IQ4 150 first thoughts (and about that battery life!)

[DaveRosenthal]

Well, I've had my IQ4/150 for a few days now (coming from a IQ3/100) and I thought I would post my first thoughts for everyone interested. Rather than a big narrative, I'll just make some lists.

The good:
- The new interface (swipe in from the sides for stuff) works very well and UI responsiveness is greatly improved everywhere.
- High ISO noise. Looks to be ~1-1.5 stops better than IQ3--a great advance.
- Shooting speed is faster. Probably very helpful for a portrait session.
- The resolution increase is meaningful. Yes, 150MP is only a 22% increase in linear resolution, but you can crop tighter, etc. and good lenses still render pixel-sharp results so we are nowhere close to done with resolution improvements. I made a 4:3 vertical crop of a horizontal photo and still had 84 MP to work with for an awesome print
- Live preview is completely next level (fast; focus peaking; raw histogram/clipping indication; 1:1 zoom is actually sharp)
- Image review is amazing (quite fast; zoom shows "actual pixels" from the raw file; can zoom in far e.g. 800%)
- The rear LCD is color managed and with "capture one inside" you really see what the photo you just captured will look like on the computer.
- Charges from USB-C at 5V/2.4A (~12 watts).

Minor issues:
- Power sharing between camera and back is not working yet
- Various little bugs in the super early 1.0 firmware
- Non-linear battery percentage. Seems like it holds at 95%+ for a while, then drops much faster.
- Only charges from USB-C if the camera is "on" (pulls 5V/2.4A), so I'll need to do the battery shuffle rather than just plug it in when I get home. (Was really hoping this ability would be enabled with IQ4.)
- I'm seeing a *tiny* bit of banding. I'm talking about shooting ISO 1600 then pushing 3 stops and looking in the shadows to see barely detectable amounts, but still, I never saw banding in my IQ3 files.

The ugly (as of firmware 1.00.2):
- Boot time is 19-20 seconds.
- As I understand it (I use XF) some tech cam workflows still aren't enabled yet (e.g. shutter sync).
- Battery life: OK, this is scary for those of us who work untethered. Here's the test I did: I put a fresh battery in the IQ4 back, turned it on, and did nothing else (no WIFI, etc.). After 20 minutes my thermal camera measured the outside of it at 47C! Internal temperatures were as high 59C (for the "SYSMON PS"). During this most boring of tests, it drained a brand new, 100% charged, 3400mAh battery in only 1h:55m (!). Again, this is just sitting there with the screen off--no photos taken. This implies an idle power consumption of 12.8 (!!!) watts. This is well over an order of magnitude more power draw than a comparable ARM/linux device like a tablet. I am seriously crossing my fingers something can be done about this in a firmware update. Until then I will pack copious batteries, set a super-aggressive power off timeout, and get used to that boot sequence...

Overall, it is meeting my high expectations as an upgrade from the IQ3/100 save the battery life issue. I am really looking forward to all of the updates that I think they will be able to push to this camera over time. I few that I would really love:

- Automated focus trim (rather than the current assist tool): Just let me point the camera at a target and press a button!
- Live view auto focus: Let me touch a point during live preview and get a really good focus (for landscape-from-tripod use case so fine if it's kind of slow).
- Sync photos on camera's memory card to USB-C SSD with an option to either clone camera state incrementally (rsync), or just dump photos and remove them from the internal card.
- Post-capture focus mask: Right after I take a photo, I want a *quick* way to tell if I hit focus--a two-level focus mask (1:roughly in focus, 2:critically sharp) would be amazing. Bonus points for having it overlay only when I hold down a button or on-screen icon.

Let me know if you guys have any questions, and I'm curious to hear what features you all would like to see roll out in future IQ4 firmwares.

Best,
Dave

[BernardLanguillier]

Thanks for the report.

I find it a bit sad to see that P1 is now following the terrible example of Hasselblad in terms of releasing to the market cameras that are far from ready with very significant issues...

Cheers,
Bernard

[DaveRosenthal]

I find it a bit sad to see that P1 is now following the terrible example of Hasselblad in terms of releasing to the market cameras that are far from ready with very significant issues...

Bernard, I get that sentiment, and while I have no personal experience with Hasselblad, the tradeoff of when to ship a product is always interesting. The calculus for hardware and software is very different: You release hardware when it is perfect; you release software when it is net positive vs. the alternative and then improve it from there. With cameras like the IQ4 being highly software driven, I can understand the decision that Phase is making. I would always prefer no issues, but am actually happy to make the trade given that I have an amazing new camera in time for an upcoming trip. Finally, because Phase provides excellent support via their dealers, you can always get help if an early issue causes too many troubles.

All that said, I really hope the power consumption is not fundamental to the hardware!

[Paul2660]

Thanks for the info.

I still find it a bit disconcerting that P1 still can't make a back that can turn on and be available in 2 to 3 seconds.  Fuji figured out how to make the 50Mp Sony chip come on and be available instantly, unlike the IQ250/350. 

I realize that P1 goes through a lot on boot, and now they claim the software in the IQ4 is equivalent or more than a modern iPad, and is I believe Linux based? But you can turn on an iPad in 1 second. 

Needing the back to be available in a faster time frame is important, but the points you have made about overall power consumption are even more interesting.  P1 should be able to get someone to make a 5000K or larger milliamp battery that fits in the current opening of the back.  Maybe with more firmware updates, the power consumption can be better controller.  The overall heat being generated probably not, and again that also is concerning for overall image quality.

Paul C

[Christopher]

Not really true even my new iPad Pro takes a while to boot.

I never had a problem that the IQ3100 took to long. Especially as the stand by mode worked great.

The IQ4 certainly takes a little longer, but I will have to see in longer usage if it really is annoys me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paul2660]

Well, good point as most times I never turn off an iPhone or iPad, thus it's not really booting up.  But points to same problem that power consumption limits a similar type of use with a P1 back, i.e. sleep and instant on.  You basically never really turn off any iOS device, unless you have a problem (I never do), they just go to sleep.

I am sure the good out weighs the bad for those who have made the upgrade.  Image quality for sure seems improved. 

Paul C

[DaveRosenthal]

Thanks for the info.

I still find it a bit disconcerting that P1 still can't make a back that can turn on and be available in 2 to 3 seconds.  Fuji figured out how to make the 50Mp Sony chip come on and be available instantly, unlike the IQ250/350. 

I realize that P1 goes through a lot on boot, and now they claim the software in the IQ4 is equivalent or more than a modern iPad, and is I believe Linux based? But you can turn on an iPad in 1 second. 

Needing the back to be available in a faster time frame is important, but the points you have made about overall power consumption are even more interesting.  P1 should be able to get someone to make a 5000K or larger milliamp battery that fits in the current opening of the back.  Maybe with more firmware updates, the power consumption can be better controller.  The overall heat being generated probably not, and again that also is concerning for overall image quality.

Paul C

I wouldn’t mind an initial 20 second boot if the back could idle for a day and use 20% of it’s battery life. This would be like an iPad. If that’s not achievable, maybe there is a “standby” mode the back could enter than had some useful combination of wake time and power consumption. (Say, less than 2 seconds to wake and more than 2 days of standby time.)

Regarding heat, well, anything than fixes power consumption will of course also fix the heat. But I don’t think the heat I was measuring is an issue for performance other than dark current noise affecting very long exposures.

[Tadmor]

Dave, I have been using the IQ4 150 for a few days and find your first thoughts accurate; there are indeed glitches (actually, a few that I could have added to your list) but I think it’s a great product with great potential. 

I also agree that the main issue is battery life and share your strong feeling that this should be solved.  I would add, though, that with the IQ4 you can use an external power bank, of the kind used to charge cell phones and iPads.  On the downside, it's not great when using the camera handheld, and this I really don’t like; but on the upside, I find it reassuring that you no longer depend on batteries for power wherever you go.

[cgarnerhome]

I'm very concerned about the heat build up and battery life.  A lot of my exposures are in the 30sec to 240sec range.  Have either of you done long exposure testing with the IQ4 150?  If so, what has your experience been?  I'm wondering if I should delay delivery until they get some of these issues worked out.  Thanks for the info.

[Doug Peterson]

I'm very concerned about the heat build up and battery life.  A lot of my exposures are in the 30sec to 240sec range.  Have either of you done long exposure testing with the IQ4 150?  If so, what has your experience been? 

All of our long exposure tests show absolutely excellent results, without the need to wait for a dark frame after.

[eronald]

I'm very concerned about the heat build up and battery life.  A lot of my exposures are in the 30sec to 240sec range.  Have either of you done long exposure testing with the IQ4 150?  If so, what has your experience been?  I'm wondering if I should delay delivery until they get some of these issues worked out.  Thanks for the info.

Power consumption and heat are very fundamental aspects of a device operation. If the image quality is as desired -the distinguishing aspect of this product- then probably you need to be accepting of the other issues, with the added hope that things may improve later on the secondary functional aspects.

My personal feeling is that Phase are moving increasingly to providing photography for platforms where camera power consumption is secondary, eg. cultural work in studios, on site, and aerial mapping, and therefore power consumption is not really a design priority anymore. Electronic devices that are designed for low power are usually very specific designs from  the ground up.

Edmund
Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

My personal feeling is that Phase are moving increasingly to providing photography for platforms where camera power consumption is secondary, eg. cultural work in studios, on site, and aerial mapping, and therefore power consumption is not really a design priority anymore. Electronic devices that are designed for low power are usually very specific designs from  the ground up.

Just the opposite. Portability is far more important than it was in years past. The days where medium format was mostly a studio-based endeavor are literally a decade in the rearview mirror.

The Aerial line (iXA) and CH line (iXG) cameras that Phase One makes are AC powered and entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

[eronald]

Just the opposite. Portability is far more important than it was in years past. The days where medium format was mostly a studio-based endeavor are literally a decade in the rearview mirror.

The Aerial line (iXA) and CH line (iXG) cameras that Phase One makes are AC powered and entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

Doug,

 If you believe that battery performance will be improved - why do't you just say so?

Edmund

[BernardLanguillier]

Just the opposite. Portability is far more important than it was in years past. The days where medium format was mostly a studio-based endeavor are literally a decade in the rearview mirror.

Agreed... but how does the monstrous XF body fit in that picture?

Cheers,
Bernard

[cgarnerhome]

All of our long exposure tests show absolutely excellent results, without the need to wait for a dark frame after.

Thanks Doug for the feedback. Not having to wait for a dark frame is a huge time saver for me. A 20sec boot time is a pain but more than offset by the time savings of not doing a dark frame.  Since my frame of reference is the IQ3 100, how would you compare battery life of the IQ4 150 to the IQ3 100?  Also Doug, what firmware version are they on now?

[Doug Peterson]

Since my frame of reference is the IQ3 100, how would you compare battery life of the IQ4 150 to the IQ3 100?  Also Doug, what firmware version are they on now?

DT did not do any direct/controlled comparisons of battery life during our first round of IQ4 testing; we were focused on image quality of the back, and performance of various lenses at 150mp. I would expect to get into another round of IQ4 testing in the early new year and will gladly include battery life in that testing.

Firmware 1.0 is the current public firmware. Slightly newer firmware may be shipping with units off the production line this week; typically new firmware is rolled out to the production line first (since they have them in-hand and can thoroughly vet the new firmware) before they roll out that new firmware to current owners in the form of free updates.

[Doug Peterson]

Agreed... but how does the monstrous XF body fit in that picture?

As one of the many options (Arca, Cambo, Alpa, XF etc etc) that Phase One users have depending on their needs, preferences, and budgets.

The weight of an XF and IQ4 is much larger than a Sony A with kit lens (which in turn is much larger than an iPhone), and much less than an 8x10 film camera with heavy wooden tripods. Great images have been captured with all of these options, including in the middle of nowhere, on top of mountains, and in adverse weather.

Personally, I find an overemphasis on miniaturization to often to be to the determent of a camera's overall utility. For example, I love my Fuji X Pro, but I have to add a third party grip and thumb-hold to make it ergonomic for my hand. In contrast, the XF fits perfectly in my hand. Of course everyone's hands are different and everyone has a different point at which a camera is too heavy.

[eronald]

As one of the many options (Arca, Cambo, Alpa, XF etc etc) that Phase One users have depending on their needs, preferences, and budgets.

The weight of an XF and IQ4 is much larger than a Sony A with kit lens (which in turn is much larger than an iPhone), and much less than an 8x10 film camera with heavy wooden tripods. Great images have been captured with all of these options, including in the middle of nowhere, on top of mountains, and in adverse weather.

Personally, I find an overemphasis on miniaturization to often to be to the determent of a camera's overall utility. For example, I love my Fuji X Pro, but I have to add a third party grip and thumb-hold to make it ergonomic for my hand. In contrast, the XF fits perfectly in my hand. Of course everyone's hands are different and everyone has a different point at which a camera is too heavy.

Doug,

 Let me give an alternate facts reading of that: A camera can never be too high hrez, too large to impress customers, or too light a load  for one's ageing knees to schlepp it upslope - but it doesn't have to be the same camera which does all of the above

Edmund

[Doug Peterson]

...A camera can never be too high hrez, too large to impress customers, or too light a load  for one's ageing knees to schlepp it upslope - but it doesn't have to be the same camera which does all of the above

The perfect camera costs $0, folds into the size of a coin (any smaller and you might lose it), has infinite ISO range, temperature-appropriate dispensers for red wine, scotch, espresso, and neosporin, and comes with a free kit lens with an infinite zoom and f/0 max aperture. It requires no menu, no buttons, and no power; it anticipates your intentions before you have them. It summons golden hour, double rainbows, or moody storms according to your preference. It inspires confidence in anyone you point it at, even your camera-shy relatives. Owning it means models show up on time, clients drop their weird requests, and invoices are paid on time. A special mode halts or even reverses aging, and the instruction manual reveals a surefire path to living a satisfying, meaningful, and enjoyable life.

Until we have that, every camera is a compromise of physical, performance, price, and philosophical factors. Different people will prioritize those factors differently and the same person might even prioritize these factors different from one day to the next, and that's not only okay, that's awesome.

[eronald]

The perfect camera costs $0, folds into the size of a coin (any smaller and you might lose it), has infinite ISO range, temperature-appropriate dispensers for red wine, scotch, espresso, and neosporin, and comes with a free kit lens with an infinite zoom and f/0 max aperture. It requires no menu, no buttons, and no power; it anticipates your intentions before you have them. It summons golden hour, double rainbows, or moody storms according to your preference. It inspires confidence in anyone you point it at, even your camera-shy relatives. Owning it means models show up on time, clients drop their weird requests, and invoices are paid on time. A special mode halts or even reverses aging, and the instruction manual reveals a surefire path to living a satisfying, meaningful, and enjoyable life.

Until we have that, every camera is a compromise of physical, performance, price, and philosophical factors. Different people will prioritize those factors differently and the same person might even prioritize these factors different from one day to the next, and that's not only okay, that's awesome.

Now you're talking!

How are your book sales going?


Edmund