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Author Topic: Respect for subjects and society.  (Read 2362 times)

OmerV

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2019, 08:39:08 am »

Not sure, but then, digital bits don't generally burn like a good old wooden cross will...

https://stock.adobe.com/ee/editorial/pictures-of-the-year-a-picture-and-its-story/238535268

That is a very disrespectful image. As for burning digital bits, surely some enterprising kid will create an app for that.

Ivophoto

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2019, 09:03:44 am »

It should at least try to be respectful to the audience, which are generally exponents of society. If you want people to take the time and effort to look at and think through your image, it helps tremendously to be at least somewhat respectful to society. If you're not respectful to society, you shouldn't be surprised if your imaging is ignored, or worse, you get prosecuted.

Well, your explanation is a bit scary.

Since when is not showing Ďrespectí for society in visual art an offense that should be prosecuted?

Maybe we are to much pampered and donít realize how society can be an exponent of awkward ideology and should not get respect and should get offended by poetry, visual art, etc, etc ...

And since when is Ďrespectí granted? Is respect not something that comes in return for something else?
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32BT

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2019, 09:24:53 am »

Since when is not showing Ďrespectí for society in visual art an offense that should be prosecuted?

Not showing respect for a society may involve not showing respect for its laws. (Childabuse, to name just one example).

I know you like your daily dose of anarchy, and like I said earlier, sometimes anarchy may even be necessary, but I personally don't believe in anarchy as a constructive method of evolution. If you allow anarchy to reign, then you also subscribe to a philosophy of survival of the strongest (not fittest), which ultimately turns out to be the one who is willing to unscrupulously nuke the entire planet.

Since you're from Belgium: I'm sure you're familiar with Dimitri Verhulst... ;-)
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Ivophoto

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2019, 09:48:15 am »

Not showing respect for a society may involve not showing respect for its laws. (Childabuse, to name just one example).

I know you like your daily dose of anarchy, and like I said earlier, sometimes anarchy may even be necessary, but I personally don't believe in anarchy as a constructive method of evolution. If you allow anarchy to reign, then you also subscribe to a philosophy of survival of the strongest (not fittest), which ultimately turns out to be the one who is willing to unscrupulously nuke the entire planet.

Since you're from Belgium: I'm sure you're familiar with Dimitri Verhulst... ;-)

Of course I am familiar with Dimitriís work.

But, really, Oscar, what direction is this conversation going? Are you not shifting  from one extreme into the other?  It started to call a photo of two nice girls on a Mac potentially subject of prosecution and now we are at child abuse? And I am an anarchiste?

Really Oscar?


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32BT

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2019, 10:04:52 am »

Of course I am familiar with Dimitriís work.

But, really, Oscar, what direction is this conversation going? Are you not shifting  from one extreme into the other?  It started to call a photo of two nice girls on a Mac potentially subject of prosecution and now we are at child abuse? And I am an anarchiste?

Really Oscar?



Hey, I knew I was dealing with you, so I just adapted my style accordingly!   ;-)
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Ivophoto

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Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2019, 11:34:42 am »

Hey, I knew I was dealing with you, so I just adapted my style accordingly!   ;-)

No need to go personal if youíre short of arguments.
Letís call it a day. Ok?
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Rob C

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2019, 11:44:16 am »

Rob, that's some of the most honest, helpful criticism I've received. Thank you. 
I'll get back to work on this image with your suggestions top of mind.


Well, Peter, it's based very much on my own method of working with street/windows, because not much ever seems to happen for me when I'm there, with or without camera.

It seems that something  - not usually quite sure what - draws me to going click, and then later on I get more of an idea about what had attracted my eye and it becomes a matter of trying to accentuate the elements to get the effect I think I want. Very rarely does the completed idea hit me right away. If it did, it would save a lot of wasted effort!

Rob

RSL

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2019, 03:03:58 pm »

Rob, you, even more than I, should know that thereís no way around wasted effort in this racket. I look at my collection of what I think are my best street shots, spread over more than sixty years, and I think of all the thousands of rejects along the way: the shots I blew learning to compose, the shots Iíve missed because I wasnít quite fast enough with the camera, the shots Iíve missed because I was set for work at a distance and the thing happened close-in. As HCB said: ďItís always luck. You just have to be receptive. Thatís all.Ē

petermfiore

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2019, 03:47:20 pm »

Rob, you, even more than I, should know that thereís no way around wasted effort in this racket. I look at my collection of what I think are my best street shots, spread over more than sixty years, and I think of all the thousands of rejects along the way: the shots I blew learning to compose, the shots Iíve missed because I wasnít quite fast enough with the camera, the shots Iíve missed because I was set for work at a distance and the thing happened close-in. As HCB said: ďItís always luck. You just have to be receptive. Thatís all.Ē
Russ,
That's not called wasted effort...It's called gaining experience. A very important truth that one needs to grasp and relish. it's part of the journey.

Peter

Chris Kern

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2019, 04:20:47 pm »

I think of all the thousands of rejects along the way: the shots I blew learning to compose, the shots Iíve missed because I wasnít quite fast enough with the camera, the shots Iíve missed because I was set for work at a distance and the thing happened close-in.

Not to mention the uncooperative subjects who fail to do what you expect them to do, don't stay where you want them to stay, are occluded by someone else who suddenly walks between them and your camera, or notice you snapping them and decide to "help you out" by striking a pose.

Rob C

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2019, 04:41:21 pm »

Rob, you, even more than I, should know that thereís no way around wasted effort in this racket. I look at my collection of what I think are my best street shots, spread over more than sixty years, and I think of all the thousands of rejects along the way: the shots I blew learning to compose, the shots Iíve missed because I wasnít quite fast enough with the camera, the shots Iíve missed because I was set for work at a distance and the thing happened close-in. As HCB said: ďItís always luck. You just have to be receptive. Thatís all.Ē


I don't disagree: I just wish the duds could be avoided by being better and/or more perceptive at the moment of truth or, rather, that said moment happened in camera and not later on!

But then I was never a street shooter as such: my many clicks were all small changes around an idea, not the painful waiting for something outwith my control to just up, and happen; it was amazing enough when that sometimes occurred in the middle of a shoot where we thought we already knew where it was headed - more or less. But time was money, and waiting a luxury beyond reality in most cases, though even then, I did seem to have a personality that waited until the last moment before getting seriously into what I was supposed to be doing; drove my muse mad, but it worked when we could both be on the same job.

Ah, them wuz the days. I think.

:-)

RSL

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2019, 07:51:49 pm »

Not to mention the uncooperative subjects who fail to do what you expect them to do, don't stay where you want them to stay, are occluded by someone else who suddenly walks between them and your camera, or notice you snapping them and decide to "help you out" by striking a pose.

Right on, Chris. I can tell you've done it. It's the "striking a pose" thing that buffaloes a lot of people who think they're still doing street photography once the subject realizes you're actually shooting a picture.

Ah well. . .

John R

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2019, 10:33:25 pm »

How about this?  Disrespectful?


I think the image is quite good. The tonality is expressive in itself. Lots of contrast between darks and lights that gives the environment a certain look even though it is almost shadowless. The empty store shelves and Bakery sign convey irony and are symbolic of the empty look and apparent social desolation of the man. Look at his clothes. His face and demeanor just reinforce the harsh reality of his situation. I can't understand why his face is an issue. It is part of his condition. Can you crop? Sure. But watch you don't strip the image of its good qualities or alter the focus to something other than his situation. IMHO.

For me, showing respect is not a rule, just a general feeling to not take advantage of people's unfortunate circumstances for the sake of a photograph. 95% or more of what I see on the internet that tries to pass as "street" photography, just looks like random and often chaotic snapshots; And many are aggressive and unnecessarily provocative and mean. Not very good photography, let alone good "street."

JR
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2019, 04:17:24 am »

It started to call a photo of two nice girls on a Mac potentially subject of prosecution and now we are at child abuse?

Their attractiveness tells you nothing about how nice they might be. Perhaps they're looking with approval at the stock photo to which Oscar posted a link.

Jeremy
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2019, 04:18:30 am »

That is a very disrespectful image.

Why? Lacking in respect to whom?

Jeremy
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Ivophoto

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2019, 04:22:53 am »

Their attractiveness tells you nothing about how nice they might be. Perhaps they're looking with approval at the stock photo to which Oscar posted a link.

Jeremy

Fair point, this is a shortcoming of a single photo. And for the same it is the so honored ambiguity.
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elliot_n

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2019, 05:40:16 am »

Rob, that's some of the most honest, helpful criticism I've received. Thank you. 
I'll get back to work on this image with your suggestions top of mind.

I assume that you're joking (?) Or perhaps Rob was joking (?)

The relationship in your image between the man, the cat and the 'bakery' sign couldn't be clearer.
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petermfiore

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2019, 07:20:02 am »

 
Hi All,

After a good look and over time, I'm thinking looks like Gray scruffy beard.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 09:02:07 am by petermfiore »
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Rob C

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2019, 08:00:58 am »

I assume that you're joking (?) Or perhaps Rob was joking (?)

The relationship in your image between the man, the cat and the 'bakery' sign couldn't be clearer.

Which proves that ambiguity matters.

;-)

OmerV

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Re: Respect for subjects and society.
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2019, 08:26:38 am »

Why? Lacking in respect to whom?

Jeremy

Technically, to anyone who was, and might now be reminded of the hatred their kind was subjected to by the Nazi. Of course facsimiles of hatred will have degrees of effect. But this kind of imagery should not be censored or hidden away for the sake of respect.

My reply to opgr was an attempt at irony. Or something.
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