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Author Topic: A lack of civility...  (Read 8834 times)

faberryman

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2018, 09:36:20 am »

Being a good photographer and being a good photography critic are two different skill sets. The latter is not predicated on the former. It's a specious argument. Likewise, confidence in one's work and the quality of said work are often completely unrelated. We all know people who produce and display mediocre work and are quite smug about it. Some even anoint themselves as experts.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 10:57:09 am by faberryman »
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Rob C

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2018, 10:31:38 am »


At one time in the U.S. you had to own property to vote.  That way people who had nothing to lose couldn't keep voting for politicians who were generous with other people's money.


Kent in SD


That made damned good sense.

We have several parties in the UK with that inclination: generosity with the money of others.

I'd go one further, and say that a minimum, measured level of education should be mandatory if you want to vote. It could both encourage people to pay attention in school and thus get the right to vote and, incidentally perhaps, a better chance at a better job. Win all round for the individual, and a worthwhile instance of carrot on stick.

Based on what logic would the vote of a guy with a straw hanging out of his ear and a match from his lips be as valuably valid as that of an architect or lawyer? (In my innocence, I assume neither of the latter two types are given to getting themselves rolled in the hay - at least not just before voting.) Perhaps another class of person that might justifiably be denied a vote would be the politician: he or she is the last group that I would trust with my wallet; I feel I'd have more chance of getting it back intact from our friend with the straw. Unfortunately for my thesis, there are as many over-educated nutters as of any other kind.

;-)

jeremyrh

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2018, 11:46:13 am »


That made damned good sense.

Well remember we tried it ourselves, in Northern Ireland. Didn’t work out too well.

But we tread on forbidden ground ...
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Alan Klein

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2018, 11:47:03 am »

You are clear. And I don’t necessarily disagree.

What I want to explain is this:

By measuring the work of your critics and adopt your willingness to accept advise accordingly, you are indirectly limited in your learning curve to your level of understanding.

It’s not black and white, you do have a point to a certain extent, only I would be careful in judging the work of my critics. Maybe I am at a point they’ve forgotten already a long time.

Which me reminds of the joke about Jack and his new girlfrioend.

So Jack meets his friend, Bill, and ask him what he thinks of her.

An Bill tells him him that it's up to Jack because it's Jack's girlfriend.

Jack responds saying that No, it's only important what YOU think of her.

Ivophoto

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2018, 11:59:57 am »

Which me reminds of the joke about Jack and his new girlfrioend.

So Jack meets his friend, Bill, and ask him what he thinks of her.

An Bill tells him him that it's up to Jack because it's Jack's girlfriend.

Jack responds saying that No, it's only important what YOU think of her.


Well, if I would have listened to my mother what she said about my first girlfriend, I would have saved big bucks In avoiding a divorce. .

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Alan Klein

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2018, 12:02:04 pm »

You are missing out on a lot of good advice.
How do I know I'm getting good advice?  Is that how I should pick a surgeon? Just listen to every Tom, Dick or Harry who has an opinion.  Where's the discernment?   If he's a curator or gallery owner, and can't shoot worth a damn, well OK.  At least he has business sense in knowing what sells even if it doesn't fit my own aesthetic style.

But to listen to someone who's still shooting snapshots that he's afraid to post on the internet, and change the way I shoot based on his advise?  Don't get me wrong.  He may be giving good advice.  But how to I know it's good advice?  He doesn't tell me his name, goes by the name "Smartshot", doesn;t tell me where he lives, doesn't tell me how long he;s been shooting, doesn;t show me samples of his work.  I'd be better off asking him what surgeon I should use rather than about my photo techniques.   Then he tells me to switch to manual control and the new mirrorless camera if I want to be a better photographer. Well, Duh.   And I should follow his advice and spend money and time retraining myself?  I'd rather do surgery on myself.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2018, 12:04:04 pm »


Well, if I would have listened to my mother what she said about my first girlfriend, I would have saved big bucks In avoiding a divorce. .


You know what the say about your photo work.  If you want to know how great it is, ask your mother.  :)

faberryman

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2018, 12:05:54 pm »

How do I know I'm getting good advice?  Is that how I should pick a surgeon? Just listen to every Tom, Dick or Harry who has an opinion.  Where's the discernment?   If he's a curator or gallery owner, and can't shoot worth a damn, well OK.  At least he has business sense in knowing what sells even if it doesn't fit my own aesthetic style.

But to listen to someone who's still shooting snapshots that he's afraid to post on the internet, and change the way I shoot based on his advise?  Don't get me wrong.  He may be giving good advice.  But how to I know it's good advice?  He doesn't tell me his name, goes by the name "Smartshot", doesn;t tell me where he lives, doesn't tell me how long he;s been shooting, doesn;t show me samples of his work.  I'd be better off asking him what surgeon I should use rather than about my photo techniques.   Then he tells me to switch to manual control and the new mirrorless camera if I want to be a better photographer. Well, Duh.   And I should follow his advice and spend money and time retraining myself?  I'd rather do surgery on myself.  :)
I'd judge him on the quality of the advice given rather than on the quality of his photographs. You should be able to discern that on your own without reference to his work. As for advice from a gallery owner, do you ask your barber to give you a trendy haircut?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 12:10:05 pm by faberryman »
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stamper

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2018, 12:10:15 pm »

I'd judge him on the quality of the advice given rather than on the quality of his photographs.

How do you judge that quality if there isn't anything  else to back up the words?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 12:25:20 pm by stamper »
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faberryman

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2018, 12:14:32 pm »

How do you judge that quality if there isn't any else to back up the words?
You must have little confidence in your own judgment if you are only relying on resumes.
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rabanito

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2018, 12:16:48 pm »

I'd judge him on the quality of the advice given rather than on the quality of his photographs. You should be able to discern that on your own without reference to his work.
Right
I don't care much for the pics of Robert Adams, for example (I know, I am an ignoramus)
But I read his essays and they make sense to me
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Alan Klein

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2018, 12:17:58 pm »

I'd judge him on the quality of the advice given rather than on the quality of his photographs. You should be able to discern that on your own without reference to his work. As for advice from a gallery owner, do you ask your barber to give you a trendy haircut?
Check out my avatar picture to know the answer there. :)

stamper

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2018, 12:24:10 pm »

You must have little confidence in your own judgment if you are only relying on resumes.

I have confidence in my judgement but then again it probably isn't the best in the world. If someone reads a book and repeats a portion of the book without understanding it then it can be misleading? If someone has a degree from a college then they will be worth listening to.

Alan Klein

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2018, 12:25:45 pm »

I'd judge him on the quality of the advice given rather than on the quality of his photographs. You should be able to discern that on your own without reference to his work. As for advice from a gallery owner, do you ask your barber to give you a trendy haircut?
If I look a someone's photos and they appear very well done, then I'll listen to their advice more often than from someone who shows nothing or so-so work.  Isn't that true in every endeavor?  There's so much nonsense in forums that you have to use a lot of discernment.  First off, there are sixteen opinions on every issue.  How do you prioritize the advice given?   When I go into a vegetable market, I like to sample a grape from each type before I buy.  Why buy a whole bunch, take them home, and be disappointed?

Alan Klein

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2018, 12:26:28 pm »

I have confidence in my judgement but then again it probably isn't the best in the world. If someone reads a book and repeats a portion of the book without understanding it then it can be misleading? If someone has a degree from a college then they will be worth listening to.
What if they're engineering majors?

faberryman

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2018, 12:57:48 pm »

If I look a someone's photos and they appear very well done, then I'll listen to their advice more often than from someone who shows nothing or so-so work.  Isn't that true in every endeavor?  There's so much nonsense in forums that you have to use a lot of discernment.  First off, there are sixteen opinions on every issue.  How do you prioritize the advice given?   When I go into a vegetable market, I like to sample a grape from each type before I buy.  Why buy a whole bunch, take them home, and be disappointed?
I suspect thatyou are not nearly as critical of their credentials when the comment is "good shot". Really, someone posts "+1" and you look up their work before accepting the compliment?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 01:25:02 pm by faberryman »
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Rob C

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2018, 01:01:35 pm »

What if they're engineering majors?

If you need some engineering done, whom better to consult?

Naturally, you wouldn't necessarily consult one about snaps, though.

That said, even people in colleges can be suspect; I recall watching Bailey say he'd burn down the art college that refused him entry when he wanted to start, because he is dyslexic and didn't have the required list of exam results. How ironic, in the event: Britains most successful photographic star not considered good enough.

:-)

Alan Klein

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2018, 01:45:17 pm »

I suspect thatyou are not nearly as critical of their credentials when the comment is "good shot". Really, someone posts "+1" and you look up their work before accepting the compliment?
Compliments are nice but they're not advice. What I'm referring to is someone says to raise the temperature on the film developer two degrees and your tones will be more evenly spread out. So then you check to see their photos and there are none there. What am I supposed to do? Change my developer temperature based on with that guy said? Shouldn't I have be able to see what he's doing with his shots to make a decision what I should do first?

Ivophoto

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2018, 01:48:46 pm »

What if they're engineering majors?

Yes, I would rely on the judgment of an engineer on my pictures.


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Ivophoto

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Re: A lack of civility...
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2018, 01:50:20 pm »

Compliments are nice but they're not advice. What I'm referring to is someone says to raise the temperature on the film developer two degrees and your tones will be more evenly spread out. So then you check to see their photos and there are none there. What am I supposed to do? Change my developer temperature based on with that guy said? Shouldn't I have be able to see what he's doing with his shots to make a decision what I should do first?

You could try it. If you never ever want to take a risk to get disappointed, you miss a lot.
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