out the price. I have no problem with reviews of any level of camera as I have no intentions of buying anything more at all, my current stuff better at the job of making exposures than am I at making interesting ones. What would I gain by spending more?

All I'd offer about reviews is that guy doing the review, if it's a video, not kiss ass so damned much: it makes me feel very uncomfortable and embarrassed on his behalf and not a little on that of the subject, who must find it cloyingy difficult too.

Rob